The Old Timers....who are your favorites?

So who in the pre-modern era of boxing, we'll say Pre-1930 are your favorite fighters? Why do you like them and what about them intrigues you? I know there is usually very little if any film of these guys, but there was a lot written about these guys and not only did they have big personalities, they had the COOLEST nicknames.

A couple of my favorites:

'The Boston Strong Boy' John L. Sullivan

'The Human Windmill'/'The Pittsburgh Windmill'/'The Smoke City Wildcat' Harry Greb

'The Boilermaker' James J. Jeffries

'Gentlemen Jim' Jim Corbett

'The Singular Senegalese' Battling Siki (birth name: Amadou Barik Fall)

'The Boston Tar Baby'/'The Boston Bonecrusher'/'The Boston Terror' Sam Langford

'Old Master' Joe Gans

'The Ghost with the Hammer in His Hand'/'The Mighty Atom'/'The Tylorstown Terror' Jimmy Wilde


So do you guys have any favorites?

There's a recent biography on Bob Fitzsimmons that I'd like to check out. Fitzsimmon's was an early example of a boxer puncher. Stalking while looking for an opening, and could feint and hit hard with both hands. Interestingly enough, I heard that Joe Gans followed Fitz throughout his exhibitions in the U.S. Gans studied Fitz, which contributed to Gans straight hitting, and intelligent boxing. It might be interesting to read Joe Gan's article that in a newspaper: STRAIGHT HITTING GETS BOXERS PLUMS; Champion Joe Gans Tells Why He Has... - Article Preview - The New York Times

Jack Dempsey is one of my favorites. He was a terrific hitter, and the bobbing and weaving was his signature. By the way you can download his autobiography, Jack Dempsey By the Man Himself, in the Boxing Books thread in the subsection of Ask the Trainer.

Tommy Loughran is another boxer that I like. I've only seen the highlight clips from his Mickey Walker and Jimmy Braddock fights on youtube, but I can say that he was very cunning and methodical fighter. He had that funny pawing left, usually feinting and drawing with it, but damn if anyone could even lay a hand on him. He has very quick and educated footwork. He knew exactly how he appeared to his opponent, and therefore could play both sides of the chess board. There was an interesting interview that he gave in Peter Heller's book, you can read about it here: Tommy Loughran - In This Corner Forty World Champions Tell Their Stories by Peter Heller

Benny Leonard is another cerebral fighter that I greatly admire. You can see an intense portrait of him in my avatar. He was extremely clever, and very sharp. I've only seen parts of his fight with Lew Tendler on youtube, but he shows plenty of intelligence and grit. He had nose like a sundial and fought in a very competitive era against amazing fighters yet came out of it without a crook in his nose or a scar on his face. That alone tells a lot about his skill as a fighter.

That's just a few names of some fighters that I liked from that era, and I'm running a little short on time to talk about the rest. Anyways not so much to pedal my stuff here, but here's an excellent collection of boxing books that stretches throughout many different eras, including the one that this thread is about: http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ee-ebooks.html I recommend the books by Georges Carpentier, and Battling Nelson. Very interesting books, Carpentiers books should be adapted into a movie, and Nelson's book in particular was funny. ;D

Jem Mace. He is actually the great great great and maybe even more great grandfather of my best friend. I have looked up quite a great deal about him and the guy interests me. If you get chance there is a lot of info in old boxing books and if the old guys interest you he has quite an interesting life story.

Jack Johnson because not only was he so good in the ring but he was ahead of his time all around, he knew how to promote himself, how to draw a crowd......

Jim Corbett- he ushered in the gloved era as HW champion really, he was the first real boxer that did more then just toe the line as far as HWTs go...too bad he was a racist fuck but aside from that he had a lot of influence on boxing

John Sullivan- Boxings first hw superman

Jack Dempsey the non pareil- Won more fights on skill then brute force...

I never have seen him, but going by his record through out nearly all of the weights imaginable and reports of his fights saying he fought heavies from a much lower weight and that he came out unblemished after a solid career, I'd like to see Len Harveys style.

