Time - 23:00 - 00:00 (1 hour long)
When - Saturday 5th May on ESPN Classic
Clay V Liston.
1964 - Classic archive action from the fight that 'shook up the world'. Reigning champ Liston faces an arrogant, exuberant opponent in young Cassius Clay.
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Time - 23:00 - 00:00 (1 hour long)
When - Saturday 5th May on ESPN Classic
Clay V Liston.
1964 - Classic archive action from the fight that 'shook up the world'. Reigning champ Liston faces an arrogant, exuberant opponent in young Cassius Clay.
I'll be sure to watch.
Bill?
The bout was a 'choreographed fraud'.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Pre-Fight Backroom Discussions
1 > Sonny needed Money
2 > Sonny had his Boxing License yanked from 47 of the 50 States.
3 > The European Boxing Union had banned Sonny in September 1963.
4 > Sonny's handlers {The Nilon Group} wanted out.
5 > Sonny decided to 'play ball'.
Do not listen to bill's bull. The fight was real. Ali at his best.
In your 3rd sentence, you got the young fella's name wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Cassius Clay on February 25, 1964.
Check the signature on the contract.............. Cassius Clay.
He will always be Muhammad Ali to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomIn your 3rd sentence, you got the young fella's name wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Cassius Clay on February 25, 1964.
Check the signature on the contract.............. Cassius Clay.
'Ass-Smoochio'Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe will always be Muhammad Ali to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomIn your 3rd sentence, you got the young fella's name wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Cassius Clay on February 25, 1964.
Check the signature on the contract.............. Cassius Clay.
Are you aware, that he was also ........ 'Cassius X'
He will always be Cassius Clay to me......... See below
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...CJxfrWL9QSxSeQ
Bill is a hard and unforgiving man, but you always know where he stands. That's a good thing.
Thank You Sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
I would like to think that I am 'Fair and Balanced' in my judgment of Mr. Cassius Clay.
I have never said anywhere near the 'bad things' that Cassius Clay had said.
I am, the Scale of Justice.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...HB_QXwnrzc5ZP_
Ali legally changed his name. Sure it was Clay then but it is Ali now. Check yourself. Don't correct others when you are continuously erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomIn your 3rd sentence, you got the young fella's name wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Cassius Clay on February 25, 1964.
Check the signature on the contract.............. Cassius Clay.
Hold on, you pulled 'a boner' there Mr. Lineal.Quote:
Originally Posted by LinealAli legally changed his name. Sure it was Clay then but it is Ali now. Check yourself. Don't correct others when you are continuously erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomIn your 3rd sentence, you got the young fella's name wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Cassius Clay on February 25, 1964.
Check the signature on the contract.............. Cassius Clay.
Cassius Clay started calling himself 'Cassius X' first. Stealing that moniker from Malcolm X.
He never legally changed his name at first.
Make a note of it.
Cassius X is not stealing from Malcolm it was what was done by the group. Just as if someone uses Sugar in boxing does not mean they stole it from Ray Robinson.
Did Ali legally change his name or not? I think you'll find the answer is yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomHold on, you pulled 'a boner' there Mr. Lineal.Quote:
Originally Posted by LinealAli legally changed his name. Sure it was Clay then but it is Ali now. Check yourself. Don't correct others when you are continuously erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomIn your 3rd sentence, you got the young fella's name wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Cassius Clay on February 25, 1964.
Check the signature on the contract.............. Cassius Clay.
Cassius Clay started calling himself 'Cassius X' first. Stealing that moniker from Malcolm X.
He never legally changed his name at first.
Make a note of it.
His Mother,Quote:
Originally Posted by LinealDid Ali legally change his name or not? I think you'll find the answer is yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomHold on, you pulled 'a boner' there Mr. Lineal.Quote:
Originally Posted by LinealAli legally changed his name. Sure it was Clay then but it is Ali now. Check yourself. Don't correct others when you are continuously erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomIn your 3rd sentence, you got the young fella's name wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Cassius Clay on February 25, 1964.
Check the signature on the contract.............. Cassius Clay.
Cassius Clay started calling himself 'Cassius X' first. Stealing that moniker from Malcolm X.
He never legally changed his name at first.
Make a note of it.
Who brought Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. into this World, never accepted it.
That's good enough for me.
Odessa Grady Clay >
"Oh, Cassius has been calling himself all sorts of names since he was little. He wanted to be
Mickey Mantle, then Willie Mays. But he couldn't really play Baseball. He wasn't that good in
Sports, other than Boxing."
"He wanted to be Jack Johnson. Sometimes he wanted to be Jack Dempsey, and other
times it was Floyd Patterson. He always wrote those names on his sweatshirt when he
went to the boxing matches."
"For a while, he was calling himself 'Young Jack Johnson'. I thought that was funny,
because Jack Johnson was really flamboyant, and my son was so reserved and shy."
"But this name changing stuff. Oh it's just a phase to get some publicity. If it doesn't work,
he will come up with another name. But, no matter what, he will always be Cassius to me."
