Boxers who you think would NOT have been so great if not for their size

BOTH Klitschkos, Lennox Lewis, ...... come on, if these guys were even 6 foot 3 like Ali or Holmes, and had say a 79 or 80 inch reach only (rather than their , what, 85 inch reaches?) they wouldn't have been around even half as long as they were.

I am really starting to think that size is all that matters (90% anyway) in the heavyweight division as their is no ceiling there, no higher division they must not weigh into.

Lennox Lewis and the K brothers could block punches from a mile away just by extending their gargantuan arms forward and back peddling at the same time.

Like wise they could land overhand rights from halfway across the ring by throwing the punch and coming forward---the opponent even taking 4 steps backwards would still be on the end of the punch. Look at the punch Lennox Lewis landed on Vitali which cut his eye. He threw it from Mid-Ring and even with Vitali pulling back 3 steps in reverse the punch arched over the ring and came down about 15 feet later like a rainbow zooming in from outer space. If Lewis or Klitschkos had a standard reach of 78 inches or so, half of their punches would not have reached their target.

And as for height---goddamit, lets see most normal-sized fighters try to reach their fucking chins at 6 feet 5 and above.

These fighters would not have been shit were it not for their unusual size. Don't give me examples now of huge fighters who sucked. That will not disprove my points.

What's to say that these guys would fight the same way if they were smaller?

Big guys develop and adapt to suit their build, just like any other boxer.

I can already imagine some will argue against this thread from the start but I for one agree with the principle here.

In other weight divisions there is a tighter leash kept on the size differences between the fighters but with the heavy weights its different.

These days the small heavyweights are at a big disadvantage. Too big for cruiser weight but too small to hang with the big guys.

Mike Tyson was an exceptional small heavy weight but despite that even he had trouble when some if the bigger guys would tie him up or lean on him.

Its a tough situation.

Great now Titogirl and the other baboon will come in here and discredit every mexican fighter who ever went up 2 pounds or above their weight on fight night

Valuev


Say what you will but the Klitschkos and Lewis were athletic and powerful

Lennox Lewis was 'only' 6' 4 3/4" tall and is thought of as being a giant heavy. Yet David Haye, a 'small' heavy, is 6'3". Not much different. In fact, Lennox Lewis is closer in height to Haye then he is to either Klitschko. Lewis' height didn't make him what he was. His reach is more valid, but still, he had a dominant and at times destructive jab that plenty of people with that reach don't have.
Also, you say that half the punches he threw would have missed if he had an average reach, but as Adam alluded to above he wouldn't have been throwing shots like he had an 85 inch reach if it was only 79inch. He would have adapted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

BOTH Klitschkos, Lennox Lewis, ...... come on, if these guys were even 6 foot 3 like Ali or Holmes, and had say a 79 or 80 inch reach only (rather than their , what, 85 inch reaches?) they wouldn't have been around even half as long as they were.

I am really starting to think that size is all that matters (90% anyway) in the heavyweight division as their is no ceiling there, no higher division they must not weigh into.

Lennox Lewis and the K brothers could block punches from a mile away just by extending their gargantuan arms forward and back peddling at the same time.

Like wise they could land overhand rights from halfway across the ring by throwing the punch and coming forward---the opponent even taking 4 steps backwards would still be on the end of the punch. Look at the punch Lennox Lewis landed on Vitali which cut his eye. He threw it from Mid-Ring and even with Vitali pulling back 3 steps in reverse the punch arched over the ring and came down about 15 feet later like a rainbow zooming in from outer space. If Lewis or Klitschkos had a standard reach of 78 inches or so, half of their punches would not have reached their target.

And as for height---goddamit, lets see most normal-sized fighters try to reach their fucking chins at 6 feet 5 and above.

These fighters would not have been shit were it not for their unusual size. Don't give me examples now of huge fighters who sucked. That will not disprove my points.

---

Ill try to disprove you.



They were all stopped multiple times during their careers.
Mike Tyson was small.
Joe Fraizer

Wlad has destroyed massive fighters, yet couldn't stop Haye.
Haye owned Valuev.

Vitali has owned massive guys, couldn't stop Chisora.

Theres a mix of things.

Oliver McCall practiced like hell in training to land the right hand that KOd Lewis.

It's all about tactics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vendettos

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

BOTH Klitschkos, Lennox Lewis, ...... come on, if these guys were even 6 foot 3 like Ali or Holmes, and had say a 79 or 80 inch reach only (rather than their , what, 85 inch reaches?) they wouldn't have been around even half as long as they were.

I am really starting to think that size is all that matters (90% anyway) in the heavyweight division as their is no ceiling there, no higher division they must not weigh into.

Lennox Lewis and the K brothers could block punches from a mile away just by extending their gargantuan arms forward and back peddling at the same time.

Like wise they could land overhand rights from halfway across the ring by throwing the punch and coming forward---the opponent even taking 4 steps backwards would still be on the end of the punch. Look at the punch Lennox Lewis landed on Vitali which cut his eye. He threw it from Mid-Ring and even with Vitali pulling back 3 steps in reverse the punch arched over the ring and came down about 15 feet later like a rainbow zooming in from outer space. If Lewis or Klitschkos had a standard reach of 78 inches or so, half of their punches would not have reached their target.

