just watched this it brought back some great memories and reminded me of some big debates ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXeIlFz7J2E
just watched this it brought back some great memories and reminded me of some big debates ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXeIlFz7J2E
No doubt, an atg. At least top 30 in boxing history and 1 of the greatest southpaws in the sport.
Hmmmm......where is hornfinger to derail this thread?
I really need to watch Pac - JMM I.
Pacquiao is an amazing talent. He doesn't have as much skill as someone like Mayweather, but his desire to fight the best and his incredible tenacity makes him the best fighter of this generation.
Top 20 ATG without a doubt.
I was not a believer until he smashed Cotto, I know, I was pretty late but he looked limited against JMM and thought the other fighters would be too big for him. Still think Floyd will beat him.
I've never seen that vid. That one is well updated.
Good find El hefe!
He definitely has some good skills, but Mayweather will show the world next year if he isn't thrown in jail for too long who the real top 10 p4p fighter of all time is, in this generation. He would maybe Cotto and Margarito look like fools in the right, same with CLottey. It's just too bad he will never get a chance. I actually think the better boxers have proven that Pacquiao's boxing ability isn't that good, I mean Cotto was outboxing him until he was worn out from damage, but who knows what would have happened with pre-Margarito Cotto. I don't think it took away from Cotto's speed and timing, but it did affect his power and chin.
awesome vid.
and Taeth gonna Taeth, obv.
Floyd is a scared homosection. He'll never fight Manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
While I feel that Mayweather is the more talented fighter, Pacquiao is going to be remembered as the much better fighter because of his resume, his willingness to constantly take on new challenges, and his lack of general dumbfuckery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Floyd is a scared homosection. He'll never fight Manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I wasn't going to quite say that but yeah you are right...Floyd had every opp to fight Manny...Floyd found every reason not to...Those who are too hung up on the Floyd wanting the sport to be clean and fair so that is why he wants the testing done when he says etc is looking blinded by Mayweather...
Floyd give nothing about Boxing he can care less if the sport crumbled tomorrow as long as he has made enough money to recoup his losses thus far....Floyd doesn't care about coming in overweight so he cares about PEDS? give me a break....
Mayweather has to be in control of things...he can not help it it is who he is....If Floyd cant get his way 100% if fucks up his mind psyche....he needs to feel like he is running the show and is pulling everyones strings...It amuses him and it makes him feel powerful...when not allowed to it mind fucks him...he feels like he has lost it....
Floyd could have fought Manny.....Many Many Many times over....,
Sorry but my family is broke, I lost my money to the govt, I have LEGAL ISSUES AS IS....I lost my sponsors.....I am on my way to jail....But that is all OK because I wont fight a guy who might use PEDS....Oh and by the way I am the one who started the rumor so now I am not even sure if I believe he is using...
The only reason the Mosley fight went off is because Shane had an issue in the past and since he has made great strides to make sure it would not happen again...Shane is a world caliber fighter who will fight anyone...Plus he is a top notch guy who knew that if he denied Floyd would try to start a smear campaign against him as well....Those rants are to make Floyd look like the good guy not to make Floyd the guy who wants a clean sport....
A woman beater, a thief, a man who steals from his own children's home, a man who hits his ex in front of or whole his children are present...A man who makes racist videos for youtu8be...a guy who grew up middle class all the way but pretends to be from the hard streets....A man who has not carefully picked out his opp since 2002 in the Castillo fight
This is the hero? This is the man who everyone should aspire to be like:o...,The sooner Floyd and his family are away from boxing the better...The only good Mayweather is a Jeff Mayweather...The rest are drug addicts, women beaters and bullshit artist....Not my opinion their public actions speak their descriptions as facts
Crazy thing is as you watch the fights and the years progress he gets better and better each time out....There is no such thing as an "OK" performance from Manny Pacquiao...He is just going to go all out in the best style he can...Plus he has started to use defense...Man the longer Floyd waits to fight him the worse it gets for FloydQuote:
Originally Posted by Saddo
Awesome, awesome fighter. The fight with Mayweather just has to happen. If not it will be the greatest fight not to happen in boxing IMO. I still think Mayweather would be too much for Pac though. Manny was in 2 great battles against the second best counter puncher in the world in Marquez!! Mayweathers counter punching genius for me is where Mayweather will take control and I truly feel that if the fight does happen it will be Mayweathers last so he'll look to go out on a high and leave the sport on his most convincing win over the man that a lot of people feel will beat him.
This fight MUST happen for the sake of boxing, only thing is, what do we look forward to after it does??
Oscar Larios? Jorge Solis? I agree Manny has looked better and better, but I think part of that is effective strategic planning on the part of Roach and Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnCrazy thing is as you watch the fights and the years progress he gets better and better each time out....There is no such thing as an "OK" performance from Manny Pacquiao...He is just going to go all out in the best style he can...Plus he has started to use defense...Man the longer Floyd waits to fight him the worse it gets for FloydQuote:
Originally Posted by Saddo
Oscar was shot when he faced Manny because for whatever reason he couldn't rehydrate. Cotto wasn't the same offensive force he was a few years before, and Clottey's style was tailor made for Manny to beat. I think they had the perfect strategy to beat Hatton. Now I think Manny has to be a great fighter to accomplish what he did, but he definitely had circumstantial advantages when he faced them.