Did he change it legally Bill? No matter how you dress it up, a pig is still a pig. Your wrong. If you wish to continue being wrong that's your prerogative but don't try to correct others when your ignorance keeps you completely awry of the facts.
Mothers are never wrong.
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.XEyI...g&pid=15.1&P=0
Cassius is a beautiful name, Haye named his son after him, but Clay was the slave name which he wanted to change.
Isn't it funny,Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
How 'Young Cassius' suddenly got religion when he found out that his number was
up for the United States Selective Service.
What A Coincidence .............:rolleyes:
Sonji Roi >
"You know, Cassius fell in love with me, for who I was. Then he wanted me to change, to help
him with his problems to get out of his commitment to the United States Selective Service."
"I got the feeling that I was being used as 'a tool'. I was his wife for God's Sake. He wanted me
to stop living, and become his slave. Isn't that a 'Fucking Spin' on his new found righteousness."
He was going to change his name anyway and had nothing to do with the draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomIsn't it funny,Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
How 'Young Cassius' suddenly got religion when he found out that his number was
up for the United States Selective Service.
What A Coincidence .............:rolleyes:
What else did Cassius Clay tell you, that you bought 'hook, line and sinker'.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHe was going to change his name anyway and had nothing to do with the draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomIsn't it funny,Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
How 'Young Cassius' suddenly got religion when he found out that his number was
up for the United States Selective Service.
What A Coincidence .............:rolleyes:
I bet that he could have sold you the Brooklyn Bridge, if he was a 'Bridge Salesman'.
~ Read all about it. Man buys 'Brooklyn Bridge' from Cassius Clay {aka; Muhammad Ali} ~
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.f0RQ...g&pid=15.1&P=0
Bill, you only see the worst in Ali, so there is no talking to you.
You shouldn't let your eyes be clouded by one man's Boxing Talent and Entertainment Value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
How much do you really know about Muhammad Ali.
Just what you read, which was by someone else's opinion. Or what you saw on Television.
That's not knowing anything in 'real' depth.
Unless you knew him personally, you do not know him better than anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomYou shouldn't let your eyes be clouded by one man's Boxing Talent and Entertainment Value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
How much do you really know about Muhammad Ali.
Just what you read, which was by someone else's opinion. Or what you saw on Television.
That's not knowing anything in 'real' depth.
A close family member {Uncle} of mine worked with Cassius Clay.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterUnless you knew him personally, you do not know him better than anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomYou shouldn't let your eyes be clouded by one man's Boxing Talent and Entertainment Value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
How much do you really know about Muhammad Ali.
Just what you read, which was by someone else's opinion. Or what you saw on Television.
That's not knowing anything in 'real' depth.
We know a lot.
Ali was introduced to Black Muslims long before the draft.
Why inject truth?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
One of the many great things about this fight was how the Louiville "lip" fought so many of the top ten contenders.
1962-1963-1964 Ring ratings show who Clay-Ali fought to get to the title and defend the title.
Just Who Did Cassius Clay Avoid On His Rise To The Heavyweight Challenge In February 1964.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
One of the many great things about this fight was how the Louiville "lip" fought so many of the top ten contenders.
1962-1963-1964 Ring ratings show who Clay-Ali fought to get to the title and defend the title.
Actually >
It was his Management {The Louisville Sponsoring Group}, who knew that their fighter was, as we like to put it
'a fabrication' created by good press and a 'well-oiled' Professional Publicity Machine.
So they fabricated the top ten HW's? From what years? Please enlighten us. I like a good laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomJust Who Did Cassius Clay Avoid On His Rise To The Heavyweight Challenge In February 1964.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
One of the many great things about this fight was how the Louiville "lip" fought so many of the top ten contenders.
1962-1963-1964 Ring ratings show who Clay-Ali fought to get to the title and defend the title.
Actually >
It was his Management {The Louisville Sponsoring Group}, who knew that their fighter was, as we like to put it
'a fabrication' created by good press and a 'well-oiled' Professional Publicity Machine.
Ali fought top contenders like Cooper in London. If Floyd could fight an amateur fighting his first professional fight then the bar was not high to be a top contender.
Remember seeing Patterson v Liston 2 and they introduced the number 1 contender which was Ali and he walked into the ring and acknowledged Floyd but not Liston.
~ The Avoid List ~
Presented to you, by the people {The Louisville Sponsoring Group} who brought you Cassius Clay.
~ 1962 and 1963 ~
* A rematch with over-blown Light-Heavyweight - Alonzo Johnson, slated for Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. {No way, no how}.
* A rematch with 'lanky string-bean' - Billy 'The Barber' Daniels. {That won't happen}
* Avoid at all costs ....... Eddie Machen {This would be a foolish choice for now. Eddie is still too slick.}
* Stay away from Ernie 'The Tentacle' Terrell, who 'lumped up' Cassius in a 1962 sparring-session. {No Chance}
* Take no chances with Cleveland 'Big Cat' Williams. {Too big a Risk with that left-hook.}
* Zora Folley, is too dangerous to take a chance on. {Let's wait until he gets real old.}
* Canadian-Hammer ....... Robert CleRoux ........... {Too rough a guy for now.}
* Tony Alongi ........ Too crafty, and little reward for the 'high-risk'. {Dangerous left-jab.}
* A rematch with Doug Jones .......... What, are we 'Fucking Crazy'
* A rematch with Henry Cooper ....... What are we 'Fucking Crazy'
* Ingemar Johansson....... No way will we fight him in Sweden. {Not enough 'kronors' in Stockholm to get us to go to Sweden.}
* George Chuvalo ........... 'Cassius Clay' signed for a December 1963 bout, then pulled out. {Chicken Shit}
You must have all the books on him, by him, and for him by his family,thats really nice,we all like him too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomHis Mother,Quote:
Originally Posted by LinealDid Ali legally change his name or not? I think you'll find the answer is yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomHold on, you pulled 'a boner' there Mr. Lineal.Quote:
Originally Posted by LinealAli legally changed his name. Sure it was Clay then but it is Ali now. Check yourself. Don't correct others when you are continuously erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomIn your 3rd sentence, you got the young fella's name wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Cassius Clay on February 25, 1964.
Check the signature on the contract.............. Cassius Clay.
Cassius Clay started calling himself 'Cassius X' first. Stealing that moniker from Malcolm X.
He never legally changed his name at first.
Make a note of it.
Who brought Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. into this World, never accepted it.
That's good enough for me.
Odessa Grady Clay >
"Oh, Cassius has been calling himself all sorts of names since he was little. He wanted to be
Mickey Mantle, then Willie Mays. But he couldn't really play Baseball. He wasn't that good in
Sports, other than Boxing."
"He wanted to be Jack Johnson. Sometimes he wanted to be Jack Dempsey, and other
times it was Floyd Patterson. He always wrote those names on his sweatshirt when he
went to the boxing matches."
"For a while, he was calling himself 'Young Jack Johnson'. I thought that was funny,
because Jack Johnson was really flamboyant, and my son was so reserved and shy."
"But this name changing stuff. Oh it's just a phase to get some publicity. If it doesn't work,
he will come up with another name. But, no matter what, he will always be Cassius to me."
Andre,
Are you aware that John Astin was a horrible 'Riddler'.
It would be as if .......... Cassius Clay played 'Gomez'
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UDhixQDgX4...-capture-6.png
John really did love Carolyn Jones but alas.
Not True,Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
They were just good friends. Nothing ever happened ..... sexually.
After 'The Addams Family' was cancelled, John Astin 'back-stabbed' Frank Gorshin
and accepted the role of 'The Riddler' in the Batman series.
Frank Gorshin was in contract talks for {Series 2} in late-1966. When the contract talks stalled,
John Astin said he could play 'The Riddler'.
He did, but played it badly in one 'double' Episode {February 8th and 9th, 1967}. The producer
of Batman {William Dozier} cancelled the remaining '3' episodes for The Riddler in Season 2.
He was so bad as The Riddler, that Producer - William Dozier 'begged' Frank Gorshin to come back
for Season 3.
William Dozier >
"I made a few mistakes in 'The Batman' series for sure. But the biggest mistake, was in not locking
up Frank Gorshin as 'The Riddler' for Season 2."
"John Astin was no Riddler. He told me he could play the part, but John was 'horrible'. John was too
slow, and did not have the 'quick response' of Frank Gorhsin. He was too laid back, and his actions
were forced, where Frank Gorshin's were more natural."
"John Astin was not for our series. He was just a 'fill-in'. A mistake for sure."
I didnt say he slept with her or anything of the sort.
She was happily married and John respected that, I said he loved her.
Carolyn Jones ....{ Morticia Adams }Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I never thought much of John other than a comedic actor. When I started on 'The Addams Family',
I was going though a divorce.
John thought that he could move in on me, but I laid down 'the law' right away, and I told him 'hands off the merchandise'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomYou shouldn't let your eyes be clouded by one man's Boxing Talent and Entertainment Value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
How much do you really know about Muhammad Ali.
Just what you read, which was by someone else's opinion. Or what you saw on Television.
That's not knowing anything in 'real' depth.
Have you ever met him Bill?, Have you ever shaken his hand?? Have you ever been in a room that suddenly went silent The Reason ?? The Greatest has arrived
Question 1 ......... Yes ........ Many times.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomYou shouldn't let your eyes be clouded by one man's Boxing Talent and Entertainment Value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
How much do you really know about Muhammad Ali.
Just what you read, which was by someone else's opinion. Or what you saw on Television.
That's not knowing anything in 'real' depth.
Have you ever met him Bill?, Have you ever shaken his hand?? Have you ever been in a room that suddenly went silent The Reason ?? The Greatest has arrived
Question 2 ......... Yes ........ Several times.
Question 3 ......... No room ever went silent.
Muhammad Ali was no Joe DiMaggio.
Went 'Joltin Joe' arrived in a room, everyone was 'awestruck'.
There was a big difference between 'a class act' in a gentleman as {Joe DiMaggio},
and an 'entertainer' as in Cassius Clay.