How did he fight like ?
Who did he resemble in style ?
Is he a top 10 Venezuelan P4P ? I think that he certainly is .
What interesting / important things should I know about him ?
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How did he fight like ?
Who did he resemble in style ?
Is he a top 10 Venezuelan P4P ? I think that he certainly is .
What interesting / important things should I know about him ?
I seen like 4 or 5 of his fights. And that was awhile back. I remember him being competive when he challenged Celestino Caballero for his title. I remember him going to Japan to become Interim champion. I don't recall who he beat. He became full champion when Bones Adams took the Paulie Ayala fight instead of fighting him. He lost his title in his first defense against Yoddamrong Something. They fought in Thailand. In a outside lot. It was over 100 degrees. Ortega looked like he was bothered by the heat. At least he fought like it. I remember them saying in the Caballero fight that he had never been stopped before. So I'm guessing his chin was pretty good. That's all I can remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
I wasn't aware there even was a Venezuelan P4P list
so u do not remember his style / way of fighting ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI seen like 4 or 5 of his fights. And that was awhile back. I remember him being competive when he challenged Celestino Caballero for his title. I remember him going to Japan to become Interim champion. I don't recall who he beat. He became full champion when Bones Adams took the Paulie Ayala fight instead of fighting him. He lost his title in his first defense against Yoddamrong Something. They fought in Thailand. In a outside lot. It was over 100 degrees. Ortega looked like he was bothered by the heat. At least he fought like it. I remember them saying in the Caballero fight that he had never been stopped before. So I'm guessing his chin was pretty good. That's all I can remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
I wasn't aware there even was a Venezuelan P4P list
how do i get his fights ? or r they lost 2 time ?
My current Venezuelan p4p list reproduced (I have it listed but i change from time 2 time as i watch more fights , read more facts and become aware of more in4mation) :
1. "Leo" Gamez
2. Yober Ortega
3. Jesus Rojas
4. Antonio Cermeno
5. Israel Contreras
6. Alimi Goitia
7. Alexander Munoz
8. Betulio Gonzalez
9. Eloy Rojas
10. Bernardo Pinango
11. Edwin Valero
12. Cruz Marcano
13. Antonio Esparragoza
14. Jose Rojas
15. Alfredo Marcano
16. Nehomar Cermeno
17. Rafael Orono
And I could go on with this list .
Actually Venezuela is more talented per capita than Mexico so it seems .
Venezuela produces de best chins per capita , so it seems .
In de chin department it easily surpasses Mexico , Colombia and even Argentina , at least per capita . Maybe even Puerto Rico and Panama but these r arguable .
Chin-wise it is .
Come on now. Having him at number 2 is just....it's not right. Cuz he don't belong there. What the hell is he doing being above Antonio Cermeno? Cermeno not only was a 2 division champion but he made more than 5 successful defenses. One of the guys he beat was Ortega. Esparragoza and Valero are criminally low. Ortega, Jesus Rojas, Contreras and Goitia have no buisness being ahead of them. I would put Pinango ahead of them as well. Maybe Munoz. It looks like you got all the right fighters on your list. Just in all the wrong spotsQuote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrankso u do not remember his style / way of fighting ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI seen like 4 or 5 of his fights. And that was awhile back. I remember him being competive when he challenged Celestino Caballero for his title. I remember him going to Japan to become Interim champion. I don't recall who he beat. He became full champion when Bones Adams took the Paulie Ayala fight instead of fighting him. He lost his title in his first defense against Yoddamrong Something. They fought in Thailand. In a outside lot. It was over 100 degrees. Ortega looked like he was bothered by the heat. At least he fought like it. I remember them saying in the Caballero fight that he had never been stopped before. So I'm guessing his chin was pretty good. That's all I can remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
I wasn't aware there even was a Venezuelan P4P list
how do i get his fights ? or r they lost 2 time ?
