Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko called out 34-11 guy (who has lost 2 of his last 3 fights, including a loss to an opponent who was 11-2 and 191 lbs)?
What would happen if the next world championship opponent earned his title fight by beating three bums (6-8, 13-4, 16-27)?
What would happen if Vitali Klitschko decided to call out a 37-30 opponent (bum) for his next world championship fight?
What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko decided to stage a world championship against a 197 lbs boxer who had only 7 fights (of which only 2 had been real heavyweight fights 200×2)?
Or if Wladimir Klitschko decided to lose all his muscles, go all the way down to 197 lbs and then fight another 197 lbs opponent?
Or even go down to 185 lbs to stage a world championship against another 185 lbs (who never had and never will have a single real heavyweight fight 200×2)?
Exactly such opponents and circumstances HAPPENED and are USED AS A PROOF of the GREATNESS of past eras.
Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier all fought exactly such opponents in exactly such world championship fights.
Joe Louis vs Jim Braddock (197 lbs vs 197 lbs) (world heavyweight title 1937)
Joe Louis vs Tony Musto (37-30 whole career) (World heavyweight title 1941)
Joe Louis vs Billy Conn 174 lbs (Unification(!) world heavyweight title 1937)
Rocky Marciano 184 lbs vs Roland LaStarza 185 lbs (World heavyweight title 1953)
Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks 197 lbs, 7-0 at bout, 26-17 whole career (WBA+WBC world heavyweight title 1978)
Muhammad Ali vs George Chuvalo, 34-11 at bout, coming off a loss to a 11-2, 191 lbs guy (world heavyweight title 1966)
Joe Frazier vs Dave Zyglewicz, who earned his title fight by beating Pedro Sanchez (6-8), Bob Felstein (13-4), Willie Johnson (16-27) and Levi Forte (18-19) (world heavyweight title 1969) Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks (26-17) 197 lbs (WBA world heavyweight title 1978)
or Muhammad Ali vs ·Henry Cooper (40-14) 188 lbs (World Heavyweight title 1966)
Larry Holmes vs Mike Weaver (41-18) 202 lbs (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs Ossie Ocasio (23-13) (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs David Bey (18-11) (IBF heavyweight title 1985)
The same fans and experts who declare that "Joe Louis still holds the record for most heavyweight championships won" (which includes world title opponents like mentioned above) have no problems to declare that the current heavyweight division (which excludes such title opponents like mentioned above) is weak.
The same fans who complain about a "dire Klitschko era" have no problem to declare Ali's era to be "The golden Age", yet half of Ali's opponents wouldn't be allowed nowadays or would be a proof of how Klitschko sucks.
The same experts who calculated that "Rocky Marciano is the heavyweight champ with the highest KO'ratio" would turn away from the TV sets if Klitschko's KO victims would be a median 190 lbs.
The same fans who mention that "Rocky Marciano is the only heavyweight champ who retired undefeated (49-0)" would be very upset if Wladimir Klitschko chose 40 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers (200 lbs and below) or chose 49 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers, former cruisers and bums (yes, that's Marciano's record in a nutshell).
The same fans who measure Wladimir Klitschko against previous oh-so-great champs would be appalled if Wladimir Klitschko actually fought opponents like those champs fought.
-and-
It's a no-brainer that Joe Louis can hold such records because included in his 26 title wins are opponents like Billy Conn 174 lbs and bums like Tony Musto (37-30).
Now I'm not here to bag the old timers because it makes me feel good, and I know at 32 years of age I'm only a young whipper snapper compared to some of you guys who have followed boxing for twice that time and who's fathers may have been involved with or fans of Louis or his contemporary's for example. But when some of you put on your rose coloured glasses and poke fun at my era and it's fighters by making ridiculous comparisons with your favourites that really don't stand up to scrutiny well then it's time to face the facts. Those records were padded to high hell, and only some of them stand up to scrutiny!
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko called out 34-11 guy (who has lost 2 of his last 3 fights, including a loss to an opponent who was 11-2 and 191 lbs)?
What would happen if the next world championship opponent earned his title fight by beating three bums (6-8, 13-4, 16-27)?
What would happen if Vitali Klitschko decided to call out a 37-30 opponent (bum) for his next world championship fight?
What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko decided to stage a world championship against a 197 lbs boxer who had only 7 fights (of which only 2 had been real heavyweight fights 200×2)?
Or if Wladimir Klitschko decided to lose all his muscles, go all the way down to 197 lbs and then fight another 197 lbs opponent?
Or even go down to 185 lbs to stage a world championship against another 185 lbs (who never had and never will have a single real heavyweight fight 200×2)?
Exactly such opponents and circumstances HAPPENED and are USED AS A PROOF of the GREATNESS of past eras.
Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier all fought exactly such opponents in exactly such world championship fights.
