Shawn Porter/Juice/Drug Testing/Paulie. Fact.

So Paulie is basically calling him a cheat. Paulie says he's never felt power like it. Devon Alexander's trainer told Paulie that Devon was shocked by Porter's power. Porter and his old man approached Paulie to ask him to cool it on the drugs issue. There's been a little confusion between Porter and Brook's team over random drug testing. Hearn says it's happening. Porter's dad says it's not. Oscar says it is. Seems to be resolved.

Last year Porter couldn't put a dent in the "lightweight" Julio Diaz, now all of a sudden he has the reputation of a fearsome banger. Before ironing out Paulie he hadn't stopped anyone in a few years, which includes guys like Alfonso Gomez, who gets a good hiding everytime he goes near the elite.

Does Paulie have a point or is he going over the top?

Seriously raises Questions about Porter after reading those facts mate ;)

Can't believe that Drug tests are not mandatory for every fighter before and after the fight.

Peoples lifes are at risk at the end of the day!!!

Good Post :cool:

And yeah i think Paulie has a VERY good point ;)

Here's a provisional :coolclick: subject to confirmation of the above.

:p

Just stuck this thread onto my fbook wall as Brook trains at my brothers mates Gym


Heres a Video of Brook talking along the same lines!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YtaV...e_gdata_player

Here's the thing: it's common boxing lore that punchers are born, not made... right? So what makes people think that PED's suddenly turn a fighter into a power punching machine? I think it's the Rocky 4 syndrome, where we saw Drago take the steroids and then his punching power measured through the roof.

People will say "well of course if steroids make you stronger, of course your punch is going to be stronger." Not necessarily, considering the fact that "punching power" comes from a chain of processes that we really can't define, and historically have not been able to improve upon. Weight lifting makes you stronger, but does weight training make you punch harder? Boxing consensus has always said no. How many guys can you name who started their careers feather fisted, and then developed punching power and became KO artists? Again, boxing consensus has always said you either have power or you don't.

Am I saying steroids do NOTHING for you punching. No. Am I saying Porter is definitely not on steroids? No. But I don't believe steroids will take you from an average puncher to the point where a guy like Paulie would say "wow, I can't believe how much power you have, you must be using something." I've never seen any evidence of that. In the UFC, Stephan Bonnar was juiced out of his mind when he fought Anderson Silva. Anderson stood with his back against the cage, hands down, and let Stephan punch him on the chin and laughed at him. Stephan was never a huge puncher and steroids seemingly did nothing for him (remember, these are tiny UFC gloves, not boxing gloves he was using).

And also, is Paulie that niave to think that he's never fought anyone on steroids until Porter (if indeed Porter was using?)

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Here's the thing: it's common boxing lore that punchers are born, not made... right? So what makes people think that PED's suddenly turn a fighter into a power punching machine? I think it's the Rocky 4 syndrome, where we saw Drago take the steroids and then his punching power measured through the roof.

People will say "well of course if steroids make you stronger, of course your punch is going to be stronger." Not necessarily, considering the fact that "punching power" comes from a chain of processes that we really can't define, and historically have not been able to improve upon. Weight lifting makes you stronger, but does weight training make you punch harder? Boxing consensus has always said no. How many guys can you name who started their careers feather fisted, and then developed punching power and became KO artists? Again, boxing consensus has always said you either have power or you don't.

Am I saying steroids do NOTHING for you punching. No. Am I saying Porter is definitely not on steroids? No. But I don't believe steroids will take you from an average puncher to the point where a guy like Paulie would say "wow, I can't believe how much power you have, you must be using something." I've never seen any evidence of that. In the UFC, Stephan Bonnar was juiced out of his mind when he fought Anderson Silva. Anderson stood with his back against the cage, hands down, and let Stephan punch him on the chin and laughed at him. Stephan was never a huge puncher and steroids seemingly did nothing for him (remember, these are tiny UFC gloves, not boxing gloves he was using).

And also, is Paulie that niave to think that he's never fought anyone on steroids until Porter (if indeed Porter was using?)

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more than a few daft points in there mate but you rescued it at the very end


Pauli was shocked with porters power - porters power has come from steroids - Pauli has never felt power like it before - so Pauli mustn't have fought anyone on steroids before ?


is that a fair point?


I dunno, theres so many factors with steroid use its hard to say


one thing that is for absolute certain tho, it can improve your punching power

I'm just reporting what Paulie said, unless evidence surfaces I'll give anyone the benefit of doubt.

The other week I was watching a documentary film about Lance Armstrong, he was treated like a nonce for using drugs, yet in boxing it seems even the guys that get caught are swiftly forgiven and welcomed open arms back into the sport/business.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I'm just reporting what Paulie said, unless evidence surfaces I'll give anyone the benefit of doubt.

The other week I was watching a documentary film about Lance Armstrong, he was treated like a nonce for using drugs, yet in boxing it seems even the guys that get caught are swiftly forgiven and welcomed open arms back into the sport/business.

