Re: Jimmy Carter dead at 100
Jimmy Carter did support civil rights and he was an advocate for the environment when it was not fashionable. He achieved a lot more after his presidency and had a remarkable career.
Re: Jimmy Carter dead at 100
Too young to know anything about him but he's the first presidents name I can remember from childhood.
And what an innings. Respect and RIP
Re: Jimmy Carter dead at 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
https://apnews.com/article/jimmy-car...a3eec276020dd7
Former President Jimmy Carter has died at the age of 100. Being old enough to remember when he was President, I can't help but think of the stark contrast between the Presidents of those days, and the Presidents of today... most notably Donald Trump. You couldn't ask for a more colossal difference between the two. Whether you liked Jimmy's presidency or not... whether you agreed with his policies... the point is that he was a President to be respected. He was a dignified man, worthy of respect and admiration.
How sad that the world has changed to the point where we now have to debate whether a guy like Donald Trump makes a good President or not.
Carter got a lot of flak for supposedly being weak-spined... and the blame for the Iran hostage crisis of that time fell squarely on him. Only when Ronald Reagan "came to the rescue" was U.S. image finally rectified in the world's eyes. Not saying it was that simple... but that was the general take at the time. Still... Carter was a man who many looked up to.
R.I.P., Jimmy Carter.
How was the hostage crisis Jimmy Carter's fault?
Re: Jimmy Carter dead at 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
https://apnews.com/article/jimmy-car...a3eec276020dd7
Former President Jimmy Carter has died at the age of 100. Being old enough to remember when he was President, I can't help but think of the stark contrast between the Presidents of those days, and the Presidents of today... most notably Donald Trump. You couldn't ask for a more colossal difference between the two. Whether you liked Jimmy's presidency or not... whether you agreed with his policies... the point is that he was a President to be respected. He was a dignified man, worthy of respect and admiration.
How sad that the world has changed to the point where we now have to debate whether a guy like Donald Trump makes a good President or not.
Carter got a lot of flak for supposedly being weak-spined... and the blame for the Iran hostage crisis of that time fell squarely on him. Only when Ronald Reagan "came to the rescue" was U.S. image finally rectified in the world's eyes. Not saying it was that simple... but that was the general take at the time. Still... Carter was a man who many looked up to.
R.I.P., Jimmy Carter.
How was the hostage crisis Jimmy Carter's fault?
I clearly said that was how people saw it at the time. In actuality, it was more complex than that, and was a result of a situation that had been brewing for some time. The US's longtime support of the Shah of Iran, coupled with the Shah's poor handling of his country's ultra religious sector, apparently created the resentment that eventually resulted in the hostage crisis. Carter was a victim of bad timing, as usually happens in these cases. Fact of the matter is... the hostages didn't come home until Reagan had taken over. Circumstances surrounding that are obviously debatable.
Re: Jimmy Carter dead at 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
https://apnews.com/article/jimmy-car...a3eec276020dd7
Former President Jimmy Carter has died at the age of 100. Being old enough to remember when he was President, I can't help but think of the stark contrast between the Presidents of those days, and the Presidents of today... most notably Donald Trump. You couldn't ask for a more colossal difference between the two. Whether you liked Jimmy's presidency or not... whether you agreed with his policies... the point is that he was a President to be respected. He was a dignified man, worthy of respect and admiration.
How sad that the world has changed to the point where we now have to debate whether a guy like Donald Trump makes a good President or not.
Carter got a lot of flak for supposedly being weak-spined... and the blame for the Iran hostage crisis of that time fell squarely on him. Only when Ronald Reagan "came to the rescue" was U.S. image finally rectified in the world's eyes. Not saying it was that simple... but that was the general take at the time. Still... Carter was a man who many looked up to.
R.I.P., Jimmy Carter.
How was the hostage crisis Jimmy Carter's fault?
