Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Hear me out,
Muhamma Ali was just as much political activist and fighter. When Ali was against the Vietnam war, despite being locked up for dodging the draft, he hit superstar status and became larger than life.
So, if Usyk can strike the right tones with regard to the war in the Ukraine, and perhaps get a condemnation from the Trump administration for it and a possible boxing ban for a year or two, he would come off as an amazing human being that would NEVER be forgotten and hit heights that only Ali has made. Think about it.
Just me writing fantasy scripts in my mind.
:lickish:
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Ali ain't never been on lockup for skippin' the draft, fam
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
No.
Ali was still to hit his prime years and Usyk is at the end of his career. When he retires from boxing he will keep a low profile.
Usyk is not political and stays out of diplomatic world. Ali made statements and you knew where he stood.
Not saying Usyk is wrong but he is not that type of personality that would ever get to Ali level in politics, history and media profile.
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hard-Ar
Ali ain't never been on lockup for skippin' the draft, fam
Muhammad Ali was convicted of draft evasion in 1967 and sentenced to five years in prison, but he never served jail time as his conviction was overturned by the Supreme Court in 1971. So you are right... they let him off, but still made a statement.
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Gotta keep it 100, fam. Usyk already marched for his handlers. Ali never bent the knee. They ain’t cut from the same cloth
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd9aIamXjQI
Given the civil rights struggles of the blacks in the 50's and beyond, it's difficult to blame Ali for his way of thinking.
It was brave of him to sacrifice the peak of his career for his convictions.
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Apples and oranges regarding Usyk and Ali as far as drafted vs volunteering, defending homeland vs sent thousands of miles to fight an increasingly unpopular and undefined war in BF, beginning of career vs end of career so on and so forth. Ali was on the doorstep of superstardom and fame even before refusing the draft but it went meteoric with the turmoil of the 60's and what/who he came to stand for and also stand up to. Not sure what Trump can do to Usyk ;D but it was interesting that the belt of Usyk was presented as sign of goodwill when Ukraine's Zelensky met with Trump, right before Potus got his feels hurt and shit the room up. Guess in a way he's already done his condemnation of Usyk ;D.
Never took enough time to realize exactly how Ali was bulldozed not just socially politically but also within the sport. The politics and boxing was being fused together immediately in the punishment. Literally took his license on the exact same day. Imagination a point where boxing commissions state to state nationwide actually unify...on anything...to ban an athlete for over 3 years. Shit they can't even unify on how to define knockdowns or how to utilize instant replay today ;D. Ali was a lightning rod and had the establishment quacking in their boots.
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Apples and oranges regarding Usyk and Ali as far as drafted vs volunteering, defending homeland vs sent thousands of miles to fight an increasingly unpopular and undefined war in BF, beginning of career vs end of career so on and so forth. Ali was on the doorstep of superstardom and fame even before refusing the draft but it went meteoric with the turmoil of the 60's and what/who he came to stand for and also stand up to. Not sure what Trump can do to Usyk ;D but it was interesting that the belt of Usyk was presented as sign of goodwill when Ukraine's Zelensky met with Trump, right before Potus got his feels hurt and shit the room up. Guess in a way he's already done his condemnation of Usyk ;D.
Never took enough time to realize exactly how Ali was bulldozed not just socially politically but also within the sport. The politics and boxing was being fused together immediately in the punishment. Literally took his license on the exact same day. Imagination a point where boxing commissions state to state nationwide actually unify...on anything...to ban an athlete for over 3 years. Shit they can't even unify on how to define knockdowns or how to utilize instant replay today ;D. Ali was a lightning rod and had the establishment quacking in their boots.
You're absolutely right in your "apples and oranges" comparison. The two cases couldn't be any more different. And yes... Ali was most definitely bulldozed both socially and within his sport. It's almost impossible to overstate the "cojones" it actually took for Ali to refuse to be inducted, and willingly serve his punishment. Come to think of it, I remember a guy that used to be in the forum who hated Ali for that, and even insisted on calling him Clay. There's a video on that, where the interrogator repeatedly calls Ali "Clay"... and Ali immediately corrects him every time. I'm not a fan of basketball players changing their names to "Meta World Peace." But there have been other high profile (serious) athletes who have legally changed their names based on various beliefs. Kareem Abdul Jabbar immediately comes to mind.
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Hear me out,
Muhamma Ali was just as much political activist and fighter. When Ali was against the Vietnam war, despite being locked up for dodging the draft, he hit superstar status and became larger than life.