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daft mate innit

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Originally Posted by Fenster

So Paulie is basically calling him a cheat. Paulie says he's never felt power like it. Devon Alexander's trainer told Paulie that Devon was shocked by Porter's power. Porter and his old man approached Paulie to ask him to cool it on the drugs issue. There's been a little confusion between Porter and Brook's team over random drug testing. Hearn says it's happening. Porter's dad says it's not. Oscar says it is. Seems to be resolved.

Last year Porter couldn't put a dent in the "lightweight" Julio Diaz, now all of a sudden he has the reputation of a fearsome banger. Before ironing out Paulie he hadn't stopped anyone in a few years, which includes guys like Alfonso Gomez, who gets a good hiding everytime he goes near the elite.

Does Paulie have a point or is he going over the top?

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Don't know if Paulie is going over the top or not, but if Paulie is willing to risk his reputation or Porter's, I think we should find out.
If it turns out that Porter was or is using PEDs it's a reputation killer, and there will always be some doubt about past and future wins.
If it turns out that Porter is clean (is tested and continues to destroy everyone he fights) then I'm probably not going to be listening to Paulie when he talks about PEDs anymore.
Porter should be punished in some way if he has used PEDs, but the important thing in my mind is not "getting" Porter, the important thing is doing whatever possible to make sure it doesn't happen again, with someone else.
That's going to he expensive, and will take cooperation from everyone (LOL) in boxing.

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Originally Posted by smashup

And yeah i think Paulie has a VERY good point ;)

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I agree with Smashup. It's sounds dodgy to me. Fighters should just take the tests, it's not a game of bowls.

It was very suspicious because I did not see him as a big puncher but maybe he just caught Paulie right. McCallum knocked out Curry with a single punch and that never happened before or after in his career. So it could happen.

People can become punchers, Thomas "Hitman" Hearns is considered an all time great puncher and it is widely known he could punch for shit his first few years at the gym.

Steroids are not an instant cure all, although they do fix everything from wasting to asthma to poison ivy. So they are pretty damn close to a cure all.

Sometimes in boxing tiny differences make drastic differences. Catch a guy on the cheek with a shot and he takes it fine, that same shot on the tip of the chin and he's sleeping. Literally inches of difference. Drastically different outcome.

The same applies in many ways. You push a guy of equal strength he moves a little, you push a guy with less strength he moves more, maybe it effects his balance so a hand drops and your right lands in that opening.

You see steroids all through sports because they work. Pick the sport and at one point or another they've said "well it doesn't effect our sport because...". That thought snubs its nose at every bit of evidence that has ever existed. Every sport where you can measure gains steroids have proven to have a profound effect. But not in this sport. Yeah, then why do people spend so damn much money and take such risk?

Denying steroids effect is like denying all scientific evidence because the Bible told you so.

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

People can become punchers, Thomas "Hitman" Hearns is considered an all time great puncher and it is widely known he could punch for shit his first few years at the gym.

Steroids are not an instant cure all, although they do fix everything from wasting to asthma to poison ivy. So they are pretty damn close to a cure all.

Sometimes in boxing tiny differences make drastic differences. Catch a guy on the cheek with a shot and he takes it fine, that same shot on the tip of the chin and he's sleeping. Literally inches of difference. Drastically different outcome.

The same applies in many ways. You push a guy of equal strength he moves a little, you push a guy with less strength he moves more, maybe it effects his balance so a hand drops and your right lands in that opening.

You see steroids all through sports because they work. Pick the sport and at one point or another they've said "well it doesn't effect our sport because...". That thought snubs its nose at every bit of evidence that has ever existed. Every sport where you can measure gains steroids have proven to have a profound effect. But not in this sport. Yeah, then why do people spend so damn much money and take such risk?

Denying steroids effect is like denying all scientific evidence because the Bible told you so.

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Science is the tool of the devil

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Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

People can become punchers, Thomas "Hitman" Hearns is considered an all time great puncher and it is widely known he could punch for shit his first few years at the gym.

Steroids are not an instant cure all, although they do fix everything from wasting to asthma to poison ivy. So they are pretty damn close to a cure all.

Sometimes in boxing tiny differences make drastic differences. Catch a guy on the cheek with a shot and he takes it fine, that same shot on the tip of the chin and he's sleeping. Literally inches of difference. Drastically different outcome.

The same applies in many ways. You push a guy of equal strength he moves a little, you push a guy with less strength he moves more, maybe it effects his balance so a hand drops and your right lands in that opening.

You see steroids all through sports because they work. Pick the sport and at one point or another they've said "well it doesn't effect our sport because...". That thought snubs its nose at every bit of evidence that has ever existed. Every sport where you can measure gains steroids have proven to have a profound effect. But not in this sport. Yeah, then why do people spend so damn much money and take such risk?

Denying steroids effect is like denying all scientific evidence because the Bible told you so.

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Science is the tool of the devil

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Amen, Brother Silkeyjoe.