Not to what you wrote, but what somebody else did. I simply think Floyd didn't want to fight in 2010 again. The more he has been in the spotlight, the more it seems Floyd gets stressed out by it. Across his whole career there have been times where he has been less dedicated to fighting often than necessarily the opponents he has foughten. I think Mayweather has faced plenty of opposition, clearly not like Manny has, but Floyd has beaten at least 8 future hall of famers. That is more than almost anyone else except Manny of this era.
Yes its true if this fight happens now, I could agree Floyd can win easily, but he's already middle aged boxer sometimes reflexes are diminishing when you start at 34-35 ish like Roy Jones ala cat reflexes before, still Mayweather cant be ignored a genius in the ring.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnCrazy thing is as you watch the fights and the years progress he gets better and better each time out....There is no such thing as an "OK" performance from Manny Pacquiao...He is just going to go all out in the best style he can...Plus he has started to use defense...Man the longer Floyd waits to fight him the worse it gets for FloydQuote:
Originally Posted by Saddo
Still in doubt in Pacquiao now ,he's been too many wars. to me not long maybe after Margarito he's already a shot fighter. In his last 2-3 fights, his training pushing to the limits fighting bigger men causing some injuries although his team said theres no problem.
Somehow, the more I think about it, the more I give Manny a good run against Mayweather. I agree that skill wise, Mayweather is the best. However, the recipe to beat Mayweather lies in lot of pressure, lot of speed volume in punching and good power. Castillo in their first fight should have won, he unsettled Mayweather by being very aggressive and throwing loads of shot. Hatton made quite well in the first few rounds with his bull pressure, only to get beaten by lack of skill. Pacquiao is a different beast though, he has speed the two others didn't have, a much better firepower and he can throw shots endlessly without tiring. And when he lands, it hurts. If he nailed down Cotto, Marquez or the very durable Morales, he can sure knock down Mayweather. I could imagine a fight where Mayweather wins the first few rounds based on skills but get hurt in the middle run by some of the shots that will eventually land to be knocked out toward the end of the fight. At least, PAcquiao has all the very rare and hard to combine ingredients to make it happen.
there is no question pbf is far more superior than pac boxing skills wise. and to add to what nameless said pbf got rocked by mosley. it only shows that pbf can get hit and with the right punch will probably go down. but if they fight im sure pbf will still win even though im a huge pacfan there is no denying that pbf's skills might be enough to beat my idol.
on the other hand i think pac will win against margarito its going to be similar to pac odlh.
taeth,
odlh had no plans to bulk up on fight night, if memory serves me right their plan was to go down in weight weeks before the fight and stay there. instead of dealing with losing weight then gaining it back again they decided to just lose it all so odlh can match pacs speed.
we often say that pac won cause the opponent has some kind of problem. but aint it fair to say that pac made those opponents lose? odlh looked old and slow cause pac peppered him with lighting fast punches? or cotto back peddling cause pac tagged him? and cotto realized that pac can hurt him or clottey acting like a punching bag cause pac doesnt allow him to throw much?
pac is just that good, he makes his opponents look like noobs.
Well yes you have valid points with the oppponents Manny faced and how they were choosen but the same can be said for Floyd...They both have some really big names they made sure they caught at the right time...I agree with Floyd being stressed out by the media but then again he seeks the media out? Kind of catch 22?....Floyd is stressed by the media because he is not really sure how to act.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethOscar Larios? Jorge Solis? I agree Manny has looked better and better, but I think part of that is effective strategic planning on the part of Roach and Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnCrazy thing is as you watch the fights and the years progress he gets better and better each time out....There is no such thing as an "OK" performance from Manny Pacquiao...He is just going to go all out in the best style he can...Plus he has started to use defense...Man the longer Floyd waits to fight him the worse it gets for FloydQuote:
Originally Posted by Saddo
Oscar was shot when he faced Manny because for whatever reason he couldn't rehydrate. Cotto wasn't the same offensive force he was a few years before, and Clottey's style was tailor made for Manny to beat. I think they had the perfect strategy to beat Hatton. Now I think Manny has to be a great fighter to accomplish what he did, but he definitely had circumstantial advantages when he faced them.
Not to what you wrote, but what somebody else did. I simply think Floyd didn't want to fight in 2010 again. The more he has been in the spotlight, the more it seems Floyd gets stressed out by it. Across his whole career there have been times where he has been less dedicated to fighting often than necessarily the opponents he has foughten. I think Mayweather has faced plenty of opposition, clearly not like Manny has, but Floyd has beaten at least 8 future hall of famers. That is more than almost anyone else except Manny of this era.
Inj truth nif Floyd was just "FLOYD" the Floyd I have met away from fans the Floyd that is known to give back to his community the guy would the this era most popular fighter....Floyd does not likie the villan role just with the way he gets around the media it is one that he finds easier to play
...add the southpaw style and weird angle punches factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...add the southpaw style and weird angle punches factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Indeed. Not saying he will win but I would definitely give him a run at the win. And a serious one.
