3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
P4P is the way we always rank fighters. It's tough sometimes to really rank one fighter above another. It's very subjective. So I'm thinking about which tier certain fighters fall in.
1st tier: elite fighter that will go down in history as an elite fighter. So basically someone who you think didn't just have a few great fights in a row.
2nd tier: great fighter who has done really well and has had some great fights/wins. Proven that they are legit. They may be too early in their career to hit the elite status.
3rd tier: really good fighter who just hasn't reached that level of greatness but will either get there or just never reached it. Had some good wins but hasn't proven yet that they are great. Or even fallen from greatness
Here are mine (I'm limiting mine to 10)
1st tier: Ward, Crawford, Loma, Chocolatito
2nd tier: Kovalev, GGG, Rigo
3rd tier: Canelo, Spence, Usyk
There are a few others that could be put as 3rd tier like Santa Cruz or Frampton. Inuoe could be up there I just need to watch more of him. Thurman is another one.
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
Crawford and Loma need a standout big name on their record to be considered elite (ignoring alphabet titles and Am accomplishments). Ward has cemented his spot in history, however, if he did a Roy and started getting ironed all over the shop he'd quickly lose that status. Choco is definitely there, the only thing little guys have going for them is as many defences/wins as possible.
GGG will be top tier if he beats Canelo. He's now spent half-a-dozen years with a fearsome reputation as the best middleweight (a glamour weight throughout history) and became the fans "must-see" fighter. All he lacks is a marque name, which Canelo provides.
Canelo should be in the 2nd tier, probably 1st if he beats GGG, although his superior skillset is not as evident as the other top tier guys.
Spence, Usyk and dozens of other top-class talents can't really be judged yet. These guys are more likely to fall from the tree as climb it, they simply haven't had enough top level competition yet.
Thurman, although still unbeaten, is never gonna be great (imo). I think Spence will slaughter him and there's plenty of welters that are 50-50ish with him. That goes for Frampton too.
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
I feel really stupid. I can't believe I totally forgot about MIkey Garcia. He is for sure a second tier fighter
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Crawford and Loma need a standout big name on their record to be considered elite (ignoring alphabet titles and Am accomplishments). Ward has cemented his spot in history, however, if he did a Roy and started getting ironed all over the shop he'd quickly lose that status. Choco is definitely there, the only thing little guys have going for them is as many defences/wins as possible.
GGG will be top tier if he beats Canelo. He's now spent half-a-dozen years with a fearsome reputation as the best middleweight (a glamour weight throughout history) and became the fans "must-see" fighter. All he lacks is a marque name, which Canelo provides.
Canelo should be in the 2nd tier, probably 1st if he beats GGG, although his superior skillset is not as evident as the other top tier guys.
Spence, Usyk and dozens of other top-class talents can't really be judged yet. These guys are more likely to fall from the tree as climb it, they simply haven't had enough top level competition yet.
Thurman, although still unbeaten, is never gonna be great (imo). I think Spence will slaughter him and there's plenty of welters that are 50-50ish with him. That goes for Frampton too.
I've always thought that canelo was overrated. He has always been a good fighter to me. Throughout his whole time at 154, I was never sure that he was the best. I rated him as #1 in the weight class but there seemed to be a few fighters that he didn't fight that I thought had a really possibility to beat him. If he does beat GGG, I will give him credit. Canelo has looked a little more polished this last year or two.
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
Thurman needs to be tier 2, he has beaten very good fighters in front of him. Why the hate?
Thurman beating Spence would put him tier 1.
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
Canelo 3rd tier is being generous, and GGG will put a nail on that coffin.
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
this requires more opinions than lb4lb
what about if there was a league structure
premier league
championship
league one
league two
conference
and there was a promotion and relegation system and you got 3 points for a win and one for a draw
I think that would sort it
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Thurman needs to be tier 2, he has beaten very good fighters in front of him. Why the hate?
Thurman beating Spence would put him tier 1.
Thurman has proven that he is good but I don't think that he has shown that he is a great fighter yet. Even if he did beat Spence, he wouldn't be an elite fighter IMO. He would have to prove quite a bit more to be a 1st tier fighter
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
Elite-contender-prospect pretty much? Unfortunately it still falls under tiers of fuckery and subjectivity. I'd put Linares on a p4p list before Canelo personally. Teddy has Thurman ranked #4 (?) which leads me to believe he is sparring again. Crawford numero uno for me.
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
I still got Chocolatito at #1. I don't feel he lost his last fight. He has the opportunity to right that wrong next month. @Spicoli Linares has rebounded well but those loses are hard to ignore. I think Mikey would spark him.
I like @erics44 idea of a ranking system, thing is with many questionable decisions it gets murky.
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
I still got Chocolatito at #1. I don't feel he lost his last fight. He has the opportunity to right that wrong next month. @
Spicoli Linares has rebounded well but those loses are hard to ignore. I think Mikey would spark him.
I like @
erics44 idea of a ranking system, thing is with many questionable decisions it gets murky.
Unfortunately I lean to agree on Garcia v Linares showdown tomorrow. Garcia off a major rest and arguably fighting at 140+ and sharp as can be. Garcia is proven thus far the total package. Back to back losses via ko will always follow a guy no matter how much they rebound and the DeMarco loss weighs heavy. This is where p4p gets blurry for me though..I just think Linares is a far better boxer than Canelo..skillset, adversity and up until Canelo v Golovkin, Linares is just far more willing and earned 'it' back. Tremendous talent to watch.
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
It is tough because some people get pushed far more than others. I have never thought that Canelo was that good until recently he has impressed me a bit more. He has definitely been pushed more than he deserves though. It's because he is Mexicos only star.
Re: 3 tiers of fighters instead of p4p
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
I still got Chocolatito at #1. I don't feel he lost his last fight. He has the opportunity to right that wrong next month. @
Spicoli Linares has rebounded well but those loses are hard to ignore. I think Mikey would spark him.
I like @
erics44 idea of a ranking system, thing is with many questionable decisions it gets murky.
Unfortunately I lean to agree on Garcia v Linares showdown tomorrow. Garcia off a major rest and arguably fighting at 140+ and sharp as can be. Garcia is proven thus far the total package. Back to back losses via ko will always follow a guy no matter how much they rebound and the DeMarco loss weighs heavy. This is where p4p gets blurry for me though..I just think Linares is a far better boxer than Canelo..skillset, adversity and up until Canelo v Golovkin, Linares is just far more willing and earned 'it' back.
Tremendous talent to watch.
Agree he is awesome to watch. I look at guys like Estrada and Caudras, both bordering P4P in my opinion if not already included. Spence and Thurman have as much claim to P4P as Canelo at this point.