So, if Usyk can strike the right tones with regard to the war in the Ukraine, and perhaps get a condemnation from the Trump administration for it and a possible boxing ban for a year or two, he would come off as an amazing human being that would NEVER be forgotten and hit heights that only Ali has made. Think about it.
Just me writing fantasy scripts in my mind.
:lickish:
I'm not really going to speak on the political side of Usyk and Ali (for once) because then it's get's into trying to win gold medal at the oppression olympics. I'm going to judge them as fighters
Look. The comparison (as fighters) between Usyk and Ali is simply not warranted (and I really rate Usyk).
Muhammed Ali best wins are prime George Foreman and Joe Frazier, that is top 10 heavyweights of all time. He also beat a very close to prime Sonny Liston, a top 10 heavyweight. There was a 14 year period between Ali winning the Lineal heavyweight title and the last time he held it
Usyk hasn't even had a 14 year career
It would take a much more special fighter than Usyk to eclipse Ali at heavyweight. Usyk is good, but Ali does everything better than him and is simply far more talented. You know how Roy Jones was able to make elite technicians like James Toney and Bernard Hopkins look like mugs? That's that would happen to Usyk once Ali shows he's Usyk's equal in technical ability but has better stamina, faster hands, better foot speed and more power.
And I'm talking about young Ali (Cassisus Clay) not the Ali who fought Foreman or even Frazier, the Ali before the Vietnam sanction
I'm talking this Ali, the 1967 Cleveland Williams - Ali
https://youtu.be/4EmH-HsPY_Y
And as a young man, Ali could fight like that, at pretty much that pace for 15 rounds.
Now, if you were to say Usyk would beat the 2nd coming of Ali ? The slower, less dancing Ali ? That's a fair argument, I still don't think Usyk would, but I'm not as certain. I'm only 70% certain that the older Ali would beat Usyk, Whereas I'm 99% certain the young Ali beats Usyk.
A young Ali was pretty much untouchable before the forced exile from boxing. Mate - I'll take it to the next level. Usyk would not even land a punch on the young Ali (Cassius Clay). I am writing fairytales for my 3 year old. I'm gonna include your post in it lol
Maybe if Usyk went 15 years unbeaten at World title level, we could have a discussion about it.
But it's ironic that both Uysk and Ali share a birthday and are both are six foot three inches in height, have a seventy-eight reach and their optimum fighting weight is between 215 and 220 pounds,
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Denilson3.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Hear me out,
Muhamma Ali was just as much political activist and fighter. When Ali was against the Vietnam war, despite being locked up for dodging the draft, he hit superstar status and became larger than life.
So, if Usyk can strike the right tones with regard to the war in the Ukraine, and perhaps get a condemnation from the Trump administration for it and a possible boxing ban for a year or two, he would come off as an amazing human being that would NEVER be forgotten and hit heights that only Ali has made. Think about it.
Just me writing fantasy scripts in my mind.
:lickish:
I'm not really going to speak on the political side of Usyk and Ali (for once) because then it's get's into trying to win gold medal at the oppression olympics. I'm going to judge them as fighters
Look. The comparison (as fighters) between Usyk and Ali is simply not warranted (and I really rate Usyk).
Muhammed Ali best wins are prime George Foreman and Joe Frazier, that is top 10 heavyweights of all time. He also beat a very close to prime Sonny Liston, a top 10 heavyweight. There was a 14 year period between Ali winning the Lineal heavyweight title and the last time he held it
Usyk hasn't even had a 14 year career
It would take a much more special fighter than Usyk to eclipse Ali at heavyweight. Usyk is good, but Ali does everything better than him and is simply far more talented. You know how Roy Jones was able to make elite technicians like James Toney and Bernard Hopkins look like mugs? That's that would happen to Usyk once Ali shows he's Usyk's equal in technical ability but has better stamina, faster hands, better foot speed and more power.
And I'm talking about young Ali (Cassisus Clay) not the Ali who fought Foreman or even Frazier, the Ali before the Vietnam sanction
I'm talking this Ali, the 1967 Cleveland Williams - Ali
https://youtu.be/4EmH-HsPY_Y
And as a young man, Ali could fight like that, at pretty much that pace for 15 rounds.
Now, if you were to say Usyk would beat the 2nd coming of Ali ? The slower, less dancing Ali ? That's a fair argument, I still don't think Usyk would, but I'm not as certain. I'm only 70% certain that the older Ali would beat Usyk, Whereas I'm 99% certain the young Ali beats Usyk.
A young Ali was pretty much untouchable before the forced exile from boxing. Mate - I'll take it to the next level. Usyk would not even land a punch on the young Ali (Cassius Clay). I am writing fairytales for my 3 year old. I'm gonna include your post in it lol
Maybe if Usyk went 15 years unbeaten at World title level, we could have a discussion about it.