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Originally Posted by Andre

I never have seen him, but going by his record through out nearly all of the weights imaginable and reports of his fights saying he fought heavies from a much lower weight and that he came out unblemished after a solid career, I'd like to see Len Harveys style.

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I would love to see Harry Creb the human windmill in action too.

mines would be tyson or hagler a just love watching the 2 of them fight

Stanley Ketchel, the Julian Jackson of his era.
Jack Sharkey who fought two greats Joe Louis and Dempsey.

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Originally Posted by eleven

mines would be tyson or hagler a just love watching the 2 of them fight

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Umm, eleven. Did you happen to read the beginning of this section. I don't think Tyson or Hagler fought prior to 1930.

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Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat

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Originally Posted by eleven

mines would be tyson or hagler a just love watching the 2 of them fight

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Umm, eleven. Did you happen to read the beginning of this section. I don't think Tyson or Hagler fought prior to 1930.

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lol shit sorry ppl must of missed that bit

Good post Lyle ...... its tough rating these guys as the sport was so very different then. The fighters fought under different rules, with less specialist training, very regularly indeed.

Your list is a good one ....... I have always been fascinated by Stanley Ketchell but there were some fabulously skilled guys around then .... Joe Jeanette, Harry Greb, Tom Cribb, Gunboat Smith, Harry Mendoza, James Figg and as you say, the incomparable Sam Langford.

If anyone thinks that its only in modern times that fighters have been touched by tradegy .... check out the life story of the great great Tom Molyneoux (apologies for the spelling)

Battling Siki seems a character, more eccentric than Eubanks with a tragic death.

I read that according to James Toney, Siki was one of the fighters that Bill Miller had him study.

I for sure thought Andre would have mentioned Sydney's own Young Griffo (Albert Griffiths). He was quite a fellow indeed, he hated training, he loved drinking, and rumor has it he used to go into a bar much like his Heavyweight counterpart John L. Sullivan and challenge anyone in the house....only what Griffo did instead of beating the crap out of some poor working class guy and taking his money to buy booze like a common bully is he'd unfold his hankerchief, lay it on the floor and say "Any man what can knock me off this kerchief I'll buy a drink for, and anyone that can't buys a drink for me!"

Here's some film of Siki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP69CPRwFjA

Sam Langford
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2jtZ31rOlQ

Stanley Ketchel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzAitWvgkNE

Joe Gans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML5WLvrc0P8

Kid Chocolate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEh3IBo_RIg

Hope you guys can get past the fact that those aren't the greatest quality, but still interesting.

Thanks for that last post Lyle. I haven't seen that Kid Chocolate fight until you posted it. Beautiful.

Edit: By the way, I was just looking up how much punches Joe Gans and Battling Nelson threw a round and found this article from cox's corner: Busting The Modern Myth!

The rest of the figures are fascinating as well, such as Sam Langford having more KO's than Tyson and Foreman combined.

Jimmy Wilde and alot of the others already mentioned as well.

The Manassa Mauler Jack Dempsey.

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n...180/MAULER.jpg

Couple of nice highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_AsOroeb8w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmaPxa-eZss
.

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Originally Posted by Master

Battling Siki seems a character, more eccentric than Eubanks with a tragic death.

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I was right about to mention Siki. If anyone hasn't read Battling Siki, the biography by Peter Benson, you have to. Great read.

Jack Dempsey. I simply love the way this guy fight's. The bell rings he works from beginning to end without stopping.

One that always interested me was Jersey Joe Walcott but hew didn't fight until 1930.

Dempsey looks a mean MF!

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Originally Posted by Master

Dempsey looks a mean MF!

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He was one of the roughest, toughest, hungriest desperados to ever step into a boxing ring. Aggression, meanness and an electrifying a performer as has ever laced up a pair of gloves. Probably the most famous sportman of his era.

Rocky Graziano and Jake Lamotta.

Dempsey Marciano and Louis.

I gotta go with Bob Fitzsimmons. Never knew what the skinny dude would come up with next. Obviously I am going on reputation. I am old, but not old enough to remember him. LOL

From what I've read and highlights I've seen of them; Jack Johnson & Kid Chocolate.

