joe calzaghes recent retirement got me thinkin,who is the greastest ever fighter that retired with an unbeaten record
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joe calzaghes recent retirement got me thinkin,who is the greastest ever fighter that retired with an unbeaten record
Ricardo Lopez , no one else comes close to being as good as him , the complete box/fighter with power and a good chin.
good pick fom what i seen of him the dude looks greatQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Easily Ricardo "Finito" Lopez...
Going with something totally different Ricardo Lopez.
:D
ill be honest i dont no much about him.i no i should tho. i seen clips on youtube.he looks great. can anyone give me the low down of his careerQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
If anyone doesn't say Ricardo Lopez they don't know about boxing, he is easily the best technical fighter of all time. With arguably the best all round game in boxing history.
Sorry, gonna have to take that title then, because I'd have to suggest the pretty boy Floyd Mayweather. Far as I'm concerned he ticks all the boxes for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
He isn't full retired yet but if he does retire yes he has a very good case.Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhunSorry, gonna have to take that title then, because I'd have to suggest the pretty boy Floyd Mayweather. Far as I'm concerned he ticks all the boxes for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Good answer Rhun :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhunSorry, gonna have to take that title then, because I'd have to suggest the pretty boy Floyd Mayweather. Far as I'm concerned he ticks all the boxes for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
We don't know if he is retired yet thats why i didn't mention him. He's only been retired since 2008 its a bit early to consider him a proper "retired fighter"Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboGood answer Rhun :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhunSorry, gonna have to take that title then, because I'd have to suggest the pretty boy Floyd Mayweather. Far as I'm concerned he ticks all the boxes for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
i would say ricardo lopez (never even seen him fight but i am scared to say calzaghe ha ha)
thank god no one said rocky marciano
pls no one say rocky marciano!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone says Joe Calzaghe i will haunt them until the end of time.
Fair enough I suppose, but the same can be said about Calzaghe who inspired this thread. If the big money comes a-calling, I reckon both will come out of retirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Joe CalzagheQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
see cos i typed it in big means its even more true ICB
ha ha
Sven Ottke or Terry Marsh :p
sven ottke he was truely a great fighter, he beat robin reid sensless;)Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Lopez or Mayweather although I can't pick. Don't think any other undefeated champ is even on their level
I like a Lopez but he still had a draw on his record. Its hard to go against 0 when nothing is shadowing it. I would say as of now until its official and he steps in the ring Floyd Mayweather is the man then Joe Calzaghe.
Ricardo Lopez was really great not question, but p4p Mayweather is easily better than him, won more belts in more weight categories, way better quality of opposition, faster, harder to hit, at 130 hit as hard.
people are biased because of how time works, but Mayweather is probably the BEST undefeated fighter to retire then there is a honest arguement between Calzaghe and Lopez. Then Marciano.
Who is the greatest undefeated fighter though has to be Marciano. Way more recognition, way larger legend. Mayweather if he comes back and beats Cotto and Pacquiao in huge fights then it might change in his favor because Marciano was only undefeated because he beat up old greats.
Question Teath were do you rate Mayweather in pound for pound and how great he is i have him in the top 20 were do you place him just to ask i while admit i am not a fan of his and think Shane Molsey in prime would of beat him along with likes of Ray Leonard and Tommy Hearns but still he was achived alot and i while give credit to the man but were do you rate him also i dont think he is to boring now that i watch his earlier work was a way different fighter then the one i see today anyway.
If marciano fought now the way he did back then he would be disqualified for using the less padded bladed area of his gloves like choppers.It would be cheating these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Rocky Marciano is remebered because he was a good heavyweight and he was undefeated in a division that used to be the top division that and i hate to say this and dont take it the wrong way i am sure some of you while but he was white also which helped his case alot as well.
Not sure ,I dont think he got any handed to him did he?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
tough times anyway, he must have been a hard assed bast just to be in there with that bunch.Got to give him credit he took good shots too.
Rocky Marciano i think was great but by today standards be more like a CW and still think he do great i dont know may be just me but think the mob was envoled with Rocky not sure about this but any how i not saying he was not a great fighter or did not win all his fights fair and square but some people rate him really high to the point were i think him being white champion who was undefeated had a effect on his status if he were black and did what he did would still get the credit maybe he would maybe he wouldnt i dont know just a thought dont read to much into it.
Lots of Lopez fans but nobody has justified his status.
Which all-time great fighters did he beat?
Which fighters were P4P ranked when he beat them?
What makes his WBC strawweight reign superior to Sven Ottke's IBF reign?