But it's ironic that both Uysk and Ali share a birthday and are both are six foot three inches in height, have a seventy-eight reach and their optimum fighting weight is between 215 and 220 pounds,
Nice write up. But I mean them in terms of the global appeal and iconic status they represent at times of great international upheaval. Usyk can turn the corner and represent a generation if he wanted to.
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Nice write up.
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
But I mean them in terms of the global appeal and iconic status they represent at times of great international upheaval.
But to have global appeal I think Usyk will suffer from what I call "Novak Djokovic" syndrome in that as great as Novak is, he does not have the same global appeal as Federer or Nadal because of snobbery.
Federer and Nadal are from countries that are seen as sexy (Switzerland and Spain) where as Novak is a Serb and even though he has surpassed both Federer and Nadal in terms of slams won and many would say he's better player than the both of them. He'll never have their global appeal and it's the same for Usyk. He's from Ukraine (Not seen as a sexy country)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Usyk can turn the corner and represent a generation if he wanted to.
Problem for Usyk is English isn't his first language and English is the dominant language on the planet
That gives Ali a MASSIVE ADVANTAGE because the world has seen how funny/witty/sharp/outspoken/intelligent/poetic he was where as Usyk's English even now is only a 5 out of 10. Also no other country on the planet exports it's news, sports, music, films as relentless and ferocious as America does.
I mean even SHITE that no one outside of America cares about like the Superbowl is shown around the world. They've been trying to sell the NFL to non- Americans since I was kid. But no one outside of the USA cares about it. Anyway all that means Ali also has the advantage being born in country that has a louder sound system
So because of that that meant that Muhammad Ali was at one point more recognizable than the Beatles or Elvis. Ali was the most loved and hated athlete in the history of sports.
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Denilson3.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Nice write up.
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
But I mean them in terms of the global appeal and iconic status they represent at times of great international upheaval.
But to have global appeal I think Usyk will suffer from what I call "Novak Djokovic" syndrome in that as great as Novak is, he does not have the same global appeal as Federer or Nadal because of snobbery.
Federer and Nadal are from countries that are seen as sexy (Switzerland and Spain) where as Novak is a Serb and even though he has surpassed both Federer and Nadal in terms of slams won and many would say he's better player than the both of them. He'll never have their global appeal and it's the same for Usyk. He's from Ukraine (Not seen as a sexy country)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Usyk can turn the corner and represent a generation if he wanted to.
Problem for Usyk is English isn't his first language and English is the dominant language on the planet
That gives Ali a MASSIVE ADVANTAGE because the world has seen how funny/witty/sharp/outspoken/intelligent/poetic he was where as Usyk's English even now is only a 5 out of 10. Also no other country on the planet exports it's news, sports, music, films as relentless and ferocious that America does. So Ali also has the advantage being born in country that has a louder sound system
So because of that that meant that Muhammad Ali was at one point more recognizable than the Beatles or Elvis. Ali was the most loved and hated athlete in the history of sports.
But Usyk is WHITE... plus he is the heavyweight champion... in addition, everyone hates this Russia/Ukraine war. Even with his broken English he can make an impact.
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
But Usyk is WHITE
And ?
I think you need to think very carefully about what you're going to write next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
... plus he is the heavyweight champion
And ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
... in addition, everyone hates this Russia/Ukraine war. Even with his broken English he can make an impact.
He has made an impact
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Denilson3.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
But Usyk is WHITE
And ?
I think you need to think very carefully about what you're going to write next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
... plus he is the heavyweight champion
And ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
... in addition, everyone hates this Russia/Ukraine war. Even with his broken English he can make an impact.
He has made an impact
Usyk would have a much easier time going over with the media than Ali did during the racist 50s and 60s and 70s America and world. TBTH... Plus, he is the HW champion of the world. He can do more with his platform. He can become a global icon like Ali if he markets himself properly... its all I'm saying.
Re: Can Usyk go to Ali level status?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Denilson3.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
But Usyk is WHITE
And ?
I think you need to think very carefully about what you're going to write next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
... plus he is the heavyweight champion
And ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
... in addition, everyone hates this Russia/Ukraine war. Even with his broken English he can make an impact.
He has made an impact
Usyk would have a much easier time going over with the media than Ali did during the racist 50s and 60s and 70s America and world. TBTH... Plus, he is the HW champion of the world. He can do more with his platform. He can become a global icon like Ali if he markets himself properly... its all I'm saying.
OK I agree with that. Anyway off the gym now