Joe Louis vs Jim Braddock (197 lbs vs 197 lbs) (world heavyweight title 1937)
Joe Louis vs Tony Musto (37-30 whole career) (World heavyweight title 1941)
Joe Louis vs Billy Conn 174 lbs (Unification(!) world heavyweight title 1937)
Rocky Marciano 184 lbs vs Roland LaStarza 185 lbs (World heavyweight title 1953)
Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks 197 lbs, 7-0 at bout, 26-17 whole career (WBA+WBC world heavyweight title 1978)
Muhammad Ali vs George Chuvalo, 34-11 at bout, coming off a loss to a 11-2, 191 lbs guy (world heavyweight title 1966)
Joe Frazier vs Dave Zyglewicz, who earned his title fight by beating Pedro Sanchez (6-8), Bob Felstein (13-4), Willie Johnson (16-27) and Levi Forte (18-19) (world heavyweight title 1969) Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks (26-17) 197 lbs (WBA world heavyweight title 1978)
or Muhammad Ali vs ·Henry Cooper (40-14) 188 lbs (World Heavyweight title 1966)
Larry Holmes vs Mike Weaver (41-18) 202 lbs (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs Ossie Ocasio (23-13) (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs David Bey (18-11) (IBF heavyweight title 1985)
The same fans and experts who declare that "Joe Louis still holds the record for most heavyweight championships won" (which includes world title opponents like mentioned above) have no problems to declare that the current heavyweight division (which excludes such title opponents like mentioned above) is weak.
The same fans who complain about a "dire Klitschko era" have no problem to declare Ali's era to be "The golden Age", yet half of Ali's opponents wouldn't be allowed nowadays or would be a proof of how Klitschko sucks.
The same experts who calculated that "Rocky Marciano is the heavyweight champ with the highest KO'ratio" would turn away from the TV sets if Klitschko's KO victims would be a median 190 lbs.
The same fans who mention that "Rocky Marciano is the only heavyweight champ who retired undefeated (49-0)" would be very upset if Wladimir Klitschko chose 40 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers (200 lbs and below) or chose 49 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers, former cruisers and bums (yes, that's Marciano's record in a nutshell).
The same fans who measure Wladimir Klitschko against previous oh-so-great champs would be appalled if Wladimir Klitschko actually fought opponents like those champs fought.
-and-
It's a no-brainer that Joe Louis can hold such records because included in his 26 title wins are opponents like Billy Conn 174 lbs and bums like Tony Musto (37-30).
Now I'm not here to bag the old timers because it makes me feel good, and I know at 32 years of age I'm only a young whipper snapper compared to some of you guys who have followed boxing for twice that time and who's fathers may have been involved with or fans of Louis or his contemporary's for example. But when some of you put on your rose coloured glasses and poke fun at my era and it's fighters by making ridiculous comparisons with your favourites that really don't stand up to scrutiny well then it's time to face the facts. Those records were padded to high hell, and only some of them stand up to scrutiny!
ahhhhhhhhh, now THAT fucking explains it...........:rolleyes:
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
ahhhhhhhhh, now THAT fucking explains it...........:rolleyes:
But it doesn't even.... I have pairs of socks that are smarter than this moron!
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
what would have happened if Joe Louis stood in the ring and cuddled his opponent for 12 rounds infront of thousands and thousands of people?
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
what would have happened if Joe Louis stood in the ring and cuddled his opponent for 12 rounds infront of thousands and thousands of people?
Read in Russian accent:
Shut up, Father land soviet block embrace all who compete in 12 round cuddle :mad:.
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
why are you so insistent on this issue? most people have gotten past it. nobody is going to change their mind and you are starting to look more desperate and more ignorant. its only hurting your reputation.
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
What would happen if keyboard kids actually showed respect for prior eras and found something positive to say rather than obsessing with boarder line homoeroticism and a narrow fixation on the size of everything pertaining to half naked professional athletes :cwm13:
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Joe Louis is the Greatest Heavyweight Champion of All-Time end of argument
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
why are you so insistent on this issue? most people have gotten past it. nobody is going to change their mind and you are starting to look more desperate and more ignorant. its only hurting your reputation.
What reputation?
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Are you seriously suggesting that a man whose opponents were referred to as the "Bum of the Month Club" DID NOT fight solid opposition on a regular basis?
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Basically the Great Joe Louis fought himself out of top tier challengers, so that is when he began giving 2nd and 3rd tier fighters a shot at the Title.
When Joe and other Champions of that era fought, the world knew and cared who the Champ was, the Heavyweight Championship was front page news. Nowadays, 99% of americans don't even know nor care who the Champ is, and mention the name Klitschko, you'll just get a puzzled expression just before the dumb@$$es ask if "Tyson's still in there?"
Almost every fighter had some defeats at one time.
Folks shouldn't use that term "bums" in regard to professional fighting men.
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko called out 34-11 guy (who has lost 2 of his last 3 fights, including a loss to an opponent who was 11-2 and 191 lbs)?
What would happen if the next world championship opponent earned his title fight by beating three bums (6-8, 13-4, 16-27)?
What would happen if Vitali Klitschko decided to call out a 37-30 opponent (bum) for his next world championship fight?
