If the "Real Deal" and "The Greatest" would have rumbled in their primes, in a 12 round bout, who would have come out on top? Could Holy's talent, heart, and dedication have overcome the speed, stamina, and iron will of Ali?
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If the "Real Deal" and "The Greatest" would have rumbled in their primes, in a 12 round bout, who would have come out on top? Could Holy's talent, heart, and dedication have overcome the speed, stamina, and iron will of Ali?
prime ali would box on outside and win fairly comfortable ud hoylfield would win 3 rounds at most and neither man would stop eachotherQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
100% agree with ICB..A prime Ali not much bigger than Holyfield at prime and faster better boxer...Holy stalks Ali boxes...Ali UD
Absolutely agree at their primes Ali takes it easy but if they met today I reckon Holyfield might just edge the split decision ..... maybe :P
what about tyson vs ali?
Just the way I see it! :coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Dont start that one off mate. We have had sooo many discussions about that and it NEVER gets resolved, like most of these hypothetical matchup's. BTW welcome to Saddo :coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribax
Ha ha!
Ali either by landslide UD or TKO
;D
I think this is actually a very good hypothetical matchup, and a nightmare matchup stylistically for Ali. He had his greatest struggles with fighters who put pressure on him, and none was more relentless than a prime Evander, who would simply never go backwards. Evander had as good a chin as Ali, and I think he would pull off an upset similar to Frazier in the first fight by outworking Ali to win a hardfought battle on points(I actually view Holyfield as better than Frazier, and capable of going to war with the Ali who reigned before being stripped of his title, and not just the Ali who lost three prime years).
Id favour a Tyson decision. But there is no point in going on about this....ive seen 50 page threads on this bloddy topic!Quote:
Originally Posted by MrB
But people are never going to stop wondering, its best though to just say that a prime Ali and a prime Tyson were both something pretty bloody special and very few fighters will ever come close to their kind of greatness again.Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
cc back mateQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
There's not one single part of boxing that Ali didn't do better than Holyfield. That's not a knock on Holyfield, it's just true. Prime Ali wins a UD over Holyfield. Prime Ali beats every heavyweight in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
The Ali who fought Frazier wasn't the prime Ali. Even the post-exile Ali beats Holyfield. Pre-exile Ali wins easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
I think Ali gets his ass handed to him by the old version of George Foreman.. Thats the fight id want to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
"Rope a dope that "! big George be whisperin in Ali's ear ! LMFAO ! hehe yeah baby !
Quote from: Hulk on Today at 01:31:39 AM
If the "Real Deal" and "The Greatest" would have rumbled in their primes, in a 12 round bout, who would have come out on top? Could Holy's talent, heart, and dedication have overcome the speed, stamina, and iron will of Ali?
There's not one single part of boxing that Ali didn't do better than Holyfield. That's not a knock on Holyfield, it's just true. Prime Ali wins a UD over Holyfield. Prime Ali beats every heavyweight in history.
Excellent point, however I happen to disagree. Ali is better than Evander in all areas on paper, but fights aren't fought on paper, there's all sorts of intangibles that factor into the equation, factors that can turn the tide of a fight, and I also have a feeling that Evander would win. The one constant of boxing, and all sports, is that upsets will happen. There isn't a fighter who ever lived, Ali and Ray Robinson included, who would simply win every hypothetical matchup because they happen to be better. Sometimes, the better overall fighter, being in top shape and at the top of his game, can lose. Of course it wouldn't shock me if Ali boxed Holyfields head off :laugh:, but I think Evander wins.
You're joking, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
The same "old" Foreman who got beaten easily by Tommy Morrison, beaten easily by Holyfield, and barely beat Alex Stewart and Axel Schultz?
The intangibles favored Ali in just about every fight he ever fought, because he has more intangibles than any other fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by clean
Holyfield is a great fighter and has had a great career, but he is no Ali.
you make a good point . Cool ClickQuote:
Originally Posted by clean
speaking of intangibles .. What era would these happen in ??? Thats a huge factor … Ali would not get away with half that shit he did , this day and age. And the way he fought on his heels would have been more of a negative on today’s score cards… … I think Ali has more troubles under today’s jurisdiction ,, When you talk about holding behind the head all day long.. You think of Ali.
;) Cool click in 24 hrs Sweetpea! good read ! O0Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
So when was Holyfeild at his best as a heavy, the 1st Bowe fight or.
