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If we compare title fights from the past to it, its really worlds apart in talent, competitiveness, effort, etc.
HERE is what a HW Championship fight should look like:
Ali/Frazier
Holmes/Norton
Tyson/Holyfield 1
Holmes/Cooney
Lewis/Vitali
Bowe/Holyfield
Tyson/Ruddock
Tyson/Douglas
Lewis/Bruno
etc
one need look no further than this to see how the talent/drive/spirit has deteriorated drastically.
Even the dumbest, laziest, sickest, most dehydrated version of Stiverne possible is a far more proven and dangerous boxer than any version of Frazier.
And Wilder far more formidable than any version of Ali.
In terms of the fights though..
Yeah Wilder vs Stiverne was a bit monotonous in places, not saying it was great but Ali vs Frazier were also boring.
One thing Wilder/Stiverne delivered was high tension. You had that feeling like it was gonna all end at any moment.
With Frazier/Ali, it was so weak there was no chance 2 total featherfists could ever KO each other. Where's the HW excitement in that!
And what about all the clinching? It was the next worst clinchfest after Wlad/Povetkin.
Not Ali/Frazier 1, there was some excitement, tension, and lots of money changing hands over that fight. The way I remember it. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
True but you need two for a good fight. Maybe if Stiverne remembered to drink a glass of water every now and then and actually put up a real effort, we could have seen a war!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Joe Frazier is in the International Boxing Hall of Fame. Joe Frazier was a truly small heavyweight. Joe Frazier was blind in one eye for part of his career. Little half blind Joe Frazier had more heart than he could ever use. Joe Frazier didn't make excuses when he lost, he didn't need to because everyone knew he left everything he had in the ring.
Everyone knows Stiverne didn't fight the best to get that belt. This defense was a 50/50 proposition from the beginning and Wilder may not fare any better,
As long as there is a YouTube, the Frazier/Ali Trilogy will be watched and talked about by boxing fans because there wasn't an ounce of quit in Joe Frazier or Ali.
Max Power, how long do you think the S&W fight is going to be talked about? I'm thinking not very long, especially if Wilder keeps winning against the big guys.
Max Power, if you keep disrespecting the guys from past eras, everyone is going to start disrespecting what you say!
What am I trying to say? Joe Frazier earned and deserves some respect! Ali, too.
Good post. FACT. @FensterQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Compare fat and can not be bothered to get into condition Stiverne to Frazier? You need shooting.
Compare either of these fighters to Ali and Frazier when they achieve that many defences. Which is never.
Ok, I wasn't around for it. I'm too young.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedNot Ali/Frazier 1, there was some excitement, tension, and lots of money changing hands over that fight. The way I remember it. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Perhaps that is not fair since had I been around I probably would have felt it too of course.
The pace of Ali/Frazier 1 was higher from both fighters whereas Widler/Stiverne was kind of 1-sided in terms of "punches thrown" lol.
Still, 25% of the whole fight (FOTC) was a wrestle.
I seen it several times and it isn't real impressive from a non-political view.
Stiverne was a punch bag recently but in FOTC, both Ali AND Frazier were merely punch bags for each other.
Errrr. RIGHT!Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Compare fat and can not be bothered to get into condition Stiverne to Frazier? You need shooting.
Compare either of these fighters to Ali and Frazier when they achieve that many defences. Which is never.
I have compared them. One of these guys is an iron chinned 240lb tank and the other is a featherfisted 210lb dwarf.
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that Frazier was captured on film extremely unathletic whereas Stiverne was post-fight diagnosed with Rhabdomyolysis, he was so OVER-TRAINED to the point that he metabolised his own muscles.
They could not be further than opposite ends of the spectrum. Again, you equate "chub" with "out-of-shape". Nothing can be further from the truth!
It's just that a 6-pack is USUALLY a good indicator of condition, but that condition often includes a lot of sprint -type track conditioning, not completely necessary for boxing, depending on attributes and style.
210lb dwarf could beat your 240lb fat champ as did the 219lb fighter did.
Wilder has great condition but over training is also showing his inexperience.
What happened to Stiverne's deferred dream? Looks like it dried up like a raisin in the sun, after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I honestly cannot believe that anyone could mention Stiverne in the same sentence as Joe Frazier! We're talking about an ATG who lived in the golden era of HW boxing and came up short against 2 men, IMO the greatest HW that has ever lived and the other the hardest punching HW that ever lived who is also a man who returned as a fat, old man to another very good era of HW's and won the title again in his mid forties!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I said "Stiverne" overtrained. You cannot still accept that you can be elite conditioned and still chubby.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
You don't get sent to hospital with that condition unless you trained TOO hard, a fat chump is hardly relevant.
Frazier has nothing whatsoever in common with Wilder and you bloody well know it!
Frazier could not even bloody box for Christ sake!
The fact he won a medal and a title at the time is absolute proof of how weak that era really was. That is a fact!
AS IF Frazier could ever step into the same ring as Wilder or Stiverne! As if!