What would happen if Wladimir Klitschko decided to stage a world championship against a 197 lbs boxer who had only 7 fights (of which only 2 had been real heavyweight fights 200×2)?
Or if Wladimir Klitschko decided to lose all his muscles, go all the way down to 197 lbs and then fight another 197 lbs opponent?
Or even go down to 185 lbs to stage a world championship against another 185 lbs (who never had and never will have a single real heavyweight fight 200×2)?
Exactly such opponents and circumstances HAPPENED and are USED AS A PROOF of the GREATNESS of past eras.
Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier all fought exactly such opponents in exactly such world championship fights.
Joe Louis vs Jim Braddock (197 lbs vs 197 lbs) (world heavyweight title 1937)
Joe Louis vs Tony Musto (37-30 whole career) (World heavyweight title 1941)
Joe Louis vs Billy Conn 174 lbs (Unification(!) world heavyweight title 1937)
Rocky Marciano 184 lbs vs Roland LaStarza 185 lbs (World heavyweight title 1953)
Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks 197 lbs, 7-0 at bout, 26-17 whole career (WBA+WBC world heavyweight title 1978)
Muhammad Ali vs George Chuvalo, 34-11 at bout, coming off a loss to a 11-2, 191 lbs guy (world heavyweight title 1966)
Joe Frazier vs Dave Zyglewicz, who earned his title fight by beating Pedro Sanchez (6-8), Bob Felstein (13-4), Willie Johnson (16-27) and Levi Forte (18-19) (world heavyweight title 1969) Muhammad Ali vs Leon Spinks (26-17) 197 lbs (WBA world heavyweight title 1978)
or Muhammad Ali vs ·Henry Cooper (40-14) 188 lbs (World Heavyweight title 1966)
Larry Holmes vs Mike Weaver (41-18) 202 lbs (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs Ossie Ocasio (23-13) (WBC heavyweight title 1979)
Larry Holmes vs David Bey (18-11) (IBF heavyweight title 1985)
The same fans and experts who declare that "Joe Louis still holds the record for most heavyweight championships won" (which includes world title opponents like mentioned above) have no problems to declare that the current heavyweight division (which excludes such title opponents like mentioned above) is weak.
The same fans who complain about a "dire Klitschko era" have no problem to declare Ali's era to be "The golden Age", yet half of Ali's opponents wouldn't be allowed nowadays or would be a proof of how Klitschko sucks.
The same experts who calculated that "Rocky Marciano is the heavyweight champ with the highest KO'ratio" would turn away from the TV sets if Klitschko's KO victims would be a median 190 lbs.
The same fans who mention that "Rocky Marciano is the only heavyweight champ who retired undefeated (49-0)" would be very upset if Wladimir Klitschko chose 40 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers (200 lbs and below) or chose 49 of his 49 opponents to be cruisers, former cruisers and bums (yes, that's Marciano's record in a nutshell).
The same fans who measure Wladimir Klitschko against previous oh-so-great champs would be appalled if Wladimir Klitschko actually fought opponents like those champs fought.
-and-
It's a no-brainer that Joe Louis can hold such records because included in his 26 title wins are opponents like Billy Conn 174 lbs and bums like Tony Musto (37-30).
Now I'm not here to bag the old timers because it makes me feel good, and I know at 32 years of age I'm only a young whipper snapper compared to some of you guys who have followed boxing for twice that time and who's fathers may have been involved with or fans of Louis or his contemporary's for example. But when some of you put on your rose coloured glasses and poke fun at my era and it's fighters by making ridiculous comparisons with your favourites that really don't stand up to scrutiny well then it's time to face the facts. Those records were padded to high hell, and only some of them stand up to scrutiny!
25 defences says he has the best record , best HW of all time no , not for me , but Joe was class in and out of the ring , and he didn't dodge the draft unlike Clay , so he has my respect.
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
I have great respect for Joe Louis too and think he is a great champion. He is still in the top 10 for title performance but as for "best HW record" not by a long shot.
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
I have great respect for Joe Louis too and think he is a great champion. He is still in the top 10 for title performance but as for "best HW record" not by a long shot.
hahaha. hahaha. ha-fucking-haha-
Re: Joe Louis has the best record in HW world title fights... Right? Wrong!
Max Power's Heavyweight title championship Top 10 list
With Title wins and KO's listed.
Excluding BUMS and Cruiserweights and 2nd and 3rd tier champs!
1. Wladimir Klitschko - 17 (15 KOs)
2. Lennox Lewis - 15 (10 KOs)
3. Vitali Klitschko - 14 (11 KOs)
4. Larry Holmes - 13 (7 KOs)
5. Muhammad Ali - 13 (6 KOs)
6. Mike Tyson - 9 (8 KOs)
7. Evander Holyfield - 9 (3 KOs)
8. Joe Louis - 7 (4 KOs)
9. Nicolay Valuev - 6 (3 KOs)
10. Chris Byrd - 5 (1 KO)
This represents a fair comparison and even looks like it makes sense.
