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Any evidence of this being weak in the early part of his career?
Or were his supreme speed, timing and reflexes the key to avoid a complete flush shot for so long.
We know the weight issue and muscle loss after john ruiz had a massive effect on Roy jones but could working with another trainer on defense have helped his longevity?!
What would you have done after tarver 2?
Good topic.
I think your 2nd sentence is the key. The Jones of old just didn't get hit squarely and flush. Even when tagged, he was moving away from the shot. So basically we never (or rarely) saw Jones' chin tested as we've seen practically every other fighter at some point in their careers. Therefore, it's hard to tell if the chin was already suspect from the very beginning, because nobody was fast or good enough to test it. Then came the 2nd Tarver fight.....
To me the fight that raised my eyebrows about Roy wasn't the KO loss to Tarver. It was the fight immediately following that one, the KO loss to Johnson. You can sort of excuse the loss to Tarver, saying Tarver was a sneaky southpaw with one-punch knockout power who just surprised Jones. But getting knocked out by Glen Johnson?? No way in hell a prime, healthy, cobra-like Jones loses to Johnson. I think the Tarver fight just "painted a bullseye on that button on Roy's chin." It was there to be hit.... and it was susceptible.
It saddens me that someone as great as Jones Jr. has been has suffered through so many ugly knockout losses.
So true.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
If you can deal with the fast hands and combinations and back him up and land one on the chin (or even top of head) roy is going one way and gravity is the winner.
Such a shame
I did like his post p4p performance against lacy.. but then again lacy is lacy.
We also need to analyse the first tarver fight..
That fight is always forgotten but roy had to dig the deepest for the win.
I think you have to assume it was good enough for most of his career. Fighters do get less durable as they age and the punches catch up to them, no matter how good their chin was at some point, or how little they relied on it. Once you've been concussed it can spiral down quickly no matter who you were as well. The first Tarver fight is actually decent evidence that Jones did have a chin, it was more about his balance and timing going a bit and him starting to get hit. The punch that laid him out in the second one, not to mention the Lebedev KO, would plank the vast majority of fighters.
I don't think lack of chin has ever been Roys problem or weakness say pre Tarver. As phenomenal as he was he simply was not a sound, traditional defensive boxer with that 'go to' and time catches up. He got touched by Griffith a bit and I think after the Harding fight, where he actually had hard work to do, he might of gotten bored and that's when all of the "Tyson" and heavyweight 'new challenge' jibber jabber started. Maybe the weight drain, complacency and the needed lightning reflexes just combined for a bad mix not to mention going from Gonzalez, Kelly and Woods to the likes of a focused and feeling dissed Tarver. I mean it may even pain me to say but truth is Tarver when on could be a helluva fighter. The thing is once it all caught to Jones, it stayed there. It caught up fast! Whatever his issue then or now...I seriously hope someone close gets in his ear and reminds him how it is to spend days with family. Spend them healthy and functional! He needs to get out and stay out and leave that pained shadow where he fell the other night.
Look at Roy in his prime he never really got hit,! difference he got older and hit clean and he went over
first things first he was a defensive fighter, he relied on lightening reflexes and speed and movement,
he got old and lost his ability, simple fact he carried on to long like many great fighters.
Enzo, Tarver, in his prime he would have dealt with , maybe he never had the best chin because he
never got hit, it was sad to seem him getting ko by Enzo but there again given the chance he would
have done the same to Enzo.!!!!!!
Don't forget RJJ was never supposed to be fighting at CW. He looks fat at the weight and has no legs. He is bound to get caught and those guys likely hit a darned sight harder then 10kg's or so lighter at LHW or even MW. The belly can grow, but the chin won't.
Roy was decked good and proper in his pomp against Lou Del Valle. Wouldn't say he was ever chinny though
"I feel a responsibility to re enter the ring"??? On top of sad, that just sounds..odd. The wording. He's talking about opening gyms and business dealings etc. in Russia. Love forward thinking and branching out but really wonder if Jones has gotten himself in too deep with obligations that others, including himself, will overlook his health for. He needs to stop. Period!