YouTube - HUGEADVANTAGE's Channel
Please take a gander, a really good analysis IMO;)
Some great pointers there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlik
I'm sure Roach is well aware of it. They even mock Floyd's shoulder roll in this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Z26LMbd-4&feature=player_embedded
('already posted it in the other thread. But what the heck)
no doubt pacquiao is a great fighter but he's only one of the many great fighters past and present. i would agree that he's probably right now a top 25-30 all-time p4p fighter. but he still needs to do alot more things before he can be considered anywhere near the top 10. for those of you who think mayweather is "scurred" of pacquiao, let's wait until the end of 2011 before we make that assumption. this is no indictment on pacquiao but i seriously think mayweather is much will better than him and will beat him convincingly. many great fighters throughout history have had questions about them and pacquiao is certainly one of them. such as:
a. why oh why does he continue to get matched up with fighters who are on the way down and not in their absolute primes.
b. why oh why didn't he ever accept that 3rd fight with marquez? a vast majority of experts, writers and fans believe pacquiao clearly lost that fight. hell, even the philippine media thought he lost. and since he's their major super hero, well, you can make your conclusions on that one.
c. why did he fight the GREAT david diaz (paper champ) before whilst casamayor, marquez, juan diaz, campbell, and others were available.
d. why does he insist on fighting AND demanding catchweight fights? the great one never demanded them. they fought on their own merits and accomplishments and not with some kind of unfair advantage.
e. why won't he take that stupid blood test? what does he have to hide? you mean to tell me YOU would turn down $40-50 mil before you're scared of needles? come on, some people have rocks in their noggin and would believe anything, but not this fan.
f. and if margarito is supposedly way past his prime and pacquiao will go through him like butter, why then did pacquiao first agree to fight at a catchweight of 151 but later on complained and have it changed to 150? this is bullshit and unless you're a pacquiao nuthugger, you should agree as well.
g. finally, if he, pacman, was willing to give an absolute washed up, morales a trilogy, why oh why did he balk into giving a very dangerous marquez one? is this the mark of a superior ATG? Hmmmm!!!
well, there you go. i think pacquiao is a great fighter but i still have many, as do others, lingering questions about this guy. and to MORALES, no,this is NOT a racial thread. so don't turn me in to the moderators and try to have me banned. okay?
oh, and congrats to rigoberto "es espanol" alvarez, older brother of "canelo" alvarez for winning the vacant WBC jr. middleweight title last night against a japanese opponent. this makes the 11th world champ mexico has won this year and he becomes mexico's 112th native born world champion.
and no, THIS IS NOT A RACIAL THREAD!
Answers:Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
a. They're only washed up fighters after Pac destroys them.
b. Both fights could have gone either way. Both outcome were razor thin. Respect it or not, imho Pac won both of those fights.
c. True. David Diaz was a paper champ. Team Pac was just testing the waters at higher weight class. And when Roach found out Pac could take on bigger opposition... they challenged DLH for megabuck/megaevent fight. 28 out of 30 boxing writers picked DLH to walk all over Pac btw.
d. He started at 106. I hate catchweight. But it's good way to make a high profile fight possible while leveling the playing field.
e. Pac made a statement that Floyd is not the boss of him. But when the public demand kept building up, then that was the moment Pac fully agreed to Mayweather's conditions - including full random drug test.
f. Marg is a natural 147-154 fighter and could show up 165-170 at fight night. So guess who's doing someone a favor.
g. You can't say Pac is avoiding JMM cuz they already fought twice. Neither of them is retired, so the third fight is remain to be seen. I believe it's a great subtitute for Pac-May fight for next year.
Yepee! Good for him. But WTF is that got to do with this thread? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
PSL,
because i was lazy to start another thread and decided to mention rigoberto alvarez winning a title. that's all! ;D
PSL,
a. do you actually in your mind think morales wasn't past his prime and a shot fighter when pacquiao won that 3rd fight? do you actually think de la hoya wasn't drained and way past his prime? what about hatton? funny how pacquiao beat mayweather's leftovers (oscar/hatton) and you think pacquiao did this great deed in beating these two. :rolleyes:
b. okay wise guy, everyone knows pacquiao walks on water in the philippines, right! so why is it then that the vast majority of pinoy boxing writers said pacquiao lost it. even your very own nonito donaire thought pacquiao lost. hmmmm!
c. it doesn't matter how many boxing writers thought oscar would have beaten pacquiao. they also didn't know oscar would have been a walking zombie either, did they? if pacquiao's team wanted to "test the waters" at lightweight, then why did they go for the weakest paper champion? if they truly wanted to "test the waters", they would have put him in with a non-title holder. truth is this, they just wanted that paper championship to better market pacquiao. nothing more, nothing less!
d. i am sick and tired of pacman's fans saying "he started at 106". well, guess what sonny, he's no longer 106 lbs.. many fighters in history started at a lower weight class only to fully grow into maturity at a higher weight. stop with this "but he's only a jr. flyweight" crap cause it isn't gonna fly anymore. the only reason he was fighting at that weight class was to get an unfair advantage over the much shorter flyweights, and he paid dearly for by getting KTFO twice by total bums.