My current Venezuelan p4p list reproduced (I have it listed but i change from time 2 time as i watch more fights , read more facts and become aware of more in4mation) :
1. "Leo" Gamez
2. Yober Ortega
3. Jesus Rojas
4. Antonio Cermeno
5. Israel Contreras
6. Alimi Goitia
7. Alexander Munoz
8. Betulio Gonzalez
9. Eloy Rojas
10. Bernardo Pinango
11. Edwin Valero
12. Cruz Marcano
13. Antonio Esparragoza
14. Jose Rojas
15. Alfredo Marcano
16. Nehomar Cermeno
17. Rafael Orono
And I could go on with this list .
Actually Venezuela is more talented per capita than Mexico so it seems .
Venezuela produces de best chins per capita , so it seems .
In de chin department it easily surpasses Mexico , Colombia and even Argentina , at least per capita . Maybe even Puerto Rico and Panama but these r arguable .
Chin-wise it is .
I can easily c y Cermeno can b ranked ahead of Ortega , but :Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseCome on now. Having him at number 2 is just....it's not right. Cuz he don't belong there. What the hell is he doing being above Antonio Cermeno? Cermeno not only was a 2 division champion but he made more than 5 successful defenses. One of the guys he beat was Ortega. Esparragoza and Valero are criminally low. Ortega, Jesus Rojas, Contreras and Goitia have no buisness being ahead of them. I would put Pinango ahead of them as well. Maybe Munoz. It looks like you got all the right fighters on your list. Just in all the wrong spotsQuote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrankso u do not remember his style / way of fighting ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI seen like 4 or 5 of his fights. And that was awhile back. I remember him being competive when he challenged Celestino Caballero for his title. I remember him going to Japan to become Interim champion. I don't recall who he beat. He became full champion when Bones Adams took the Paulie Ayala fight instead of fighting him. He lost his title in his first defense against Yoddamrong Something. They fought in Thailand. In a outside lot. It was over 100 degrees. Ortega looked like he was bothered by the heat. At least he fought like it. I remember them saying in the Caballero fight that he had never been stopped before. So I'm guessing his chin was pretty good. That's all I can remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
I wasn't aware there even was a Venezuelan P4P list
how do i get his fights ? or r they lost 2 time ?
My current Venezuelan p4p list reproduced (I have it listed but i change from time 2 time as i watch more fights , read more facts and become aware of more in4mation) :
1. "Leo" Gamez
2. Yober Ortega
3. Jesus Rojas
4. Antonio Cermeno
5. Israel Contreras
6. Alimi Goitia
7. Alexander Munoz
8. Betulio Gonzalez
9. Eloy Rojas
10. Bernardo Pinango
11. Edwin Valero
12. Cruz Marcano
13. Antonio Esparragoza
14. Jose Rojas
15. Alfredo Marcano
16. Nehomar Cermeno
17. Rafael Orono
And I could go on with this list .
Actually Venezuela is more talented per capita than Mexico so it seems .
Venezuela produces de best chins per capita , so it seems .
In de chin department it easily surpasses Mexico , Colombia and even Argentina , at least per capita . Maybe even Puerto Rico and Panama but these r arguable .
Chin-wise it is .
1) Ortega did better than Cermeno did against Jose Rojas
2) Ortega fought untill age 41 without getting stopped , whereas Cermeno was stopped @ 37
3) Ortega was 4 years older than Cermeno , imagine it reversed .
____ how would have their 2 fights against each other been like then ?
___ and Ortega did better against Jose Rojas despite it .
___ their 2 fights against each other were seemingly very close anyway in a way that does not prove superiority decisively
, but , ranking Cermeno ahead of Ortega is bareable .
boxrec has Alimi Goitia ahead of both Cermeno and Ortega BTW .
Goitia stopped a fair share of 4eign fighters in their own home turf .
He is de opposite of de likes of Ricardo Lopez , Yuri Arbachakov , "Khaosai Galaxy" , "Khaokor Galaxy" and most really , he was a true road warrior , and a successful 1 @ that .
1 must take in2 account de location of fights in addition 2 size , st8 and age differences .
Pinango's opposition was weaker than Ortega's and Esparragoza's was weaker than Pinango's .
Valero's opposition was weak except of de last Antonio that he fought , whom is far from gr8 anyway , de other Antonio was a 147 brought down 2 135 , no wonder that he lost .