Im gonna say Floyd Mayweather
Mick's post here sums it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Something that annoys me is when people say he didn't have hall of fame competition which is why his record is not impressive.
The thing is the lower weights especially Straweight is not on the same boat as the rest of the divisions. This is mainly in the lower weights.
Here's what I mean, fighters in the lower weights get title shots sooner/earlier in their careers then they do at the higher weights.
So you'll look at a Straweights record and it'll look like 21-3 and you'll say well what a short career. But when you actually study his record you'll see he fought something like 6 title bouts won 3 lost 3 and beat some top names. That may not look to be hall of fame career compared to Hagler or Duran but again it's because the careers at the lower weights seems to be shorter. Take Petelo for example his career ended at 17-5-2 hardly a monstrous career decorated with longevity but again look closer you'll see he fought Sor Vorapin, Jamili, Rubillar, Zolile & Lopez. He defended his IBF title 5 times before loosing to Lopez. That resume to me is a hall resume again considering the way careers go at the lower weight.
I think the Hall needs to update/revise a lot of things as far as their induction requirements. You can't measure careers when the lower weights are not on the same boat it's unfair to them IMO.
Anyway back to Lopez and his opposition.
I think he fought the best opposition available to him Ohashi, Saman, Kermin, Sanchez, Alvarez, Grisby, Vorapin & Petelo.
IMO all hall material for the small guys. So to me when I read things like he never fought top/hall opposition I just can't help but think that the people want to see opponents who had long careers with titles and all that but it's not the case.
Even today I mean in recent times did Calderon have any hall of fame names? Shit I just remembered he himself fought the same Sanchez, Lopez fought yrs. ago...
He moved up in weight and fought Cazares whos the biggest name on his resume. Yutaka himself, his best win is over Chana other then that he's got top names. I think Yutakas def. hall for a Straweight...
Well i while agree with fenster makes a point what fighters did Lopez beat that were any greater then what Calzaghe beat which i have not seen anyone bring up is who is it that he beat which made him all time great i think Evander Holyfeild had better wins and moved up so much in weight yet he gets like no credit in pound for pound list makes me nuts.
Mickey Rourke (lol)
Well all i can say to what you and cut say ice is if your going to make a thing for lower weight fighters then yo got to do something for the Heavyweight because when it comes to pound for pound enless you are Ali they get no credit at all Holmes,Lennox,Foreman and Holyfeild when comes to pound for pound get no credit which i think is lame.
yeah i dont no much about the dude. i first started boxing when i was 14. but i only started watchin boxing from the hatton tyzsu fight onwards.forgive me my saddo brothers. we all got 2 start somewhere rightQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
One thing that separates Lopez & Mayweather from Calzaghe for me is that when they had a debatable decision or draw (Castillo & Alvarez) they made sure they had a rematch with that opponent & put in a performance that left no room for doubt. Calzaghe can say he doesn't do rematches but then why did he fight Mario Veit twice. I think the fact that he didn't have rematches with Reid & Hopkins weighs against him heavily in this respect
Calzaghe v Hopkins was just plain ugly....and would you have traded a rematch for the destruction of Pavlik by the executioner. As for Robin Reid, by the time Calzaghe would have considered the rematch, he'd lost a WBU title shot and was fighting for minority tiles and was out of the real world reckoning, fighting on the secondary circuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
Reid turned down the rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
And there's no way Hopkins would travel to Britain for Calzaghe. Did you read his ignorant comments after their fight?
It was more Calzaghe's attitude afterwards of why should I give him a rematch that pissed me off, & whilst I enjoyed B-Hop's destruction of Pavlik, I would've liked to see em do it again because I thought Hopkins won the first match & I think it would've been a fitting send-off for the both of em if they were to fight 1 more time. Also I don't think there is an excuse for him not fighting Reid again (I do think he Joe just edged the fight), he still would've been better than some of the jokes the Joe was fighting. Don't get me wrong I think Joe is a great champ, but he's just short of Mayweather & Lopez' level because of that & also because I don't think he is as talented a boxer as either of them technically. Similar to how I wouldn't even class Marciano anywhere near Joe's level.Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhunCalzaghe v Hopkins was just plain ugly....and would you have traded a rematch for the destruction of Pavlik by the executioner. As for Robin Reid, by the time Calzaghe would have considered the rematch, he'd lost a WBU title shot and was fighting for minority tiles and was out of the real world reckoning, fighting on the secondary circuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBMick's post here sums it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Something that annoys me is when people say he didn't have hall of fame competition which is why his record is not impressive.