I clearly said that was how people saw it at the time. In actuality, it was more complex than that, and was a result of a situation that had been brewing for some time. The US's longtime support of the Shah of Iran, coupled with the Shah's poor handling of his country's ultra religious sector, apparently created the resentment that eventually resulted in the hostage crisis. Carter was a victim of bad timing, as usually happens in these cases. Fact of the matter is... the hostages didn't come home until Reagan had taken over. Circumstances surrounding that are obviously debatable.
The United States trained and equipped a really bad secret police dictatorship that repressed everybody in Iran, not just the religious nuts. Carter just happened to be in charge when it blew up. The circumstances aren't really debatable. The last time we discussed Jimmy Carter was when one of the Reagan people involved in negotiating about the hostages with the new Iranian regime behind Carter's back admitted it, albeit after he'd died.
Add that on to Reagan negotiating arms for hostages later on in his term with the same regime, getting caught and admitting it, or Trump doing something similar with Ukraine, or Nixon with the Vietnamese. Nixon actually had a deep state going. He co opted the CIA and FBI to bug and ratfuck his political enemies, negotiated with North Vietnam during a war for political gain, was caught red handed and the Democrats didn't release the proof because it would have torn the country apart:
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21768668
Something tells me if it had been the other way round the Republicans would have released the information and we'd still be hearing about it half a century later as evidence of why the Democrats are a bunch of traitors.
This shit just presses my buttons, shut up Kirkland.
Have a look at this instead. Which states voted which way in the election Carter won. Quite interesting.
https://i.ibb.co/1Zpkrj6/Gg-Apq-DTXYAAja-UH.png
Re: Jimmy Carter dead at 100
Wow, this is quite a different map from what we saw with Trump. With Carter-Ford, it was mostly east vs west. Interesting, that. With Trump-Harris it was mostly coastal states vs the midwest.
You're obviously a staunch Democrat, and I can see where these issues do push your buttons. Me... I'm neither, as I favor some Democrat viewpoints on some issues... but sympathize with the Republican mindset on others.
What is sad IMO is that the overall quality of leaders on both sides seems to have degraded. Reason why I worded the opening post like I did.
Fact is, fairly or unfairly... that Carter was viewed as a weakling when the hostage crisis in Iran boiled over. But then again... when have the bulk of the American public bothered to analyze the whole story, and all factors involved in the story?
The politics game in the U.S. has unfairly stained more than its share of past leaders, while unfoundedly bolstering others.
Now we got Trump saying all kinds of crazy shit, probably putting smoke screens to deviate people's attention from the other crazy shit he's putting together.
Greenland, Panama, Canada... shit... lately I read he wants to rename the Gulf of Mexico and call it Gulf of America.
Then again... that is who the American er... U.S. people voted for. :cool:
Re: Jimmy Carter dead at 100
By all accounts he was easily what we came to know as a "good man". Naturally so, a genuine article and humanitarian. The guy who tried to break up fist fights with dad jokes and buying the next round for the house. Unfortunately, politics happened. Not being naive but he often had the impression of a "Go-fish" card playing champ sitting down at the highest stakes poker game on Earth. I remember my dad not liking him at all particularly thru the hostage crisis. To his direct time in office, I guess the biggest thing that I recall are the gas lines ;D. Late 70's and all of us kids stuffed in a station wagon trying to time "odds or even" days depending on the last number of your license plate. Iran had been spiraling for a very long time and their war with Iraq was on deck in the Middle east. Carter boycotted 80' Olympics too with Russia invading Afghanistan. Imagine The Mariel boatlift today.
Re: Jimmy Carter dead at 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Wow, this is quite a different map from what we saw with Trump. With Carter-Ford, it was mostly east vs west. Interesting, that. With Trump-Harris it was mostly coastal states vs the midwest.
You're obviously a staunch Democrat, and I can see where these issues do push your buttons. Me... I'm neither, as I favor some Democrat viewpoints on some issues... but sympathize with the Republican mindset on others.