Joe Walcott, Harry Greb, Gene Tunney and George Dixon also come straight to mind pre 1930.

Terrible Terry McGovern had a short but intense career, that sometimes gone unnoticed.

Sammy Langford is arguably a top five all-time great.

I read up on Jem Mace, a huge influence on modern boxing. Without Mace, there would be no sport as we know it today, Mace was not just Boxing's but Sport's first global superstar.

I got a Battling Siki book at home, a pretty hard read, but the Norfolk fight sounds brutal...

Ike Williams is another old timer I really like watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByQnTlv5VHw

Would love to have seen Benny Lynch, I have posted a link for some info onhim. Alas an all too familiar story for him at the end though.

Benny Lynch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One thing about reading the Ring was they respected old time fighters and re-told their legendary stories.

The great Harry greb...and with one eye blind!
Shame theres no fight footage of him:-\

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Originally Posted by teflonden

The great Harry greb...and with one eye blind!
Shame theres no fight footage of him:-\

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Didn't he die trying to get a nose job.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by teflonden

The great Harry greb...and with one eye blind!
Shame theres no fight footage of him:-\

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Didn't he die trying to get a nose job.

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Lol yes but nose job sounds so superficial. It was just a simple septoplasty that went wrong.

I have a real interest in Georges Carpentier, probably most well known for his fight with the great Jack Dempsey, but a very good champion in his own right.



He was more a forties fighter but I think Willie Pep is our sports No.1.

I know this won't sound too "boxing fan-ish", but I think had I been around for the pre-1930's crowd, I probably wouldn't have been too big a fan of boxing. I realize sports evolutionize in general.... boxing, football, basketball, etc. But I'm just not a fan of the straight forward, plodding, style that used to be the norm in those days. There were great champions to be sure, but they were among fighters of the same style, same movements. Take a time machine, and send back a great boxer-puncher from the 60's or later... and the guy would be an undefeated beast. I could be wrong and I'm not dissing the fighters from that era. It just wasn't my cup of tea. Then again, I think the same way about other sports as well.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I know this won't sound too "boxing fan-ish", but I think had I been around for the pre-1930's crowd, I probably wouldn't have been too big a fan of boxing. I realize sports evolutionize in general.... boxing, football, basketball, etc. But I'm just not a fan of the straight forward, plodding, style that used to be the norm in those days. There were great champions to be sure, but they were among fighters of the same style, same movements. Take a time machine, and send back a great boxer-puncher from the 60's or later... and the guy would be an undefeated beast. I could be wrong and I'm not dissing the fighters from that era. It just wasn't my cup of tea. Then again, I think the same way about other sports as well.

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You're generalizing to a shocking extent, not everyone was a straight forward brawler as you suggest ESPECIALLY in the 1920's-1930's there were great and I mean GREAT pure boxers in those eras.

Benny Leonard
Gene Tunney
Barney Ross
Kid Chocolate
Tony Canzoneri

There were plenty of slick boxers and defensive specialists in the old times, defense and counter punching didn't JUST come around in the 1960's.

Benny Leonard was slick as a cat. I got that reading the Ring article I remember.

The rules of the sport were just different back then Tito, most fights in most states had to end by knockout or be declared a draw. Go on boxrec and look at some oldtime records and you'll see a lot of 'Newspaper Decisions', those were official draws but newspapermen had rendered verdicts but titles couldn't be won on a newspaper decision. So guys were much more apt to go for the KO even if others did have slick styles like some mentioned. Few guys though were sucessful as very pure boxers, some were though. Philadelphia Jack Obrien was but he had a whole sophisticated character outside the ring to bring interest to his fighting style. He touted himself as a refined gentleman type and boxed like one too.

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Originally Posted by Master

Benny Leonard was slick as a cat. I got that reading the Ring article I remember.

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I think all of the fighters trained by Ray Arcel were very solid on defense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSxreC59N9c

He died in the ring but not fighting, refereeing...quite odd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrAs0Tyo5g


Here's some Philadelphia Jack for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQFoxxAeywg