Vs philly shell

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11-24-2013, 08:05 PM
hma123

Vs philly shell

Im looking to innovate and learn correctly how to approach someone who uses the philly shell/crab w.e you want to call it........a lot of people ask how to use it effectively but I dont see much on how to beat it!

Anyone have specific fights on a fighter using this style stance and it back firing on him? Also what do yous like to do when sparring someone w. the mayweather look?
11-24-2013, 08:07 PM
boyla

Re: Vs philly shell

Make them lead or double, triple up on the jab.
11-24-2013, 08:10 PM
hma123

Re: Vs philly shell

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyla

Make them lead or double, triple up on the jab.

Why this?
11-24-2013, 08:49 PM
greynotsoold

Re: Vs philly shell

Do you know how and why it works? Let's start there. the whole thing starts with your left (front) leg and hip rotating inward. This puts your shoulder and hip well forward and this is important, in that it reduces the portion of your body vulnerable to right hands (legally) and you can protect that with the upper part of your left arm. And you can now use your left shoulder to block right hands aimed at your head, dipping your head down when they try to loop it over.
With your body angled like that, you drop your left arm across your stomach and it is protected. Your right elbow and arm cover the rest of your body. Your right glove is there to catch the left jab and block the left hook and you can focus on them because his right hand is behind you. Plus, and this is a huge thing, you are in perfect position to counter because your hands are where they are supposed to be.
Think on that. Your opponent jabs, dip down, right uppercut to the body. he tries to loop a right hand over your left shoulder, dip in and bring the right uppercut to his solar plexus or chin. Left hook to your body? Roll inside it and right uppercut to the chin. Finish with a left hook and you are back in the shell. and you can do this because your feet are under you as well.
You can fight this style coming forward- watch Ike williams, off the top of my head, and the clip of Charley burley that exists. the jab is then coming from the feet, not the arms, and everything becomes a counter, not an effort to throw more punches than the other guy and hope they land.
there is no combination that exists that works- every one of them may work sometimes, you know? Triple your jab? Why would I care? if it starts to annoy me, I'll get under it and bring the right uppercut into your ribs, or parry it and stuff you with a straight left hand off my back foot. throw a ton of punches, I'll roll inside and pick my spots to light you up with three and four punch bursts. it is a very effective way to fight and it is neglected now because a stunning percentage of boxing teachers don't know much about boxing.
It works on a simple theory. Every time you throw a punch, you leave a place where I can hit you. It is much easier on my to lay back, let you come to me and then create those openings for me. I'm banking on the fact that you don't know how to pass time in a boxing ring other than by throwing punches. If your whole idea of being busy in the ring is to throw punches, I'll beat you every time. And in there is the key of how to beat a guy fighting in the manner you described.
11-25-2013, 07:24 PM
cnote111

Re: Vs philly shell

Quote:

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

Do you know how and why it works? Let's start there. the whole thing starts with your left (front) leg and hip rotating inward. This puts your shoulder and hip well forward and this is important, in that it reduces the portion of your body vulnerable to right hands (legally) and you can protect that with the upper part of your left arm. And you can now use your left shoulder to block right hands aimed at your head, dipping your head down when they try to loop it over.
With your body angled like that, you drop your left arm across your stomach and it is protected. Your right elbow and arm cover the rest of your body. Your right glove is there to catch the left jab and block the left hook and you can focus on them because his right hand is behind you. Plus, and this is a huge thing, you are in perfect position to counter because your hands are where they are supposed to be.
Think on that. Your opponent jabs, dip down, right uppercut to the body. he tries to loop a right hand over your left shoulder, dip in and bring the right uppercut to his solar plexus or chin. Left hook to your body? Roll inside it and right uppercut to the chin. Finish with a left hook and you are back in the shell. and you can do this because your feet are under you as well.
You can fight this style coming forward- watch Ike williams, off the top of my head, and the clip of Charley burley that exists. the jab is then coming from the feet, not the arms, and everything becomes a counter, not an effort to throw more punches than the other guy and hope they land.
there is no combination that exists that works- every one of them may work sometimes, you know? Triple your jab? Why would I care? if it starts to annoy me, I'll get under it and bring the right uppercut into your ribs, or parry it and stuff you with a straight left hand off my back foot. throw a ton of punches, I'll roll inside and pick my spots to light you up with three and four punch bursts. it is a very effective way to fight and it is neglected now because a stunning percentage of boxing teachers don't know much about boxing.
It works on a simple theory. Every time you throw a punch, you leave a place where I can hit you. It is much easier on my to lay back, let you come to me and then create those openings for me. I'm banking on the fact that you don't know how to pass time in a boxing ring other than by throwing punches. If your whole idea of being busy in the ring is to throw punches, I'll beat you every time. And in there is the key of how to beat a guy fighting in the manner you described.

