ufc question--where does ken shamrock stand among the all time greats?

he was one of the pioneers...

Consider who he's beaten. Severn, Kimo (way overrated). But he's also overstayed his welcome and is still fighting waaaay past his prime. It's sad to see a legend at the point where they are getting KO'd. I hope thats not the deal with Hopkins in June.

Personally, I always found Ken a little overrated. He's popular b/c he's a sex symbol. A handsome guy that fights. But he was never the most dominant fighter in the UFC. And he never got a win over Rotce Gracie, but who did?

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Originally Posted by BABABOOEY

Consider who he's beaten. Severn, Kimo (way overrated). But he's also overstayed his welcome and is still fighting waaaay past his prime. It's sad to see a legend at the point where they are getting KO'd. I hope thats not the deal with Hopkins in June.

Personally, I always found Ken a little overrated. He's popular b/c he's a sex symbol. A handsome guy that fights. But he was never the most dominant fighter in the UFC. And he never got a win over Rotce Gracie, but who did?

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i heard that the draw with gracie would have been an easy UD for ken had they had decisions back then....

Personally, I always found Ken a little overrated. He's popular b/c he's a sex symbol :o ???

What difference does that make when the core audience is teenage boys :(

Dude, pay aattention to the crowd at those events. There are plenty of women in those audiences. Ken was the poster boy for the UFC. He was an easier look to sell.

And I will admit, if they had decisions back then, Shamrock would have won the rematch with Gracie.

Its kinda like the Babe Ruth-Hank Aaron thing in baseball. Aaron's the all time leader in home runs and RBI, yet Ruth is the sports most glorified figure.

In their primes, Gracie was in another league from Shamrock, yet he's the guy most talked about since.

another league? Gracie tapped out Shamrock in the first fight but was never able to do anything in the second. If that fight had happened under current rules he would have lost. Ken studied the guard and was simply way better prepared. Ken during his day was one of the top 3 fighters in the world. The MMA game has evolved so much since then and he has only gotten older. He has changed up his training to be more modern but he is just to old to compete with the top tier LHW's. He helped pioneer the sport and was very successful during his first tenure. I wish he had never done the WWF bit. He wasted lots of good years there, but I'm sure his wallet is better for it.

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

another league? Gracie tapped out Shamrock in the first fight but was never able to do anything in the second. If that fight had happened under current rules he would have lost. Ken studied the guard and was simply way better prepared. Ken during his day was one of the top 3 fighters in the world. The MMA game has evolved so much since then and he has only gotten older. He has changed up his training to be more modern but he is just to old to compete with the top tier LHW's. He helped pioneer the sport and was very successful during his first tenure. I wish he had never done the WWF bit. He wasted lots of good years there, but I'm sure his wallet is better for it.

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totally agree..the fact that he is 42 yrs old and still competitive tells u how great he was in his prime

no way that gracie was way above him.......he would have won a wide UD in the rematch and he also beat dan severn too and kimo and bas rutten dont forget

You guys mention how Royce tapped Shamrock out the first fight, but couldnt do anything the second. But why do you only look at it that way? How come you dont consider that in two fights, Shamrock NEVER figured him out? You say Ken figured out the guard, but why then didnt Shamrock make Royce tap out? Its always "Royce woulda lost if they had decisions back then". Well they didn't. And Shamrock couldnt beat him. And thats what matters.

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

he was one of the pioneers...

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his prime was in pancrase

he tapped bas rutten 1ce

would Shamrock be more world renowned if he had never went to the WWF?

I liked Frank better to be honest.

Good point. IMO Frank Shamrock was better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDkYO...earch=pancrase

here is some pancrasean fighting, which is gloveless w/o knuckles, basically palm strikes...

thsi is rutten vs frank shamrock

Well if you guys wanna go with todays rules in the Shamrock vs. Gracie 2 fight...they never would have fought seeing as how Royce is a welterweight and Ken a light heavyweight, even heavyweight. And also by todays rules, the ref would have stood them up alot more because all Ken did was lay and pray. He scored a takedown, and did nothing. He wouldn't have won the decision today, because that fight would never take place like that. And also there are no longer 30 min superfights. So Ken did absolutely nothing to prove he was better than Royce, yesteday or today.

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Originally Posted by BABABOOEY

Consider who he's beaten. Severn, Kimo (way overrated). But he's also overstayed his welcome and is still fighting waaaay past his prime. It's sad to see a legend at the point where they are getting KO'd. I hope thats not the deal with Hopkins in June.

Personally, I always found Ken a little overrated. He's popular b/c he's a sex symbol. A handsome guy that fights. But he was never the most dominant fighter in the UFC. And he never got a win over Rotce Gracie, but who did?

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yea I addmit he waz an alright fighter in my opinion but not great. I didn't and still don't really care to much for ken shamrock