I'm going to second what @TitoFan said. I'd also add that his offensive style made him more susceptible to getting hit. He was always offense first behind the incredible speed and athleticism. When those assets start to erode you get caught by shots that seemed telegraphed previously. Where as a guy like Mayweather whose approach is defense first will not show the same effects from the loss of timing.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Roy's chin may have or may not have been as fragile as it has looked post Ruiz. He was never stopped as an amateur in about 130 fights. I don't think its his chin really. I just think he gets caught with clean shots that never would have gotten to him and that those shots might ko most people.
Whats incredible about Roys abilities is the fact that he never needed a jab, nor did he really use one ever. The only time I saw him use one was against Vinny Paz. It was an actual jab fest. Pretty sure he landed 100 jabs one round. Never needed a jab at his level. Imagine that. I've often wondered how things may have changed later in his career had he developed a jab as good as the rest of him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI'm going to second what @TitoFan said. I'd also add that his offensive style made him more susceptible to getting hit. He was always offense first behind the incredible speed and athleticism. When those assets start to erode you get caught by shots that seemed telegraphed previously. Where as a guy like Mayweather whose approach is defense first will not show the same effects from the loss of timing.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Roy's chin may have or may not have been as fragile as it has looked post Ruiz. He was never stopped as an amateur in about 130 fights. I don't think its his chin really. I just think he gets caught with clean shots that never would have gotten to him and that those shots might ko most people.
Whats incredible about Roys abilities is the fact that he never needed a jab, nor did he really use one ever. The only time I saw him use one was against Vinny Paz. It was an actual jab fest. Pretty sure he landed 100 jabs one round. Never needed a jab at his level. Imagine that. I've often wondered how things may have changed later in his career had he developed a jab as good as the rest of him.
I think categorizing Roy as "offense first" while Floyd was "defense first" is right on the button. Two guys with tremendous natural athletic and boxing ability.... and yet there was that important distinction. Reason why we never saw ugly knockout losses by Floyd.
BTW.... the Pazienza fight was one of my favorites. Don't know why, but I was dying to see Vinny KTFO'ed. I knew Roy would easily outbox him, but the ferocity of the knockout caught me by surprise. I'd never seen so many punches land smack in the face of a fighter in such quick succession. Vinny must've asked post-fight how many Roys were in the ring with him.
Lol me 2. Never cared for Vinny and his Lamotta impersonation. And lmao on the how many Roys comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI'm going to second what @TitoFan said. I'd also add that his offensive style made him more susceptible to getting hit. He was always offense first behind the incredible speed and athleticism. When those assets start to erode you get caught by shots that seemed telegraphed previously. Where as a guy like Mayweather whose approach is defense first will not show the same effects from the loss of timing.Quote:
Originally Posted by imp
Roy's chin may have or may not have been as fragile as it has looked post Ruiz. He was never stopped as an amateur in about 130 fights. I don't think its his chin really. I just think he gets caught with clean shots that never would have gotten to him and that those shots might ko most people.
Whats incredible about Roys abilities is the fact that he never needed a jab, nor did he really use one ever. The only time I saw him use one was against Vinny Paz. It was an actual jab fest. Pretty sure he landed 100 jabs one round. Never needed a jab at his level. Imagine that. I've often wondered how things may have changed later in his career had he developed a jab as good as the rest of him.
I think categorizing Roy as "offense first" while Floyd was "defense first" is right on the button. Two guys with tremendous natural athletic and boxing ability.... and yet there was that important distinction. Reason why we never saw ugly knockout losses by Floyd.
BTW.... the Pazienza fight was one of my favorites. Don't know why, but I was dying to see Vinny KTFO'ed. I knew Roy would easily outbox him, but the ferocity of the knockout caught me by surprise. I'd never seen so many punches land smack in the face of a fighter in such quick succession. Vinny must've asked post-fight how many Roys were in the ring with him.
Shame roy and JC never met in their primes.
Great chess match with blistering speed from both sides.
Every time he's gotten in the ring, the past few years, everybody has been telling him to stop. He is not going to stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I think you are right about him letting himself be drawn into a bad situation. I hope it works out for him.