Extremely informative! - So, if your opponent is utilizing the Philly Shell and is extremely versed in its execution. Am I correct in saying that you need to counter his counters. Get him to bite on feints and ploys to create your own openings because there are none when you throw meaningless punches just to stay busy. Its not about throwing a specific punch or combination, its about getting him to leave his shell. Is that close?
11-26-2013, 07:11 PM
greynotsoold

Re: Vs philly shell

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnote111

Quote:

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

Do you know how and why it works? Let's start there. the whole thing starts with your left (front) leg and hip rotating inward. This puts your shoulder and hip well forward and this is important, in that it reduces the portion of your body vulnerable to right hands (legally) and you can protect that with the upper part of your left arm. And you can now use your left shoulder to block right hands aimed at your head, dipping your head down when they try to loop it over.
With your body angled like that, you drop your left arm across your stomach and it is protected. Your right elbow and arm cover the rest of your body. Your right glove is there to catch the left jab and block the left hook and you can focus on them because his right hand is behind you. Plus, and this is a huge thing, you are in perfect position to counter because your hands are where they are supposed to be.
Think on that. Your opponent jabs, dip down, right uppercut to the body. he tries to loop a right hand over your left shoulder, dip in and bring the right uppercut to his solar plexus or chin. Left hook to your body? Roll inside it and right uppercut to the chin. Finish with a left hook and you are back in the shell. and you can do this because your feet are under you as well.
You can fight this style coming forward- watch Ike williams, off the top of my head, and the clip of Charley burley that exists. the jab is then coming from the feet, not the arms, and everything becomes a counter, not an effort to throw more punches than the other guy and hope they land.
there is no combination that exists that works- every one of them may work sometimes, you know? Triple your jab? Why would I care? if it starts to annoy me, I'll get under it and bring the right uppercut into your ribs, or parry it and stuff you with a straight left hand off my back foot. throw a ton of punches, I'll roll inside and pick my spots to light you up with three and four punch bursts. it is a very effective way to fight and it is neglected now because a stunning percentage of boxing teachers don't know much about boxing.
It works on a simple theory. Every time you throw a punch, you leave a place where I can hit you. It is much easier on my to lay back, let you come to me and then create those openings for me. I'm banking on the fact that you don't know how to pass time in a boxing ring other than by throwing punches. If your whole idea of being busy in the ring is to throw punches, I'll beat you every time. And in there is the key of how to beat a guy fighting in the manner you described.

Extremely informative! - So, if your opponent is utilizing the Philly Shell and is extremely versed in its execution. Am I correct in saying that you need to counter his counters. Get him to bite on feints and ploys to create your own openings because there are none when you throw meaningless punches just to stay busy. Its not about throwing a specific punch or combination, its about getting him to leave his shell. Is that close?

Exactly right. How you do that depends on the guy you are fighting. What feints he'll bite on (and that will often depend on what punch he most wants to hit you with), how patient he is, and so on.
11-26-2013, 08:49 PM
cnote111

Re: Vs philly shell

Quote:

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnote111

Quote:

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

Do you know how and why it works? Let's start there. the whole thing starts with your left (front) leg and hip rotating inward. This puts your shoulder and hip well forward and this is important, in that it reduces the portion of your body vulnerable to right hands (legally) and you can protect that with the upper part of your left arm. And you can now use your left shoulder to block right hands aimed at your head, dipping your head down when they try to loop it over.
With your body angled like that, you drop your left arm across your stomach and it is protected. Your right elbow and arm cover the rest of your body. Your right glove is there to catch the left jab and block the left hook and you can focus on them because his right hand is behind you. Plus, and this is a huge thing, you are in perfect position to counter because your hands are where they are supposed to be.
Think on that. Your opponent jabs, dip down, right uppercut to the body. he tries to loop a right hand over your left shoulder, dip in and bring the right uppercut to his solar plexus or chin. Left hook to your body? Roll inside it and right uppercut to the chin. Finish with a left hook and you are back in the shell. and you can do this because your feet are under you as well.
You can fight this style coming forward- watch Ike williams, off the top of my head, and the clip of Charley burley that exists. the jab is then coming from the feet, not the arms, and everything becomes a counter, not an effort to throw more punches than the other guy and hope they land.
there is no combination that exists that works- every one of them may work sometimes, you know? Triple your jab? Why would I care? if it starts to annoy me, I'll get under it and bring the right uppercut into your ribs, or parry it and stuff you with a straight left hand off my back foot. throw a ton of punches, I'll roll inside and pick my spots to light you up with three and four punch bursts. it is a very effective way to fight and it is neglected now because a stunning percentage of boxing teachers don't know much about boxing.
It works on a simple theory. Every time you throw a punch, you leave a place where I can hit you. It is much easier on my to lay back, let you come to me and then create those openings for me. I'm banking on the fact that you don't know how to pass time in a boxing ring other than by throwing punches. If your whole idea of being busy in the ring is to throw punches, I'll beat you every time. And in there is the key of how to beat a guy fighting in the manner you described.

Extremely informative! - So, if your opponent is utilizing the Philly Shell and is extremely versed in its execution. Am I correct in saying that you need to counter his counters. Get him to bite on feints and ploys to create your own openings because there are none when you throw meaningless punches just to stay busy. Its not about throwing a specific punch or combination, its about getting him to leave his shell. Is that close?

Exactly right. How you do that depends on the guy you are fighting. What feints he'll bite on (and that will often depend on what punch he most wants to hit you with), how patient he is, and so on.

That's some seriously advanced shit Grey. I coach on an amateur level, and the likelihood of an amateur fighter to possess the patience, vision, and focus to pull something like that off is slim to none. None the less, that was beautiful information.
12-27-2013, 09:20 PM
cambay411

Re: Vs philly shell

Quote:

Originally Posted by hma123

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyla

Make them lead or double, triple up on the jab.

Why this?

It opens them up.
12-27-2013, 09:35 PM
cambay411

Re: Vs philly shell

OP, I think your giving the Philly to much credit. It fits some peoples style, others not so much.

What I mean is, just like a traditional stance, there are openings and ways to set people up when they are in a Philly and every fighter regardless of stance is different. In the Philly tho the kidney area in the front is left open alot of times.

Also the Philly is more of an elusive style tho it may not fit every elusive fighter or counter puncher. Some stay elusive and counter punch better in a traditional stance.

With any fighter that has a tight defense your gonna want to make then open themsleves up. Use feints to open them up and good headmovement to avoid counter punches.

Also remember that if a fighter is using the Philly right their head is off of their center line. The front shoulder is in their center line. What this does is get the head out of the way of head shots. I could write a huge paragraph about what I mean but I would rather you Google it so you can look at pictures and etc so you can more fully understand what I am trying to say.

Look up "Boxing Center Line".

I just tried looking it up and its actually hard to find info on. Here is a web site I found, I havnt read over it but I seen some pics:

http://www.sugarboxing.com/boxing-te...e-foundations/