Re: Some thought on Tyson
80% of Tyson's career was with shit trainers that wanted to see Tyson do the square-on weeble-wabble punch by numbers system. It really resent this because Tyson had good upper-body movement and a reliable chin so really could have put his attributes to better use.
I always felt that fighting more like James Toney (early-mid noughties) would have much better suited Tyson - as a more side-on fighter, not trying to load up on so much.
Re: Some thought on Tyson
D'Mato and Rooney got Tyson to reach his potential. I don't think Dundee could have offered him much different...I mean Angie worked with Carmen Basillio and he was kind of a pressure fighter but I just don't see Angie having much more to offer Tyson than Cus and Rooney did. Would Tyson have done well under Atlas? Who knows. Kevin Rooney obviously hasn't found the right guy to recapture the magic he had with Tyson. I think later on in his career Tyson just needed to be in the gym more and not have a trainer who would accept his not showing up. Since he was around at the time I do wonder why Eddie Futch was never considered for Tyson? Manny Steward also may have helped. Both of those guys were certainly better than Aaron Snowell :rolleyes:
Re: Some thought on Tyson
Angelo, Eddie and Manny didn't have the patience for tysons nonsense outside the ring. Even Cus, kevin and others went through their growing pains with tyson as pubicly known. You have to realize that Tyson was brought up on the Cus Peek a boo /number system. They kept that in the fold because it was a point of reference. Theoretically if the skills were sharp and the training was done, all you had to do was nurse him mentally/emotionally through the fight. To abandon that system and try to remake tyson all over again would have just unmade Tyson. Tyson was a student of the game but look at the latter part of his career where he slacked off, years removed from all of that and every cook that came through the kitchen was trying to add their own spice to the pot. Roach, Snowell, Brooks, Muhammed, Fenech. Tyson stopped moving his head and only moved his hands, He didnt get as low and he used to, he telegraphed his punches, he got frustrated easier by guys like buster mathis junior.
That system, Cus's presence, Rooneys voice, Jacobs backing.. all of it was a perfect storm that came together and kept mike and his confidence whole. Piece by piece they were removed and it stripped him mentally back down to that scared kid he was before he was robbing and breaking into houses in Brooklyn.
Re: Some thought on Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NVSemin
Recently rewatched Tyson vs Thomas fight
Tyson was not doing very well from round 2 to 6. Rooney was yelling at him some garbage "you gotta throw punches with bad intentions", his behavior in the corner reminded me of Teddy Atlas in Moorers fights. Mike won the fight because the did not throw any uppercut till the right moment in the round 6.
After this fight and previous with Bonecrasher Smith, I started to realise that Rooney was overrated. He was definitely better than Atlas and many others in the gym, mittwork and general stuff, but not in boxing strategy. What Mike should have done is to hire Angelo Dundee.
Tyson = overrated he was a bully , hit him back and he lost every fight he was in.
Re: Some thought on Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NVSemin
Recently rewatched Tyson vs Thomas fight
Tyson was not doing very well from round 2 to 6. Rooney was yelling at him some garbage "you gotta throw punches with bad intentions", his behavior in the corner reminded me of Teddy Atlas in Moorers fights. Mike won the fight because the did not throw any uppercut till the right moment in the round 6.
After this fight and previous with Bonecrasher Smith, I started to realise that Rooney was overrated. He was definitely better than Atlas and many others in the gym, mittwork and general stuff, but not in boxing strategy. What Mike should have done is to hire Angelo Dundee.
Tyson = overrated he was a bully , hit him back and he lost every fight he was in.
You know he was better than that.
Tyson had an awesome first round against Pinklon Thomas, he absolutely battered him.
Re: Some thought on Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
But tyson had a short reach and was the smallest heavyweight so im not sure how that toney style would have worked for him.
Well I think as a shorter fighter making your opponent reach for you and you roll and counter DOES work but given Tyson's mentality you have to wonder if he would be patient enough to wait for that picture perfect shot. I think being a pure counter puncher is the exact opposite to being a pressure fighter which is what Tyson was trained to do for his entire career.
Re: Some thought on Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Every loss tyson had was way past his prime.
We have to look at pre douglas even though he had douglas down for ten seconds.
.....:rolleyes:
And look at who he fought at that point in his career, a bunch of cling-ons from Larry Holmes' era
Re: Some thought on Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Every loss tyson had was way past his prime.
We have to look at pre douglas even though he had douglas down for ten seconds.
.....:rolleyes:
And look at who he fought at that point in his career, a bunch of cling-ons from Larry Holmes' era
For the record your honour. Tucker and Biggs were undefeated fighters not from Holmes era.
Re: Some thought on Tyson
Tyson simply wouldn't have been Tyson minus Cus and Rooney. He was in a decent test and made adjustments, sounds like it worked itself out ??? Fighting style wise like a Toney just wouldn't have worked cause that was as much icey mental awareness and a calm storm for James as it was shoulder roll and killer 6' inch inside counters. Tysons mentality was not some unshakable foundation.
Re: Some thought on Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
For the record your honour. Tucker and Biggs were undefeated fighters not from Holmes era.
So 2 decent heavyweights
Re: Some thought on Tyson
I do wonder about a young Tyson being groomed for the heavyweight division by Eddie Futch though. I don't know if that would weaken the mentality of Tyson or if he would be more calm and tougher psychologically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3t9FNzw11M
Re: Some thought on Tyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
For the record your honour. Tucker and Biggs were undefeated fighters not from Holmes era.
So 2 decent heavyweights
Pinklon was decent and gave a good effort, Berbick fought the wrong fight, Bonecrusher tried hugging, Spinks got scared, Tubbs tried his best, Bruno was limited, Williams got cocky.
