Roberto Duran vs Julio Cesar Chavez @ Lightweight

I've been watching both their fights lately and am in awe of two things.

How, despite the obvious lulls in interest during the early to mid 80's, Duran managed to always improve as a boxer. How raw he was as a young man and how refined he was a middleweight is astonishing.

Also, I was not aware of Chavez' movement and defensive ability, as a young man. I always thought he was a typical brawler/ slugger type with will and power but jeez the guy had smarts and timing and the sort of arsenal that would make any army's front line retreat.

I see these two almost as polar opposites in that Chavez was a lot better (IMO) the lighter he was, where as you could argue that Duran got better as fighters round him got slower and heavier in hand and foot.

I never really considered a fight between the two as I assumed Duran was a lot bigger than Chavez but I see a lot of things in his work that leads me to believe that
A) he ain't getting floored by Duran
B) he isn't getting outworked by Duran (not at least in the mid-late rounds).
C) he isn't getting out manoeuvred by Duran

So it would have been a very VERY close and exciting fight.

JCC outpoints him in 12 and definitely in 15.

Duran every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

It's a pick em fight for sure... I'd probably put my money on JCC by decision though. Duran was much more technical but JCC was a force of nature. It's anybody's fight though IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

So it would have been a very VERY close and exciting fight.

---

Yeah I think you're right on the money there. Neither guy is going to dominate the other, I think this one would come down to the difference of a few rounds on the scorecards. I think the height and reach of both guys is identical. I'd give a slight power advantage to JCC, the skill advantage to Duran and the chin advantage to JCC, but of course neither guy was lacking in any of those categories.

Would have been a great fight, I think that's the only thing we could know for sure.

Duran was an absolute BEAST at lightweight, with two very heavy hands, which rained punches on his opponents from every angle imaginable. His stamina was beyond belief. Duran fought angry, like a wild animal against someone trying to take away his food. There's no way in hell Chavez could've hung in there against Duran.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Duran was an absolute BEAST at lightweight, with two very heavy hands, which rained punches on his opponents from every angle imaginable. His stamina was beyond belief. Duran fought angry, like a wild animal against someone trying to take away his food. There's no way in hell Chavez could've hung in there against Duran.

---

All the things you said about Duran (which are true) could also be said about JCC. Duran was one of the greatest LW's of all time no doubt, but he wasn't invincible. De Jesus dropped him twice and of course beat him once. Lesser guys have hung with Duran at LW. Viruet had success against him. It's not like he was rolling over everybody with the greatest of ease (besides the "enhancement" guys, and let's face it, JCC rolled over plenty of those guys himself).

Stylistically, JCC is a tough night for anybody. Duran didn't have the evasive slickster skills of a Pernell Whitaker. Duran would have to fight JCC head on, and even if he won the fight in the end, he was going to get hit and he was going to lose rounds. JCC was also relentless, had an unbreakable will and one of the greatest chins of all time, huge power in both hands, and dug to the body like a champ. There's no way Duran is rolling over JCC at LW. It's a tough, competitive fight no matter how you slice it.

Phone booth war , you would have to piss yourself , because no way are you going to the can during this 15 rounder !!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Duran was an absolute BEAST at lightweight, with two very heavy hands, which rained punches on his opponents from every angle imaginable. His stamina was beyond belief. Duran fought angry, like a wild animal against someone trying to take away his food. There's no way in hell Chavez could've hung in there against Duran.

---

All the things you said about Duran (which are true) could also be said about JCC. Duran was one of the greatest LW's of all time no doubt, but he wasn't invincible. De Jesus dropped him twice and of course beat him once. Lesser guys have hung with Duran at LW. Viruet had success against him. It's not like he was rolling over everybody with the greatest of ease (besides the "enhancement" guys, and let's face it, JCC rolled over plenty of those guys himself).

Stylistically, JCC is a tough night for anybody. Duran didn't have the evasive slickster skills of a Pernell Whitaker. Duran would have to fight JCC head on, and even if he won the fight in the end, he was going to get hit and he was going to lose rounds. JCC was also relentless, had an unbreakable will and one of the greatest chins of all time, huge power in both hands, and dug to the body like a champ. There's no way Duran is rolling over JCC at LW. It's a tough, competitive fight no matter how you slice it.