The thing is the lower weights especially Straweight is not on the same boat as the rest of the divisions. This is mainly in the lower weights.
Here's what I mean, fighters in the lower weights get title shots sooner/earlier in their careers then they do at the higher weights.
So you'll look at a Straweights record and it'll look like 21-3 and you'll say well what a short career. But when you actually study his record you'll see he fought something like 6 title bouts won 3 lost 3 and beat some top names. That may not look to be hall of fame career compared to Hagler or Duran but again it's because the careers at the lower weights seems to be shorter. Take Petelo for example his career ended at 17-5-2 hardly a monstrous career decorated with longevity but again look closer you'll see he fought Sor Vorapin, Jamili, Rubillar, Zolile & Lopez. He defended his IBF title 5 times before loosing to Lopez. That resume to me is a hall resume again considering the way careers go at the lower weight.
I think the Hall needs to update/revise a lot of things as far as their induction requirements. You can't measure careers when the lower weights are not on the same boat it's unfair to them IMO.
Anyway back to Lopez and his opposition.
I think he fought the best opposition available to him Ohashi, Saman, Kermin, Sanchez, Alvarez, Grisby, Vorapin & Petelo.
IMO all hall material for the small guys. So to me when I read things like he never fought top/hall opposition I just can't help but think that the people want to see opponents who had long careers with titles and all that but it's not the case.
Even today I mean in recent times did Calderon have any hall of fame names? Shit I just remembered he himself fought the same Sanchez, Lopez fought yrs. ago...
He moved up in weight and fought Cazares whos the biggest name on his resume. Yutaka himself, his best win is over Chana other then that he's got top names. I think Yutakas def. hall for a Straweight...
This doesn't really answer my questions (no disrespect Mick).
It highlights that the smaller weight divisions are WEAK in numbers.
Lopez has no great legends on his resume, right?
Lopez has no P4P great wins on his resume, right?
Yet we have people on this thread claiming Lopez is not allowed to be questioned.
What other great fighters are NOT judged by their opposition?
Without a doubt the greatest undefeated boxer of all time is Mason DixonQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBMick's post here sums it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Something that annoys me is when people say he didn't have hall of fame competition which is why his record is not impressive.
The thing is the lower weights especially Straweight is not on the same boat as the rest of the divisions. This is mainly in the lower weights.
Here's what I mean, fighters in the lower weights get title shots sooner/earlier in their careers then they do at the higher weights.
So you'll look at a Straweights record and it'll look like 21-3 and you'll say well what a short career. But when you actually study his record you'll see he fought something like 6 title bouts won 3 lost 3 and beat some top names. That may not look to be hall of fame career compared to Hagler or Duran but again it's because the careers at the lower weights seems to be shorter. Take Petelo for example his career ended at 17-5-2 hardly a monstrous career decorated with longevity but again look closer you'll see he fought Sor Vorapin, Jamili, Rubillar, Zolile & Lopez. He defended his IBF title 5 times before loosing to Lopez. That resume to me is a hall resume again considering the way careers go at the lower weight.
I think the Hall needs to update/revise a lot of things as far as their induction requirements. You can't measure careers when the lower weights are not on the same boat it's unfair to them IMO.
Anyway back to Lopez and his opposition.
I think he fought the best opposition available to him Ohashi, Saman, Kermin, Sanchez, Alvarez, Grisby, Vorapin & Petelo.
IMO all hall material for the small guys. So to me when I read things like he never fought top/hall opposition I just can't help but think that the people want to see opponents who had long careers with titles and all that but it's not the case.
Even today I mean in recent times did Calderon have any hall of fame names? Shit I just remembered he himself fought the same Sanchez, Lopez fought yrs. ago...
He moved up in weight and fought Cazares whos the biggest name on his resume. Yutaka himself, his best win is over Chana other then that he's got top names. I think Yutakas def. hall for a Straweight...
This doesn't really answer my questions (no disrespect Mick).
It highlights that the smaller weight divisions are WEAK in numbers.
Lopez has no great legends on his resume, right?
Lopez has no P4P great wins on his resume, right?
Yet we have people on this thread claiming Lopez is not allowed to be questioned.
What other great fighters are NOT judged by their opposition?
The offer to Reid was made purposely low to make sure Reid turned it down. And it came a year after there first fight. Reid wanted and deserved a rematch right away. Calzaghe never really wanted Reid again. I'm sure you know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterReid turned down the rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
And there's no way Hopkins would travel to Britain for Calzaghe. Did you read his ignorant comments after their fight?