e. this is a lie (about pacquiao agreeing fully to those blood tests) and you know it. mayweather's team NEVER negotiated with pacquiao again after pacquiao refused those blood tests. bob arum, with his PR machine wanted to save pacquiao a little face time by saying there were direct negotiations. arum made these lies up and you know it. again, quit believing everything you read. and tell me, when he made all those excuses (afraid of needles, gets weak, superstitious) and then turns around and does a complete 180 and agrees to the tests, are you really going to believe this crap? so all of the sudden he wasn't superstitious anymore, or afraid of needles etc...and you're buying that crap? pleeeese! :rolleyes:
f. hey einstein, this bogus fight is for a world title! what favor are you talking about. last time i checked, jr. middleweight's limit is at 154 and not 150 lbs. they might as well start making additional weight classes for pacquiao. if you were a true boxing fan, you would have to agree with me. if pacquiao thinks margarito is too big for him then why take the fight? i'll tell you why he did, it's because pacquiao has to have an unfair advantage in most of his fights. if pacquiao beats margarito, what's going to happen when he has to defend his title? go up to the next weight (middleweight) and demand another catchweight? what if paul williams is the no.1 contender at jr. middleweight? you think roach is going to risk pacquiao fighting williams? hell no, roach is much too cunning for that. this is why boxing is losing it's credibility. do you actually think the title pacquiao won vs. cotto is truly legit? you know, fighters of yesteryear would never have fallen for this crap. real, true boxing fans know better. hell, if any mexican fighter EVER demands a catchweight title fight, i will be the first to curse him out. i don't play that crap because i believe a boxer should win a title legitimately within the rules and not be given unfair advantages. i'm surprised cotto's fans aren't saying much about cotto's catchweight loss to pacquiao. i would have been livid if it were me. but then again, my guess is maybe some cotto's fans have tasted the pacquiao kool aid and like it!
g. look, the only reasons why pacquiao fought marquez twice was because marquez both times was the champion. but seriously now, whenever two great warriors fight a very controversially disputed fight, it's their duties as warriors to settle the dispute to see who really is the better fighter. take the marquez/vazquez trilogy, now those two little guys are true warriors. vazquez didn't have to take that 4th fight because the first three were so very hotly disputed and even though he had a 2-1 lead, many fans still thought marquez was better than him. but like a true warrior, he decided to take that 4th fight even though he physically hadn't really recovered from his trilogy. same with pacquiao, after that 2nd marquez fight, there was still ALOT of doubt as to who really won. about 75 pct. of all boxing writers worldwide thought marquez won. pacquiao should have manned up and taken that 3rd fight to erase that doubt. but now it's too late because marquez is already 37 years old and clearly on the downside of his career. but knowing pacquiao's past, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he suddenly decided to accept that long awaited 3rd fight. just a hunch!
I'm going to have to agree here, I think your absolutely right.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
I'll address some of it for fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
A: It's true Morales wasn't in his prime, but neither was Pac entering it yet. Regardless he took 2 out of 3. And if there was a hypothetical matchup of the 2 in their absolute prime and best, not too many people will say Morales beats Pac prime for prime, especially not with the way Erik likes to exchange.
B: I also thought Pacquiao lost it, for the 2nd fight. The 1st fight I thought he won. Regardless 2 very close fights. And close fights are not considered to be robberies. If you want to talk robberies, see Chavez-Whitaker.
C: De La Hoya got what he deserved for cherry picking a guy that had fought over 130 pounds only once in his career. In fact Oscar should have fought Margarito like he promised, but hey he thought it would be an easy money making fight for him beating up on Pacquiao. About Diaz, it's a fight to test the waters and eventually go on to fightiing the rest of the 135 pounders, but then Oscar offered a fight with him, then Pac went on to better things, it is rare in boxing today for a guy to all of a sudden move up and fight an elite fighter at the new weight class.
D: He started at Jr. flyweight as a 16 year old kid, you're making it sound like he wanted to start his career there to have an unfair advantage in having the physical tools.
E: Ross Greenburg the president of HBO sports did back up Arum and say negotiations took place when Ellerbe came out and said no such thing happened. It hasn't been verify but according to insiders Manny agreed to take the full test.
F: I'm not a fan of catchweight fights also, but it is what it is since Leonard started the bullshit in the 80s and other fighters have done the same thing.
You said you would curse a Mexican fighter out if he demanded a catchweight fight? The greatest Mexican boxer of all time weight drain Pernell Whitaker to 145 pounds for his WBC strap and got outboxed for 10 out of 12 rounds in San Antonio, most unbias boxing fans saw it as a 1 sided victory for Sweetpea. And De La Hoya, an Mexican-American fighter weight drain Hopkins to 156 pounds for his MW titles in 2004. You know you ain't cursing them.
I think Floyd realizes it makes him more money, but it probably also stresses the shit out of him always maintaining that facades, and we can see that it probably has become part of who he is, but I am guessing he probably hates that fact deep down, I don't see how anyone could like being that person.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnWell yes you have valid points with the oppponents Manny faced and how they were choosen but the same can be said for Floyd...They both have some really big names they made sure they caught at the right time...I agree with Floyd being stressed out by the media but then again he seeks the media out? Kind of catch 22?....Floyd is stressed by the media because he is not really sure how to act.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethOscar Larios? Jorge Solis? I agree Manny has looked better and better, but I think part of that is effective strategic planning on the part of Roach and Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnCrazy thing is as you watch the fights and the years progress he gets better and better each time out....There is no such thing as an "OK" performance from Manny Pacquiao...He is just going to go all out in the best style he can...Plus he has started to use defense...Man the longer Floyd waits to fight him the worse it gets for FloydQuote:
Originally Posted by Saddo
Oscar was shot when he faced Manny because for whatever reason he couldn't rehydrate. Cotto wasn't the same offensive force he was a few years before, and Clottey's style was tailor made for Manny to beat. I think they had the perfect strategy to beat Hatton. Now I think Manny has to be a great fighter to accomplish what he did, but he definitely had circumstantial advantages when he faced them.
Not to what you wrote, but what somebody else did. I simply think Floyd didn't want to fight in 2010 again. The more he has been in the spotlight, the more it seems Floyd gets stressed out by it. Across his whole career there have been times where he has been less dedicated to fighting often than necessarily the opponents he has foughten. I think Mayweather has faced plenty of opposition, clearly not like Manny has, but Floyd has beaten at least 8 future hall of famers. That is more than almost anyone else except Manny of this era.
Inj truth nif Floyd was just "FLOYD" the Floyd I have met away from fans the Floyd that is known to give back to his community the guy would the this era most popular fighter....Floyd does not likie the villan role just with the way he gets around the media it is one that he finds easier to play
I honestly think that while Floyd hasn't had the big names that Pacquiao has had during his career that Floyd hasn't sculpted his career the way some would have you believe. I just think people ignore facts
130- Floyd fought Hernandez and Corrales the two most dangerous guys at that weight.
135- FLoyd should have foughten Casamayor, but he fought a better fighter in Castillo, and fought him twice.
140- Floyd fought Gatti who more people than would be willing to admit thought would present problems for Floyd, but Tszyu wouldn't fight Floyd, and I honestly think Floyd already had Oscar in his sights and knew time was running out.
147- Floyd fought Judah because they were friends I think this was planned long before Judah lost to Baldomir, but Floyd I think felt it would be a good money making fight for him.
Then he fought Baldomir for the same amount of money he would have received against Margarito whom nobody knew about at that point, and Floyd was fighting the linear welterweight champion of the world, and if you look back at magazines and Emmanuel Steward they thought this would be an extremely difficult fight for Floyd to win.
154- Floyd fought Oscar after Oscar disposed of Mayorga in a devastating fashion in the worst beat down of Mayorga's life. Later even Mosley who would go on to KO Margarito didn't look anywhere near as good in stopping Mayorga. Anyways, back to my point Oscar who IMO was far better than given credit for at that time gave one of the best performances of his career, and was far better opponent then Margarito who was beaten by Paul Williams around then.
back to 147
-Paul Williams wasn't well enough known, Cotto was about to face Mosley and had beaten up Judah, but in a fight he looked very vulnerable in. Hatton p4p was the best option for Floyd, and yes Hatton was bigger than Floyd on fightnight, and Floyd beat Hatton at his game. He stood in the pocket and outboxed Hatton on the inside.
-retirement I think Floyd honestly needed a break and he was stressed out then for hte same reasons beforementioned.
-I think Marquez was a difficult guy to come back against, and the best guy outside of Pacquiao in the sport. I think the size and everyone were blown out of proportion as Floyd wasn't that much bigger than Marquez in the ring, he was about 4 pounds heavier and an inch or two taller, I think it was Floyd's skill against that particular style that showed just how good Floyd really is.
-Then Floyd faced Mosley who many, many people felt would beat the crap out of Pacquiao, and IMO he still would give Pacquiao one hell of a run for his money, but besides being hurt early I think Floyd showed that he was vastly superior to a guy most people overestimated, at least in comparison to Floyd.
I think Floyd's career has been plagued with his victories being underappreciated, just like his opponents. The time and place Pacquiao beat his opponents never seems to get mentioned while Floyd's are constantly brought up. Pacquiao fought an older Barrera, Morales, and Marquez. He fought Cotto after Margarito, and Hatton after Mayweather. He faced a De La Hoya who wasn't there physically and a Clottey who wasn't there mentally(not just against him though). I still think Manny is amazing, but the stars aligned just right for his career to look the way it has. Floyd would have come out the same amount of fights with Barrera, Morales, and Marquez with no defeats and would be called the greatest 130 pounder ever. I think Pacquiao beats all the same opponents he faced except De La Hoya in their prime, but I think Floyd beats them worse.
People want to talk about Pacquiao starting his career at 16, but that was against crap, Floyd at that age was facing the best amateurs in the states. If Floyd had been allowed and wanted to go pro at 15-16 he would have as many belts in as many weight classes as Manny has.
We have different views on Manny Pacquiao as a fighter. He has experienced both losing and winning on his career. Some says he's the best and some he's not.
As I though that he has been so good on accepting new challenges on his career. Whatever downfall, he always stand out inorder to surpass it and look at him today. He's one of the best fighter. Also, he managed his money earnings very well. ;D
The bolded part doesn't make sense especially when you said Pac fought an older version of Marquez. So the Marquez Pac fought in '04 and '08 is an older version than the one Floyd fought last year? The Morales victories can be questioned, but not he Barrerra one. Barrera was either top 3 or 5 p4p and on a 9 or 10 fight win streak at the time. Althought Barrera was not in his absolute prime, he wasn't that far remove from it, he was still good enough to beat Morales the 3rd fight who would go on to beat Pac later in their 1st fight. So i don't know how anyone can question the legitimacy of that win.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethI think Floyd realizes it makes him more money, but it probably also stresses the shit out of him always maintaining that facades, and we can see that it probably has become part of who he is, but I am guessing he probably hates that fact deep down, I don't see how anyone could like being that person.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnWell yes you have valid points with the oppponents Manny faced and how they were choosen but the same can be said for Floyd...They both have some really big names they made sure they caught at the right time...I agree with Floyd being stressed out by the media but then again he seeks the media out? Kind of catch 22?....Floyd is stressed by the media because he is not really sure how to act.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethOscar Larios? Jorge Solis? I agree Manny has looked better and better, but I think part of that is effective strategic planning on the part of Roach and Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnCrazy thing is as you watch the fights and the years progress he gets better and better each time out....There is no such thing as an "OK" performance from Manny Pacquiao...He is just going to go all out in the best style he can...Plus he has started to use defense...Man the longer Floyd waits to fight him the worse it gets for FloydQuote:
Originally Posted by Saddo
Oscar was shot when he faced Manny because for whatever reason he couldn't rehydrate. Cotto wasn't the same offensive force he was a few years before, and Clottey's style was tailor made for Manny to beat. I think they had the perfect strategy to beat Hatton. Now I think Manny has to be a great fighter to accomplish what he did, but he definitely had circumstantial advantages when he faced them.
Not to what you wrote, but what somebody else did. I simply think Floyd didn't want to fight in 2010 again. The more he has been in the spotlight, the more it seems Floyd gets stressed out by it. Across his whole career there have been times where he has been less dedicated to fighting often than necessarily the opponents he has foughten. I think Mayweather has faced plenty of opposition, clearly not like Manny has, but Floyd has beaten at least 8 future hall of famers. That is more than almost anyone else except Manny of this era.
Inj truth nif Floyd was just "FLOYD" the Floyd I have met away from fans the Floyd that is known to give back to his community the guy would the this era most popular fighter....Floyd does not likie the villan role just with the way he gets around the media it is one that he finds easier to play
I honestly think that while Floyd hasn't had the big names that Pacquiao has had during his career that Floyd hasn't sculpted his career the way some would have you believe. I just think people ignore facts
130- Floyd fought Hernandez and Corrales the two most dangerous guys at that weight.
135- FLoyd should have foughten Casamayor, but he fought a better fighter in Castillo, and fought him twice.
140- Floyd fought Gatti who more people than would be willing to admit thought would present problems for Floyd, but Tszyu wouldn't fight Floyd, and I honestly think Floyd already had Oscar in his sights and knew time was running out.
147- Floyd fought Judah because they were friends I think this was planned long before Judah lost to Baldomir, but Floyd I think felt it would be a good money making fight for him.
Then he fought Baldomir for the same amount of money he would have received against Margarito whom nobody knew about at that point, and Floyd was fighting the linear welterweight champion of the world, and if you look back at magazines and Emmanuel Steward they thought this would be an extremely difficult fight for Floyd to win.
154- Floyd fought Oscar after Oscar disposed of Mayorga in a devastating fashion in the worst beat down of Mayorga's life. Later even Mosley who would go on to KO Margarito didn't look anywhere near as good in stopping Mayorga. Anyways, back to my point Oscar who IMO was far better than given credit for at that time gave one of the best performances of his career, and was far better opponent then Margarito who was beaten by Paul Williams around then.
back to 147
-Paul Williams wasn't well enough known, Cotto was about to face Mosley and had beaten up Judah, but in a fight he looked very vulnerable in. Hatton p4p was the best option for Floyd, and yes Hatton was bigger than Floyd on fightnight, and Floyd beat Hatton at his game. He stood in the pocket and outboxed Hatton on the inside.
-retirement I think Floyd honestly needed a break and he was stressed out then for hte same reasons beforementioned.
-I think Marquez was a difficult guy to come back against, and the best guy outside of Pacquiao in the sport. I think the size and everyone were blown out of proportion as Floyd wasn't that much bigger than Marquez in the ring, he was about 4 pounds heavier and an inch or two taller, I think it was Floyd's skill against that particular style that showed just how good Floyd really is.
-Then Floyd faced Mosley who many, many people felt would beat the crap out of Pacquiao, and IMO he still would give Pacquiao one hell of a run for his money, but besides being hurt early I think Floyd showed that he was vastly superior to a guy most people overestimated, at least in comparison to Floyd.
I think Floyd's career has been plagued with his victories being underappreciated, just like his opponents. The time and place Pacquiao beat his opponents never seems to get mentioned while Floyd's are constantly brought up. Pacquiao fought an older Barrera, Morales, and Marquez. He fought Cotto after Margarito, and Hatton after Mayweather. He faced a De La Hoya who wasn't there physically and a Clottey who wasn't there mentally(not just against him though). I still think Manny is amazing, but the stars aligned just right for his career to look the way it has. Floyd would have come out the same amount of fights with Barrera, Morales, and Marquez with no defeats and would be called the greatest 130 pounder ever. I think Pacquiao beats all the same opponents he faced except De La Hoya in their prime, but I think Floyd beats them worse.