---

No, Duran wasn't invincible. Esteban De Jesus was a great champion himself, with a great left hook, which he used to floor Duran twice. Edwin Viruet was a handful, no slouch himself. Other than that, Duran found very little resistance at lightweight.

Chavez's best work, in the 2nd half of his career, was mostly at super lightweight. Not saying that's a huge factor.... it's not. Chavez was relentless... no doubt about that. He was known for his killer body work. I wouldn't compare his one-punch power to Duran... I believe Duran has the clear edge there.

In short, yes it would be a competitive and very entertaining fight. But IMO, if they fight 10 times, Duran takes it 8 or 9 out of those times. He was just that good.

With all due respect to Chavez, I doubt he beats anyone in the top 20 all time let alone Duran. He was very good at 135 but spent about a minute there. I think he gets carved up.

I'm not saying De Jesus or Viruet were slouches, but they weren't JCC quality. Duran fought a lot of bums in his LW run as well, over in Panama and even over in the States. There are a lot of very unmemorable names on that LW resume (as is the case for JCC too).

Style vs style it's a very close match up. Duran was great but I just don't think he was that good to where he would dominate JCC. I'm not doubting that Duran could win, but JCC is a tough match for anyone at that weight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IamInuit

With all due respect to Chavez, I doubt he beats anyone in the top 20 all time let alone Duran. He was very good at 135 but spent about a minute there. I think he gets carved up.

---

I love the school of thought that, when questioning who would win a hypothetical match up, one must consult the big book of rankings and see who is ranked highest of all time by the consensus of boxing fans. Styles, physical attributes be damned. Fighter A is the #3 of all time, Fighter B is the #7 of all time, so what chance could Fighter B possibly have? It's one of the dumbest things I see on these forums. It boggles my mind.

Why do people talk about weight classes like it's a separate job? Like lightweight is fire-fighting and light-welterweight is criminal law. Well, fighter A was a fire fighter for 10 years, fighter B was a fire fighter for 2 years and then moved on to criminal law, so obviously Fighter A is a better fire fighter. LOL, do people realize that weight classes are arbitrary weight limits set to protect smaller guys from bigger guys? And that, regardless of weight, you're doing the same job? A guy who was great at 130, 140, and 147 (Mayweather for example) would have been great at 135. Who gives a shit who fought longer at the arbitrary weight limit? What matters is the fighters and the clash of styles and skill.

Duran, the guy was just too damn good at lightweight

I love JCC he was my favourite Mexican fighter and was such an underrated skilled fighter who broke down opponents piece by piece.

Duran was just too durable, relentless, brutal and quick. Total package.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IamInuit

With all due respect to Chavez, I doubt he beats anyone in the top 20 all time let alone Duran. He was very good at 135 but spent about a minute there. I think he gets carved up.

---

I love the school of thought that, when questioning who would win a hypothetical match up, one must consult the big book of rankings and see who is ranked highest of all time by the consensus of boxing fans. Styles, physical attributes be damned. Fighter A is the #3 of all time, Fighter B is the #7 of all time, so what chance could Fighter B possibly have? It's one of the dumbest things I see on these forums. It boggles my mind.

Why do people talk about weight classes like it's a separate job? Like lightweight is fire-fighting and light-welterweight is criminal law. Well, fighter A was a fire fighter for 10 years, fighter B was a fire fighter for 2 years and then moved on to criminal law, so obviously Fighter A is a better fire fighter. LOL, do people realize that weight classes are arbitrary weight limits set to protect smaller guys from bigger guys? And that, regardless of weight, you're doing the same job? A guy who was great at 130, 140, and 147 (Mayweather for example) would have been great at 135. Who gives a shit who fought longer at the arbitrary weight limit? What matters is the fighters and the clash of styles and skill.

---

I never consulted squat. I never needed to. He's just not that good a lightweight and is also one of the most overrated fighters of all time. And there is taped evidence that you can even watch. If you think he beats Duran that's your problem and not mine for thinking its laughable.