Printable View
I understand 220 pound Ali would beat Marciano on reach and quickness and ability to absorb punishment,but a scaled down Cassius who had less power and abilty to absorb punishment at a light heavyweight level who wins this.....In an even realistic weight class?
I'll be first here....Marciano to me no doubt wins this..Ali lacked power as a heavyweight so I see Marciano eventually wearing down Cassius and getting the K.O and finishing him unlike Cassius narrow escape with 185 pound cooper.
Marciano beats every heavyweight in history in any era because hes undefeated and he never fought guys past their prime...yeah right.
Rocky could never hang with ali or tyson in their primes.
Rocky was a great heavyweight/crusierweight but not in my top 5 and many others.
Agreed but that's not the topic....Cassius 190 vs Marciano 185...nothing to do with Tyson or anybody else.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Tyson always pops up somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuGGERNAUT666Agreed but that's not the topic....Cassius 190 vs Marciano 185...nothing to do with Tyson or anybody else.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
The Lower the weight the more of an advantage for rocky.
Which is the point of the topic..to make a fair fight...Cassius has wins like Marciano with light HW/Cruiserweights here,but Marciano clearly has the durability and power advantage.Cassius extremely quick hands /feet but will that be enough to hold off Marciano?Its a toss up ,but Marciano I give the edge on sheer guts and catches Ali late.Marciano was also a stronger fighter as the fight went longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by impTyson always pops up somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuGGERNAUT666Agreed but that's not the topic....Cassius 190 vs Marciano 185...nothing to do with Tyson or anybody else.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
The Lower the weight the more of an advantage for rocky.
Which fights did Ali weigh 190lb? I would go with Ali as he may have been inexperienced but he had a resilliance that I have never seen in any other fighter. He found a way to win or carry on fighting when most would quit.
exact same thing can be said for Rocky ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
This a classic boxer v brawler contest,! Rocky crude strong iron chin, Clay speed slicker than snot on
a door nob, also a chin of iron.!
Hard to pick this one, I'm going to sit on the fence with this one Steve.
Ali's best weight wasn't 220 lbs. At 220 or more, he was out of shape.
Neither 190 lbs 'cept at maybe 19 years old.
A prime Muhammad Ali was 212 lbs at 6'2½".
A prime Marciano was anywhere between 184 and 189 lbs at 5'10¾".
Marciano trained himself down to a supremely conditioned 185, but this burly guy was naturally well over 200 lbs. 45 year old Marciano dropped 50 lbs for that computer simulation bout with Ali in 1969.
Heavyweights trained off the fat back then because they had to be prepared to go 15 rds, and they wanted the speed and endurance. Many current Heavyweights are carrying way too much fat.
Both had terrific chins.
Marciano had a much harder punch, Ali was faster.
Marciano bled, I believe Ali was only cut once in his career, against light-Heavyweight Champ Bob Foster.
In their primes, both had incredible stamina and endurance.
Concerning weight and size:
5'11", 205 lb Frazier gave Ali hell, and even defeated him the 1st fight.
185 lb Henry Cooper knocked down Ali with a hellacious left hook.
Some thought 188 lb Doug Jones should have got the decision over Ali.
191 lb Sonny Banks knocked down Ali also with a left hook.
Some of these smaller guys gave Ali more trouble than Foreman and Liston did.
Marciano should never be discounted nor his abilities disrespected; he was a Great fighter.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
The thing you need to factor in is the extreme technical influence in boxing training now.
Fighters are stronger now I believe than they were back then, boxer can train muscles that Marciano never knew he had.
There's a huge list of people I have beating Rocky now.
K2
Foreman ( old and young )
Lewis
Briggs
Bruno
Tyson
Holyfield
Haye
Valuev
Ali
Size is the main issue against him.
Was he ever hit by a Klitschko straight right for 12 rounds? Could he take a fight full of Tyson right body hooks? Would he have even got close enough to Valuev to hit him once?
Hardly.
That said, some of them would have probably beaten Ali also.
bradley; has it pretty close as to size! first off Frazier was about 5'10" 1/2 at the most!! Ali was 6'3" and his best was 210-215 above that as he got older they needed to load up alot more with fluids because they couldn't maintain their conditioning fighting once a year compared to be active as they were as they came up!!
Te idea that Marciano had muscles he never knew he had is ridiculous (no offense) but that guy was ripped!!! Look at stills or videos and you'll see muscle and striations and this guy was NOT SMALL!
I stood next to guys like Marciano & Dempsey these men had thickness and structure that guys who are 6'4" 235lbs today simply don't have!!
He punched much harder at 190 than Wlad does at 240lbs because leverage and balance is applied but he was BORN with that natural power which always translates to punching power more than lifting weights !!!!!! The other thing that is never considered by the younger fans is Marcianos desire to win. He was a mean guy in the ring and to think that David Haye could defeat him is a joke!
To much attention is placed on size and not enough is placed on each fighters individuals skills!
Marciano was a highly skilled pressure fighter who started figuring distances and tendencies immediately!! david Haye would be pissing in his trunks at the end of the second round against Marciano, at ANY weight! Gtting hit by Rocky isn't like getting hit by an average "cruiserweight" getting hit by Marciano HURT! Go listen to Ali's interview about the filming of the computer bout. He wasn't being respectfull or smug he was dead honest!
If you take away a fighters record and height & weight the average boxing fan has nothing to comment on! Try learning to evaluate a fighters jab! Then go to the right hand and on to combinations then balance then defensive options and on & on.........................not who they fought and did that guy do well against the other guy...thats BS! These oversized guys today would get chopped down against yester years pressure guys. What do they do when Marciano slips under and comes up PUNCHING!! Do you think that Wlad KO's Rock in one? hahahaha the guy fought on with his nose hanging off his face!!!!!
Every era of fan thinks their era is better than any other as if their age group is superior to others hahahaha its as if they think their presence enhances the era!!!!! hahaha!!!
Marciano is a Champion and a top contender in any era!!! I don't believe he goes undefeated but thats another thread as to the importance and accompliment of being undefeated!! Ray.