People want to talk about Pacquiao starting his career at 16, but that was against crap, Floyd at that age was facing the best amateurs in the states. If Floyd had been allowed and wanted to go pro at 15-16 he would have as many belts in as many weight classes as Manny has.
And at 15-16 he fought shit opponents, because maybe he didn't have an amateur career? Regardless, he still became a lineal champ at flyweight as a 19 year old teenager. In fact there is maybe 3 or 4 other guys in boxing history to accomplish that feat, to become the man at a division in their teenage years. That is one hell of an accomplishment at that age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethI think Floyd realizes it makes him more money, but it probably also stresses the shit out of him always maintaining that facades, and we can see that it probably has become part of who he is, but I am guessing he probably hates that fact deep down, I don't see how anyone could like being that person.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnWell yes you have valid points with the oppponents Manny faced and how they were choosen but the same can be said for Floyd...They both have some really big names they made sure they caught at the right time...I agree with Floyd being stressed out by the media but then again he seeks the media out? Kind of catch 22?....Floyd is stressed by the media because he is not really sure how to act.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethOscar Larios? Jorge Solis? I agree Manny has looked better and better, but I think part of that is effective strategic planning on the part of Roach and Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnCrazy thing is as you watch the fights and the years progress he gets better and better each time out....There is no such thing as an "OK" performance from Manny Pacquiao...He is just going to go all out in the best style he can...Plus he has started to use defense...Man the longer Floyd waits to fight him the worse it gets for FloydQuote:
Originally Posted by Saddo
Oscar was shot when he faced Manny because for whatever reason he couldn't rehydrate. Cotto wasn't the same offensive force he was a few years before, and Clottey's style was tailor made for Manny to beat. I think they had the perfect strategy to beat Hatton. Now I think Manny has to be a great fighter to accomplish what he did, but he definitely had circumstantial advantages when he faced them.
Not to what you wrote, but what somebody else did. I simply think Floyd didn't want to fight in 2010 again. The more he has been in the spotlight, the more it seems Floyd gets stressed out by it. Across his whole career there have been times where he has been less dedicated to fighting often than necessarily the opponents he has foughten. I think Mayweather has faced plenty of opposition, clearly not like Manny has, but Floyd has beaten at least 8 future hall of famers. That is more than almost anyone else except Manny of this era.
Inj truth nif Floyd was just "FLOYD" the Floyd I have met away from fans the Floyd that is known to give back to his community the guy would the this era most popular fighter....Floyd does not likie the villan role just with the way he gets around the media it is one that he finds easier to play
I honestly think that while Floyd hasn't had the big names that Pacquiao has had during his career that Floyd hasn't sculpted his career the way some would have you believe. I just think people ignore facts
130- Floyd fought Hernandez and Corrales the two most dangerous guys at that weight.
135- FLoyd should have foughten Casamayor, but he fought a better fighter in Castillo, and fought him twice.
140- Floyd fought Gatti who more people than would be willing to admit thought would present problems for Floyd, but Tszyu wouldn't fight Floyd, and I honestly think Floyd already had Oscar in his sights and knew time was running out.
147- Floyd fought Judah because they were friends I think this was planned long before Judah lost to Baldomir, but Floyd I think felt it would be a good money making fight for him.
Then he fought Baldomir for the same amount of money he would have received against Margarito whom nobody knew about at that point, and Floyd was fighting the linear welterweight champion of the world, and if you look back at magazines and Emmanuel Steward they thought this would be an extremely difficult fight for Floyd to win.
154- Floyd fought Oscar after Oscar disposed of Mayorga in a devastating fashion in the worst beat down of Mayorga's life. Later even Mosley who would go on to KO Margarito didn't look anywhere near as good in stopping Mayorga. Anyways, back to my point Oscar who IMO was far better than given credit for at that time gave one of the best performances of his career, and was far better opponent then Margarito who was beaten by Paul Williams around then.
back to 147
-Paul Williams wasn't well enough known, Cotto was about to face Mosley and had beaten up Judah, but in a fight he looked very vulnerable in. Hatton p4p was the best option for Floyd, and yes Hatton was bigger than Floyd on fightnight, and Floyd beat Hatton at his game. He stood in the pocket and outboxed Hatton on the inside.
-retirement I think Floyd honestly needed a break and he was stressed out then for hte same reasons beforementioned.
-I think Marquez was a difficult guy to come back against, and the best guy outside of Pacquiao in the sport. I think the size and everyone were blown out of proportion as Floyd wasn't that much bigger than Marquez in the ring, he was about 4 pounds heavier and an inch or two taller, I think it was Floyd's skill against that particular style that showed just how good Floyd really is.
-Then Floyd faced Mosley who many, many people felt would beat the crap out of Pacquiao, and IMO he still would give Pacquiao one hell of a run for his money, but besides being hurt early I think Floyd showed that he was vastly superior to a guy most people overestimated, at least in comparison to Floyd.