Contreras stopped (even KOd) Luisito Espinosa and Wilfredo Vazquez after Vazquez butted him .
Now consider his losses :
he lost 2 "Khaosai" while weighing 115 , it may b possible that he was drained , do not u think ?
He lost 2 Eddie Cook while being 32 yrs old and never fought @ 118 again so he might have been drained again also in addition 2 his age .
And when he KOd Vazquez he also did it in Vazquez' weight , not @ his own .
Contreras is a guy whom had everything going against him but still managed what he did .
Not a manufactured primadonna whose career and record r frauds .
You gotta be kidding me? Ortega beat Rojas better than Cermeno did. That's your reasoning? That's gotta be one of the dumbest reasoning I ever heard. Actually I changed my mind. It's the dumbest reasoning I ever heard. Using moronic reasoning like that would mean Jose Rojas is really better than Yober Ortega. Since Rojas beat Celestino Caballero and Ortega lost to him. You not giving Cermeno much credit for beating Ortega not once but twice. So Ortega win over Rojas shouldn't mean much. And Seriously why the fuck is Jose Rojas being used as a measuring stick to determine who the better fighter was? He was bum with one fluke winQuote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrankI can easily c y Cermeno can b ranked ahead of Ortega , but :Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseCome on now. Having him at number 2 is just....it's not right. Cuz he don't belong there. What the hell is he doing being above Antonio Cermeno? Cermeno not only was a 2 division champion but he made more than 5 successful defenses. One of the guys he beat was Ortega. Esparragoza and Valero are criminally low. Ortega, Jesus Rojas, Contreras and Goitia have no buisness being ahead of them. I would put Pinango ahead of them as well. Maybe Munoz. It looks like you got all the right fighters on your list. Just in all the wrong spotsQuote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrankso u do not remember his style / way of fighting ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI seen like 4 or 5 of his fights. And that was awhile back. I remember him being competive when he challenged Celestino Caballero for his title. I remember him going to Japan to become Interim champion. I don't recall who he beat. He became full champion when Bones Adams took the Paulie Ayala fight instead of fighting him. He lost his title in his first defense against Yoddamrong Something. They fought in Thailand. In a outside lot. It was over 100 degrees. Ortega looked like he was bothered by the heat. At least he fought like it. I remember them saying in the Caballero fight that he had never been stopped before. So I'm guessing his chin was pretty good. That's all I can remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
I wasn't aware there even was a Venezuelan P4P list
how do i get his fights ? or r they lost 2 time ?
My current Venezuelan p4p list reproduced (I have it listed but i change from time 2 time as i watch more fights , read more facts and become aware of more in4mation) :
1. "Leo" Gamez
2. Yober Ortega
3. Jesus Rojas
4. Antonio Cermeno
5. Israel Contreras
6. Alimi Goitia
7. Alexander Munoz
8. Betulio Gonzalez
9. Eloy Rojas
10. Bernardo Pinango
11. Edwin Valero
12. Cruz Marcano
13. Antonio Esparragoza
14. Jose Rojas
15. Alfredo Marcano
16. Nehomar Cermeno
17. Rafael Orono
And I could go on with this list .
Actually Venezuela is more talented per capita than Mexico so it seems .
Venezuela produces de best chins per capita , so it seems .
In de chin department it easily surpasses Mexico , Colombia and even Argentina , at least per capita . Maybe even Puerto Rico and Panama but these r arguable .
Chin-wise it is .
1) Ortega did better than Cermeno did against Jose Rojas
2) Ortega fought untill age 41 without getting stopped , whereas Cermeno was stopped @ 37
3) Ortega was 4 years older than Cermeno , imagine it reversed .
____ how would have their 2 fights against each other been like then ?
___ and Ortega did better against Jose Rojas despite it .
___ their 2 fights against each other were seemingly very close anyway in a way that does not prove superiority decisively
, but , ranking Cermeno ahead of Ortega is bareable .
