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I had him winning every round, maybe you could have the sixth being even if you were being kind to tito. Hopkins controlled the outside with his jab and right hand. He never let Tito use his left hook at all. Hopkins also had the better of the exchanges on the inside and would always be landing that extra punch. His defence was outstanding, it was a brilliant performance and ended with a massive knockout. Hopkins is a legend, there really is no doubting that.
I know some Tito fans claimed he was over his best weight, but going into the fight Tito easily disputed that claim by stopping then WBA champ William Joppy who had defended the title on a number of occasions.
Great way to unify the 3 main belts. Champ vs Champ & one turned in a masterful performance.
Side note- I saw something in that performance no one talks about; To me, there were several times Hop wanted to clinch & Tito stopped it by using his elbow to push off on Hop's collar bone. Hop adjusted to it. Even though he had his back to the ropes, he kept moving, never laying on the ropes.
I also note that the final knockdown was completed by a bit of a push, but hey, the master knew every trick in the book!
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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Hopkins is a legend, as he has proven before and since then. Not a bad slight on your record to have lost to a legendary natural middleweight, after coming up from an original 147. Also, not to mention only one of three losses, all to ATG's and future HOF'ers (Hopkins, Wright, RJJ). Lots of fighters would gladly give up a limb to have a record like that.
;)
It was not his best weight but that cant be used as an excuse. And lets keep it real. Joppy was about as much a world beater as Kieth Holmes. That was one of the weakest eras in middleweight history.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
I'm not trying to take away from the performance because Tito just happened to meet up with one of the top 5 middleweights that has ever laced them up regardless of the era he operated in.
His performance inside the ring was equaled only by his performance outside it. He won the fight prior to the bell to start the first round. He took Tito's head w/o throwing a punch. Papa didn't help things much telling him he was winning the fight.
Its staggering really. Tito, Taylor, Tarver, Pavlik, Wright, never the same again.
On point.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitIt was not his best weight but that cant be used as an excuse. And lets keep it real. Joppy was about as much a world beater as Kieth Holmes. That was one of the weakest eras in middleweight history.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
I'm not trying to take away from the performance because Tito just happened to meet up with one of the top 5 middleweights that has ever laced them up regardless of the era he operated in.
His performance inside the ring was equaled only by his performance outside it. He won the fight prior to the bell to start the first round. He took Tito's head w/o throwing a punch. Papa didn't help things much telling him he was winning the fight.
Its staggering really. Tito, Taylor, Tarver, Pavlik, Wright, never the same again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitIt was not his best weight but that cant be used as an excuse. And lets keep it real. Joppy was about as much a world beater as Kieth Holmes. That was one of the weakest eras in middleweight history.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
I'm not trying to take away from the performance because Tito just happened to meet up with one of the top 5 middleweights that has ever laced them up regardless of the era he operated in.
His performance inside the ring was equaled only by his performance outside it. He won the fight prior to the bell to start the first round. He took Tito's head w/o throwing a punch. Papa didn't help things much telling him he was winning the fight.
Its staggering really. Tito, Taylor, Tarver, Pavlik, Wright, never the same again.
How many champions (PED users excluded) move up in weight and immediately face and destroy a reigning champion at that new weight? I've given Hopkins his just due. But I will also defend Trinidad's record by pointing out that which may be being overlooked.
Let's not forget that Tito wasn't allowed to have his hands wrapped in that special way his father liked to wrap them; and he was forced by the NYSAC to rewrap them. Bernard walked through every punch Tito threw and Tito fought like he knew his punches had no power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitIt was not his best weight but that cant be used as an excuse. And lets keep it real. Joppy was about as much a world beater as Kieth Holmes. That was one of the weakest eras in middleweight history.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
I'm not trying to take away from the performance because Tito just happened to meet up with one of the top 5 middleweights that has ever laced them up regardless of the era he operated in.
His performance inside the ring was equaled only by his performance outside it. He won the fight prior to the bell to start the first round. He took Tito's head w/o throwing a punch. Papa didn't help things much telling him he was winning the fight.
Its staggering really. Tito, Taylor, Tarver, Pavlik, Wright, never the same again.
How many champions (PED users excluded) move up in weight and immediately face and destroy a reigning champion at that new weight? I've given Hopkins his just due. But I will also defend Trinidad's record by pointing out that which may be being overlooked.
I never meant to overlook that and he did it twice and once against what was supposed to be the new Hbo poster child in David Reid. In Joppys case well size only matters if the bigger man has similar/equal skill. Joppy was not in the same league as Tito just like Keith was not with Hop.
That 147/54/60 area as a whole has always been stacked and the middleweight division throughout history have relied on the welters moving up prior to 54 becoming a division. Hearns jumped up and got bombed out against Hagler and I dont count Leonards in your premise cause he slept for 3 years in between coke binges and was retired.
I will ignore all comments concerning the wrap crap because we have all been through that a gazillion times. People tend to confuse side effects with real effects.The re-wrapping of legally wrapped hands was the final straw for Tito and he never mentally recovered and carried his anger and emotions to the ring. Some will suggest that the wraps themselves did something to his power when it was the act of re-wrapping itself that did. Many of the same who make that bogus claim on illegal wraps with then say Bernard schooled him and Tito barely laid a hand on him. Then why and how do they reach the conclusion on the wraps?
This fight was perfectly executed by Bernard and he knew it was coming long before Tito did. Don King made sure of that and he owned all 4 fighters involved in the tourney. I wonder if Haymon will ever do the same? I digress. Any trainer worth their salary will tell you in no uncertain terms that the brain ergo the fighters mentality is the most important skill/tool/muscle at the elite level and w/o it you will be had.
What I never could get was how huge Hopkins was played down and frankly overlooked a bit by most. It was almost played like a Tito coronation. The division being what it was, this was a solid literal "clean up" and it was a middleweight unification tournament, series after all. Tito was complete legit at middle with destruction of Joppy...a champion Hopkins would see fit to fight behind him. Same with Oscar or honestly in comparison had no business at middle :-X. Absolute gem of a breakdown on Tito. You just got that feel only two rounds in. Hopkins had him zeroed all night.
I believe Hopkins was overlooked. Prior to that he had had a long and solid career as a middleweight, but didn't have that signature win. Trinidad was undefeated, and had come up with impressive knockouts over Vargas at 154 and Joppy at 160. Hopkins defeated Trinidad, and has continued his successful career, even moving up to light heavyweight. Trinidad meanwhile concluded his own HOF career with the losses to Wright and RJJ. Again, no shame when your only three losses are against BHop, Wright, and RJJ.
In my opinion Hop's win over Tito was the most complete performance of that decade. Tito was the clear favorite coming off one of the most impressive runs with wins over Sweet Pea (who was well past his best), Oscar, David Reid, Fernando Vargas and capped off with the complete annihilation of Joppy who was the universally recognized #2 middleweight. This was a legit superfight and shouldn't be degraded or downplayed in any way.
Hop completely dominated Tito in every facet of the fight, most notably during the build up using psychological warfare prior to even getting in the ring. Once in the ring he confused Tito by boxing beautifully behind his jab and constantly making Tito reset his feet so he couldn't use his power. Hop worked the body throughout and was brilliant in setting traps along the ropes by throwing the uppercut so that Tito would try to counter with his hook and allow Hop to land clean counter rights. Once inside Hop was equally brilliant at slipping and countering with big shots, and proved he had an ATG chin by absorbing some big left hooks from a murderous puncher. Phenomenal performance.
Hopkins atg
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod