Are we really that shocked about a guy tying up a guy on the inside?

Guys like Sugar Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Ali, ect did the same shit to charging bull opponents.

I've never seen a thread talking about how either of those guys was bullshit and a cheater, or how he bought off the ref/his wins, or he wasn't a real man, ect.

If we're going to hate on guys who hold on the inside, at least be consistent.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbVEeC-WjMU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQDfNoRmd4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuGZVkYuHM4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMOIWWyNHJs

Its a simple form of defence and I don't see a problem with it. If somebody is landing big shots, tying them up is a great way of recovering and keeping out of trouble. I know fighters can do it in excess but it does help.

It's against the rules if done excessively and it isn't fun to watch. Ward gets tons of grief for holding excessively. For that matter, so did Hatton. And Richar Abril.

I know I've read a decent amount about Ali holding at least toward the end of his career.

Your examples are odd though because Robinson, Ali and Leonard were holding against Hall of Fame boxers like Jake Lamotta Carmen Basilio, Roberto Duran and Joe Frazier. I like Maidana, but he lost to Kotelnik, and he isn't getting anywhere near the Hall of Fame.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Your examples are odd though because Robinson, Ali and Leonard were holding against Hall of Fame boxers like Jake Lamotta Carmen Basilio, Roberto Duran and Joe Frazier. I like Maidana, but he lost to Kotelnik, and he isn't getting anywhere near the Hall of Fame.

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...so the rule should be you can't hold, unless your opponent will be put into the hall of fame in the future? Holding is holding man, it's a tactic that these guys used with bull rushing opponents. I'm not sure why we're suddenly so shocked and outraged that guys are holding when it's been going on forever in boxing.

SRR, SRL, and Ali held against non-HOF guys. Why? Because it's the smart thing to do.

Well..... there's holding or tying up a guy on the inside.... and then there's what Wlad does.

I'm shocked

When you consider that Floyd is almost 38, given all those other guys were finished by then, it's hard to be surprised about. Aging fighters find ways to adapt and preserve themselves, or they get beaten by guys they would have rolled over years ago, just the way it goes. I think Floyd has physically diminished more than people realize and has managed to make it less than obvious, so credit to him.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Your examples are odd though because Robinson, Ali and Leonard were holding against Hall of Fame boxers like Jake Lamotta Carmen Basilio, Roberto Duran and Joe Frazier. I like Maidana, but he lost to Kotelnik, and he isn't getting anywhere near the Hall of Fame.

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...so the rule should be you can't hold, unless your opponent will be put into the hall of fame in the future? Holding is holding man, it's a tactic that these guys used with bull rushing opponents. I'm not sure why we're suddenly so shocked and outraged that guys are holding when it's been going on forever in boxing.

SRR, SRL, and Ali held against non-HOF guys. Why? Because it's the smart thing to do.

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Clinching and fighting on the inside aren't against the rules. If you have one arm free etc., fight on. Holding is against the rules. Check the rules. It's also not fun to watch. It's the smart thing to do if you can't fight effectively against your opponent on the inside until the ref calls you on it.

Why do you like it?

The rule is excessive holding. What is excessive holding? What Floyd was doing was not in my opinion excessive.

No, we shouldn't be surprised or outraged about boxers clinching, but when they are P4P candidates or hold major belts or more than one belt, we have the right to expect less clinching and more fighting on the inside, in my opinion.