Ali beats Holy, not by KO, but by dancing
Thats about right. An Ali without a bounce in his step gets out worked and hustled by Holyfield.
I'd say right out of the crusierweights . about the time of the Douglas Fight Evander was peakingQuote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Good point, Id go with that.
I second that. He wasnt at his most durable, but technically, yep no doubt.
I don't want to come off as the big Holyfield basher in this thread, but how come everyone who picks Holyfield says that he would win because of his heart, determination, desire, hustle, etc, etc.?
Did Ali not have these qualities?
I like this fight too, but I think the silly thing about these debates is that people for some reason think certain fighters were 'unbeatable' at certain times in their careers. As someone on this board once said (can't remember who) but that people always say, 'Tyson in the mid 80s would beat anyone. Roy at 168 would beat anyone. Robinson at 147 would beat anyone. Ali before his 3 year exile would beat anyone.' It's total bullsh!t. People always make sure to say their favorite fighter (or a fighter they have tremendous respect for) was at his prime between dates when he didn't lose, so if someone comes along and offers the opinion that they could be beaten, they retort by saying, 'he wouldn't lose because no one beat him in his prime.' Boxing is about styles and no one who ever lived would dominate all others in their prime. I'm not saying prime Ali would lose, but if he won he'd be leaning over a bucket puking for an hour after the fight after having to leave everything out in the ring to beat a prime Holyfield, or a prime Tyson, or even a prime Lennox for that matter. For the record, I acknowledge Ali as the greatest heavyweight of all time, and Robinson as the greatest p4p fighter of all time, but they were not so far ahead of every other all time great that they could simply walk into the ring and give them all boxing lessons, even in their primes.
I picked Evander and I didn't say he would win because he had more heart or desire than Ali. I said IMO it's a bad style matchup for Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
I'm going to refrain from any other comments on this particular thread . I am not educated enough about Ali in his true prime to give an honest opinion. .. not to mention , I was never a big Ali fan , as un popular as that may be. I liked Joe Frazier and wanted him to tax that Ali ass. ! truth be toldQuote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Subsequently I got Joe Louis as the greatest of all time ! ;) O0
Skyler Every point you make is true. But I dont make SRR the best of all time
Hey Scarp weight in mate ! what do think Ali or Holyfield ?? Is Ali the greatest of all time in your estimation ? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
I think Ali at his best beats Holyfeild at his best. I dont think Ali was the greatest, but hes up there with the best, Fighters have at there best two years is all they have. People have there own opinion when those two years are. remember if it wasnt for venician blinds it would be curtains for us all
cc anyways bro. best of all time is just a matter of opinion and anyone's opinion is valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Have one yourself cc
I agree with that ! nicely done mate nicely done ! O0Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
myyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
gooddddddddddd
This thread is the most craziest, ridiculous and most stupidest thread ever created
Evander holyfield at his best just about barely beat a fat and really old george foreman, when george forman was in his primie holyfield would be out of the ring with 1 punch and his heart wouldn't even count, remember a 45 yr old george forman beat michael moorer this was straighht after holyfield lost against michael moorer, the truth since ali retired the division has absolutely been poor, ali was able to k.o george foreman, when georg was at his peak and ali was considered past his peak at that time, for people like shannon briggs and holyfield and even michael moorer being unable to k.o george foran was absollutely a disgrace, come on people geore foreman was old like hell, shame on all the boxers.
Holyfield been knocked out in prime by riddick bowe, yes the same riddick that couldn't last 2 rounds against lewis or even was getting battered by andrew golata.
And come if bowe could knock holyfield then what would someone like sonny liston do, and don't even raise the topic of if liston or holyfield would win, the only topic that should be raised is thatt did holyfield at his best beat a old fatty foreman or was foreman robbed, or a better topic would be if holyfield beat michael moorer instead of the other way around then could holyfield last the full distance with foremaan or get knocked out like moorer
Battle of the titanium chins, iron wills & big hearts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Holyfield was technically better than Ali, but Ali was a one off.
Evander would not know how to deal with the dancing master IMO
It would not be a walkover, but Ali would win unanimously IMO.
wtf
you gotta be kidding, as much as ali is the greatest of all time, just like that this thread is the silliest of all time
i agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by dmxkolyrics
I think its close enough fight because Holyfield a pretty quick heavyweight, and would tag Ali, but he wouldn't win IMO... he doesnt' quite of the speed, power, or defense that prime Tyson had to beat Ali.
my vote with uQuote:
Originally Posted by powerstorm