How much clinching is excessive? What is the distinction with inside fighting?

When should initiating clinching/holding warrant a point deduction? What is the distinction between clinching and inside fighting? Should it ever result in a disqualification?

A point was deducted from Andre Berto in his fight with Luis Collazo for clinching twenty times. Andre Dirrell had a point deducted for clinching thirty five times against Carl Froch.

Here is a video showing Devon Alexander initiating clinching a total of 119 times during his ten-round fight with Maidana. No points were deducted from Devon Alexander.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4If7v...dbFUAAAAAAAAAA

Below is a video showing Andre Ward clinching in his fight against Mikkel Kessler. It argues that fifteen clinches should warrant a point deduction and thirty clinches should warrant a second point deduction. Andre Ward clinched eighty-eight total times against Mikkel Kessler without a point deduction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDEBCoaR_lU&context=C3a5563fADOEgsToPDskI5 6H7Uk5dGvkldP-DpOepu

Boxers with a well-documented propensity toward clinching are: Andre Berto, Bernard Hopkins, Andre Ward, Shane Mosley etc.

good thread mate

i think dirrell was very negative and deserved deductions

the ward kessler fight was shocking that no points were deducted considering the clinching and headbutting

people will disagree with me on this but boxing is entertainment and fighters with unentertaining styles should be punished

:)

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Originally Posted by erics44

good thread mate

i think dirrell was very negative and deserved deductions

the ward kessler fight was shocking that no points were deducted considering the clinching and headbutting

people will disagree with me on this but boxing is entertainment and fighters with unentertaining styles should be punished

:)

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:lolhaha:. I agree that clinching leads to boring boxing.

However, in-fighting does not lead to boring boxing. There's a difference.

When I watched the Maidana vs. Alexander fight, I was so pissed off that I had to make a video about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8v6s7D6sE8

I think that's the video, although I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by erics44

good thread mate

i think dirrell was very negative and deserved deductions

the ward kessler fight was shocking that no points were deducted considering the clinching and headbutting

people will disagree with me on this but boxing is entertainment and fighters with unentertaining styles should be punished

:)

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:lolhaha:. I agree that clinching leads to boring boxing.

However, in-fighting does not lead to boring boxing. There's a difference.

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I agree, a fight full of infighting can be a very entertaining fight

Quote:

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Originally Posted by erics44

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by erics44

good thread mate

i think dirrell was very negative and deserved deductions

the ward kessler fight was shocking that no points were deducted considering the clinching and headbutting

people will disagree with me on this but boxing is entertainment and fighters with unentertaining styles should be punished

:)

---

:lolhaha:. I agree that clinching leads to boring boxing.

However, in-fighting does not lead to boring boxing. There's a difference.

---

I agree, a fight full of infighting can be a very entertaining fight

---

I appreciate the compliment by the way. Sorry in advance for :gay5:.

Good question.

The distinction between clinching and inside fighting is that clinching is just holding the opponent with the odd rabbit punching and inside fighting is getting close to an opponent to land punches. Inside fighters work their way in to fight in the pocket and land hooks and uppercuts, like Joe Frazier did. Clinching is what Ruiz did, in simple terms. A lot of the time inside fighting is confused with holding and hitting, like what Ricky Hatton did a lot of.

Anybody who clinches as muchas Ricky Hatton and John Ruiz needs to be disqualified or banned from the sport..

Of course clinching is a part of the game and it can be used as a certain tactic but some fighters just clinch because they have no idea what to do on the inside.. They have no inside fighting ability so they resort to coward ass clinching when the action gets close..

Not James Toney though.. Look what he does on the inside.. He ducks, slips, catches, throws short counters and all those little tricks without doing all that coward ass clinching..

That's the difference between Toney and Bernard Hopkins... Snaggle tooth conman always clinches on the inside because he doesn't have much inside game..

Anyway, excessive clinching, clinching without reason is illegal and it's some coward ass move.. Those kind of moves are for UFC but shit has no place in Boxing..

That's why Hatton and Ruiz are two of the most boring fighters ever..

It is a good question, pretty tough to have any kind of cement rule against I figure. Sometimes fighters will sort of walk guys into a clinch sapping a lot of their energy that way and I can really appreciate the craft in it. If it's used really sparingly I don't think it's a bad tool, not everyone can be James Toney and it's inevitably going to happen in a lot of matchups.

Another issue would be whether a fighter being hurt should affect the potential for point deductions. So many great fights have seen guys on queer street hanging on for dear life many times throughout a fight. Should all of these instances be looked at as clinching in the same vein as Andre Ward and lead to more lopsided rounds? It would completely take guys out of the fight and cause some real debauchery imo.

Clinching is awful and should result in a LOT more docked points. It is a spoiling tactic and takes away from the enjoyment of a fight. Fighters should be penalized for it.

People like Alexander, Ward and Hopkins are hideous to watch and should lose several points a fight. Referees are too weak against these kinds of fighters.

Good points by all.

Holding to clear one's head shouldn't result in a point deduction. We can all agree on that, I believe. The issue becomes thornier when the fighter doing the holding does not appear to be hurt. Excessively using the tactic to slow and control the pace of the contest should warrant a point deduction. The question is where should we draw the line between strategy and excessiveness? Should ten initiated clinches by one boxer in a round be considered excessive? Is there a clean slate after each round? Should the opponent of the clincher, be required to show the referee, that he attempted to get out of the clinch, in order to have the referee take action?

Conversely, if the clinch occurs organically from the boxers' positioning and direction of punches thrown, shouldn't the fighters be permitted to fight out of it? For example, the Povetkin-Huck fight last weekend, where the Pabon too frequently broke it up as soon as the two boxers came close.

Clinching can be used as a tool effectively, but it shouldn't be used as a replacement for simply not having the ability to fight on the inside. Simple enough, right?

The referee should hardly have to step in, but in the case of the Alexander fight, points should have been docked.

I think there are cases of guys who use a clinch-hold as almost a third weapon. I have no problem with a guy clinching with one hand as long as he's using other to punch or has habit of punching out. Some of the best flurries come off a guy laying in and then busting of combos, punch and get out. Fast handed guys like Alexander and Berto come to mind as almost survivalist clinchers. They explode with one-twos and just as quick leap into a hold to break momentum or avoid return. With Berto its almost a panicky thing. Camacho became a master craftsman of clinching high and low the dude was nearly full ranked greco wrestler. Some perfected holds it and its not really a clean clinch. Hopkins can be as ugly as they come but he's a master at throw back guile and positioning to gain advantage, he'll hold an arm, turn to blindside and bang with the other hand.

Well, I have no problem with momentary clinching. Clinch and then move, pop some shots on your way out if you can. You shouldn't be holding on for dear life every time you fight anybody that has a decent inside game. The ref shouldn't even have to tell you to break it up.

Isn't this exactly why the ref has discretion. He has to make a judgement call as to weather or not the clinching is in fact excessive holding or not.

I don't agree that excessive holding should be allowed as a tactic to recover from a blow. Boxing is not the MMA.