And as for height---goddamit, lets see most normal-sized fighters try to reach their fucking chins at 6 feet 5 and above.

These fighters would not have been shit were it not for their unusual size. Don't give me examples now of huge fighters who sucked. That will not disprove my points.

---

Ill try to disprove you.



They were all stopped multiple times during their careers.
Mike Tyson was small.
Joe Fraizer

Wlad has destroyed massive fighters, yet couldn't stop Haye.
Haye owned Valuev.

Vitali has owned massive guys, couldn't stop Chisora.

Theres a mix of things.

Oliver McCall practiced like hell in training to land the right hand that KOd Lewis.

It's all about tactics.

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:shakehead: He barely edged him on points

1. Tony Margarito as a welterweight
2. Brandon Rios as a lightweight and junior welterweight
3. Adrian Broner as a superfeather and lightweight
4. Saul Alvarez as a junior middleweight

Forget the differences in weight divisions too...

Doesn't mean much come fight night, when one fighter has rehydrated 4lb and the other fighter has rehydrated 14lb or more...

You've got middles fighting down at Welter and light Heavyweights fighting at middleweight, at least the heavyweight division is honest about it.

Adam is dead on in both of his posts. Saying Lewis wouldn't have been dominant without his size is just as stupid as saying the same of Ivan Calderon for the most part.

The point about divisions is a crucial one to. Guys who are huge for a weight or have a size advantage on fight night anywhere below HW, do so because they are able to shed water and rehydrate more than their opponent. Everyone is different in that sense, and obviously many guys put themselves in terrible shape doing the same thing that works tremendously for others.

To me there isn't a lot which can be done about this as far as changing the weigh in times etc. Being able to cut weight while retaining power and the ilk is down to a science just like any other aspect of elite training. If some guys are better at it then that is a natural advantage just as being faster or stronger than someone is, at least the way I see it.

I say go to my proposal: you create a SuperHeavy Composite INdex based on 3 factors:

whoops I .........wait OK

1. Reach
2. Height
3. Weight

for example, if a guy is above 6'4", has more than 80 inches in reach and weighs over 225 pounds, he would be scoring into the SuperHeavy division on all 3 criteria.

if another guy is 6'7", 85 inch reach but only weighs 210, he would still---by taking the composite of the 3 criteria, qualify into the SuperHeavy division.

but if a guy is 6'2" tall, 78 inch reach and weighs 217 pounds----how the fuck is that a fiar fight against a Lewis or a Klitschko? Thats my point.

@brocktonblockbust

I understand the point fundamentally Brockton. Given two men of equal skill and intangibles the bigger man wins. When this is not the case you get the Valuev’s and Carnera’s of the world and once in awhile a guy like Foreman who imo was short on skill but found a way because of his mutant power and sheer will.

It took awhile for Wlad to get on track even with his size and skill set. One little thing like not knowing how to clinch or tie up allowed smaller less skilled guys to get to him. After years of honing his craft he now seems unbeatable albeit against a less then stellar crew of contenders. That’s where your theory may have some traction. How would these talented bigger guys do against a much better crop of smaller guys both skill wise with loads of drive and desire? We don’t have the division to test that hypothesis. Instead Mitchell will become the next challenger. And Lewis had the skill set along with above average power and he got ko’d by two people that couldn’t carry his jock strap. His size and pedigree as a fighter was trumped by his tendency to get lazy with an approach almost like a Rastafarian.

Not a hev but still applicable is Paul Williams. Here is a guy that had every physical advantage you could ask for including the same wing span as both K brothers and yet he fought as if he was 5 foot 5 with a Ricky Hatton reach.

Cool topic

We're not quite at the point where it's needed yet.

Most Smaller heavies could get down to cruiser - if you're under 225 and you can't drop a few pounds and sweat the rest out then you must be extremely lean (how many heavies look in shape now days?). There's more money and prestige at heavyweight and seeing as how most cruiser walk around well over 200lb, it's easier for them to just not bother cutting weight... It's their choice, so if their effective fighting weight is 200lb but they chose to fight guys 225+ then they can't complain.

The other point is that weight and height don't give you a godlike advantage, look at Valuev, look at Carnera, look at how Tyson made it a disadvantage to be taller than him.

You're telling me that the likes of 219lb Sultan couldn't do 200lb? http://www.eastsideboxing.com/fotos/1F2C1555.jpg

I don't think the problem is that heavies are too big, too many guys shouldn't even be in the division, which is why we get all of these mismatches.

I think brockton is just pissed because Rocky would get his ass kicked into days heavyweight division. I mean ever sense he admitted it he has had some kind of agenda against the big guys in the division. Did Tyson or Holyfeild do so poorly against big guys not really. I mean Holyfeild beat Bowie in the rematch and Took Lewis in rematch to a draw at the very least and he was like fucking 37 years of age. If being big was such a advantage then how come Vitali, Wlad and Lewis are the only champs you can think of who were huge and good at boxing. There are plenty of big guys now yet not one is even close to those guys you know why there not because they are not as skilled in boxing being big can work against you to. I mean you lose speed and in the inside it can be rough for you with long arms but the guys i mention have worked on it because there great heavys.