What is sad IMO is that the overall quality of leaders on both sides seems to have degraded. Reason why I worded the opening post like I did.
Fact is, fairly or unfairly... that Carter was viewed as a weakling when the hostage crisis in Iran boiled over. But then again... when have the bulk of the American public bothered to analyze the whole story, and all factors involved in the story?
The politics game in the U.S. has unfairly stained more than its share of past leaders, while unfoundedly bolstering others.
Now we got Trump saying all kinds of crazy shit, probably putting smoke screens to deviate people's attention from the other crazy shit he's putting together.
Greenland, Panama, Canada... shit... lately I read he wants to rename the Gulf of Mexico and call it Gulf of America.
Then again... that is who the American er... U.S. people voted for. :cool:
There's plenty of stuff I'm conservative on and a lot of Democratic stuff that I can't stand. But I think at a minimum leaders of political parties should not negotiate with various regimes behind the current president's back (just happened with Netanyahu keeping the Gaza bombing going until after the election, this by itself undoubtedly cost the Democrats the election considering the fine margins we already discussed. Now he can end the bombing and both Trump and Biden can claim the credit and Israel stay on reasonable terms with both American parties) and should not actively try and wreck various government departments for ideological reasons.
I think functioning non corrupt non traitorous governments are on the whole a good thing and would vote for a political party for these reasons even if they want to do a bunch of lesser stuff that I disagree with. If the other party has a track record of making a mockery of the rule of law, betraying the country in times of war and otherwise then that would rule out me voting for them just on those issues.
The fact that this political party basically exists to redistribute wealth upwards and protect the powerful and moneyed interests at the expense of the rest of the country and, and, the expense of economic growth which would be bigger and is in fact bigger under Democratic policies as the last hundred years prove beyond doubt are secondary but also excellent reasons to vote for Democrats I think.
I think Carter was under attack as weak for not invading Iran but the weak thing would have been to invade. It would have guaranteed him reelection (in a less partisan time Americans would universally have backed their president in a time of war, George HW Bush getting ninety percent approval ratings when he sent the troops into Kuwait for instance a decade later) but Carter knew it was the wrong thing to do (and Iraq in the 2000s proved him right) and I can think of a few presidents since Carter who would have gone for the guaranteed reelection option.
Same with inflation. He knew he had to crack down on it because it was out of control so went into an election with twenty percent interest rates basically guaranteeing him a loss. Nixon reversed course on high rates to give him a chance in 1976 (ha) which I would say was a weak thing. Nixon was actuallly responsible largely for his gas shortages and inflation too by being distracted by Watergate and letting Kissinger handle the Saudi embargo. Kissinger fucked it up and basically caused the price of oil to quintuple overnight. Worth reading about.
https://americanhistory.si.edu/colle...t/nmah_1452723
Carter just happened to be the guy in charge when Iran blew up. Once it did he made the best of a bad job by refusing all calls to invade and then hiking interest rates at the expense of his second term.
Re: Jimmy Carter dead at 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
By all accounts he was easily what we came to know as a "good man". Naturally so, a genuine article and humanitarian. The guy who tried to break up fist fights with dad jokes and buying the next round for the house. Unfortunately, politics happened. Not being naive but he often had the impression of a "Go-fish" card playing champ sitting down at the highest stakes poker game on Earth. I remember my dad not liking him at all particularly thru the hostage crisis. To his direct time in office, I guess the biggest thing that I recall are the gas lines ;D. Late 70's and all of us kids stuffed in a station wagon trying to time "odds or even" days depending on the last number of your license plate. Iran had been spiraling for a very long time and their war with Iraq was on deck in the Middle east. Carter boycotted 80' Olympics too with Russia invading Afghanistan. Imagine The Mariel boatlift today.
An outsider with a strong moral compass who isn't afraid to take on his party's entrenched power brokers and backers is a lot of people's idea of what a president should be. When it happened though people didn't seem to like it much.