That was only part of my reasoning . It must count or u ignore e fact .Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseYou gotta be kidding me? Ortega beat Rojas better than Cermeno did. That's your reasoning? That's gotta be one of the dumbest reasoning I ever heard. Actually I changed my mind. It's the dumbest reasoning I ever heard. Using moronic reasoning like that would mean Jose Rojas is really better than Yober Ortega. Since Rojas beat Celestino Caballero and Ortega lost to him. You not giving Cermeno much credit for beating Ortega not once but twice. So Ortega win over Rojas shouldn't mean much. And Seriously why the fuck is Jose Rojas being used as a measuring stick to determine who the better fighter was? He was bum with one fluke winQuote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrankI can easily c y Cermeno can b ranked ahead of Ortega , but :Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseCome on now. Having him at number 2 is just....it's not right. Cuz he don't belong there. What the hell is he doing being above Antonio Cermeno? Cermeno not only was a 2 division champion but he made more than 5 successful defenses. One of the guys he beat was Ortega. Esparragoza and Valero are criminally low. Ortega, Jesus Rojas, Contreras and Goitia have no buisness being ahead of them. I would put Pinango ahead of them as well. Maybe Munoz. It looks like you got all the right fighters on your list. Just in all the wrong spotsQuote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrankso u do not remember his style / way of fighting ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI seen like 4 or 5 of his fights. And that was awhile back. I remember him being competive when he challenged Celestino Caballero for his title. I remember him going to Japan to become Interim champion. I don't recall who he beat. He became full champion when Bones Adams took the Paulie Ayala fight instead of fighting him. He lost his title in his first defense against Yoddamrong Something. They fought in Thailand. In a outside lot. It was over 100 degrees. Ortega looked like he was bothered by the heat. At least he fought like it. I remember them saying in the Caballero fight that he had never been stopped before. So I'm guessing his chin was pretty good. That's all I can remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
I wasn't aware there even was a Venezuelan P4P list
how do i get his fights ? or r they lost 2 time ?
My current Venezuelan p4p list reproduced (I have it listed but i change from time 2 time as i watch more fights , read more facts and become aware of more in4mation) :
1. "Leo" Gamez
2. Yober Ortega
3. Jesus Rojas
4. Antonio Cermeno
5. Israel Contreras
6. Alimi Goitia
7. Alexander Munoz
8. Betulio Gonzalez
9. Eloy Rojas
10. Bernardo Pinango
11. Edwin Valero
12. Cruz Marcano
13. Antonio Esparragoza
14. Jose Rojas
15. Alfredo Marcano
16. Nehomar Cermeno
17. Rafael Orono
And I could go on with this list .
Actually Venezuela is more talented per capita than Mexico so it seems .
Venezuela produces de best chins per capita , so it seems .
In de chin department it easily surpasses Mexico , Colombia and even Argentina , at least per capita . Maybe even Puerto Rico and Panama but these r arguable .
Chin-wise it is .
1) Ortega did better than Cermeno did against Jose Rojas
2) Ortega fought untill age 41 without getting stopped , whereas Cermeno was stopped @ 37
3) Ortega was 4 years older than Cermeno , imagine it reversed .
____ how would have their 2 fights against each other been like then ?
___ and Ortega did better against Jose Rojas despite it .
___ their 2 fights against each other were seemingly very close anyway in a way that does not prove superiority decisively
, but , ranking Cermeno ahead of Ortega is bareable .
But Jose Rojas got stopped 2 times 2 Ortega's 0 despite not fighting 2 Ortega's age and anyway Ortega KOd him so if anything de internal r8ing of Ortega , Caballero , Rojas is :
1. Ortega
2. Rojas
3. Caballero
clearly as Ortega got a KO and was not stopped , Rojas got a KO but got KOd and Caballero got KOd and only got a decision win .
So by my reasoning Ortega ranks clearly above Rojas .
Any common opponent can b used as a measure .
Actually notice this : Oleg Maskaev did better than Tua against all of their mutual opponents :
Rahman , Hawkins , Wooden .
But , Tua stopped Maskaev and no1 stopped Tua as a pro so Tua still ranks higher .
Again , my reasoning .
Back 2 Ortega or Cermeno , notice that i used multiple reasons and not just their outcomes against 1 mutual opponent .
And if u look deeper at Rojas' (and his recursive opponents') resume , u may find that he was not a bum .