I think Floyd's career has been plagued with his victories being underappreciated, just like his opponents. The time and place Pacquiao beat his opponents never seems to get mentioned while Floyd's are constantly brought up. Pacquiao fought an older Barrera, Morales, and Marquez. He fought Cotto after Margarito, and Hatton after Mayweather. He faced a De La Hoya who wasn't there physically and a Clottey who wasn't there mentally(not just against him though). I still think Manny is amazing, but the stars aligned just right for his career to look the way it has. Floyd would have come out the same amount of fights with Barrera, Morales, and Marquez with no defeats and would be called the greatest 130 pounder ever. I think Pacquiao beats all the same opponents he faced except De La Hoya in their prime, but I think Floyd beats them worse.
People want to talk about Pacquiao starting his career at 16, but that was against crap, Floyd at that age was facing the best amateurs in the states. If Floyd had been allowed and wanted to go pro at 15-16 he would have as many belts in as many weight classes as Manny has.
Some good points, some so so and some just what anyother fighter would have /should have done in his situation so it matters none....But I agree on the fact whe it comes to the role he has brought himself into.....As for opponents...If you ever look at shit I post about Floyds resume I alwys add (Floyd has not fought a dangerous opp since his days at 135" meaning since those days he has fought good fighters but he also knew it was the right time to go after them....No so much a bad thing as it has happened through the history of boxing..
Floyd has himself to blame for this. If he is going to be vocal about being the greatest and the number 1 in the planet, then his choice of opponents will be under strict scrutiny. He has to back up his claim. He will definitely be criticized if he is not going to fight the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethI think Floyd realizes it makes him more money, but it probably also stresses the shit out of him always maintaining that facades, and we can see that it probably has become part of who he is, but I am guessing he probably hates that fact deep down, I don't see how anyone could like being that person.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnWell yes you have valid points with the oppponents Manny faced and how they were choosen but the same can be said for Floyd...They both have some really big names they made sure they caught at the right time...I agree with Floyd being stressed out by the media but then again he seeks the media out? Kind of catch 22?....Floyd is stressed by the media because he is not really sure how to act.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethOscar Larios? Jorge Solis? I agree Manny has looked better and better, but I think part of that is effective strategic planning on the part of Roach and Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnCrazy thing is as you watch the fights and the years progress he gets better and better each time out....There is no such thing as an "OK" performance from Manny Pacquiao...He is just going to go all out in the best style he can...Plus he has started to use defense...Man the longer Floyd waits to fight him the worse it gets for FloydQuote:
Originally Posted by Saddo
Oscar was shot when he faced Manny because for whatever reason he couldn't rehydrate. Cotto wasn't the same offensive force he was a few years before, and Clottey's style was tailor made for Manny to beat. I think they had the perfect strategy to beat Hatton. Now I think Manny has to be a great fighter to accomplish what he did, but he definitely had circumstantial advantages when he faced them.
Not to what you wrote, but what somebody else did. I simply think Floyd didn't want to fight in 2010 again. The more he has been in the spotlight, the more it seems Floyd gets stressed out by it. Across his whole career there have been times where he has been less dedicated to fighting often than necessarily the opponents he has foughten. I think Mayweather has faced plenty of opposition, clearly not like Manny has, but Floyd has beaten at least 8 future hall of famers. That is more than almost anyone else except Manny of this era.
Inj truth nif Floyd was just "FLOYD" the Floyd I have met away from fans the Floyd that is known to give back to his community the guy would the this era most popular fighter....Floyd does not likie the villan role just with the way he gets around the media it is one that he finds easier to play
I honestly think that while Floyd hasn't had the big names that Pacquiao has had during his career that Floyd hasn't sculpted his career the way some would have you believe. I just think people ignore facts
130- Floyd fought Hernandez and Corrales the two most dangerous guys at that weight.
135- FLoyd should have foughten Casamayor, but he fought a better fighter in Castillo, and fought him twice.
140- Floyd fought Gatti who more people than would be willing to admit thought would present problems for Floyd, but Tszyu wouldn't fight Floyd, and I honestly think Floyd already had Oscar in his sights and knew time was running out.
147- Floyd fought Judah because they were friends I think this was planned long before Judah lost to Baldomir, but Floyd I think felt it would be a good money making fight for him.
Then he fought Baldomir for the same amount of money he would have received against Margarito whom nobody knew about at that point, and Floyd was fighting the linear welterweight champion of the world, and if you look back at magazines and Emmanuel Steward they thought this would be an extremely difficult fight for Floyd to win.
154- Floyd fought Oscar after Oscar disposed of Mayorga in a devastating fashion in the worst beat down of Mayorga's life. Later even Mosley who would go on to KO Margarito didn't look anywhere near as good in stopping Mayorga. Anyways, back to my point Oscar who IMO was far better than given credit for at that time gave one of the best performances of his career, and was far better opponent then Margarito who was beaten by Paul Williams around then.
back to 147
-Paul Williams wasn't well enough known, Cotto was about to face Mosley and had beaten up Judah, but in a fight he looked very vulnerable in. Hatton p4p was the best option for Floyd, and yes Hatton was bigger than Floyd on fightnight, and Floyd beat Hatton at his game. He stood in the pocket and outboxed Hatton on the inside.
-retirement I think Floyd honestly needed a break and he was stressed out then for hte same reasons beforementioned.
-I think Marquez was a difficult guy to come back against, and the best guy outside of Pacquiao in the sport. I think the size and everyone were blown out of proportion as Floyd wasn't that much bigger than Marquez in the ring, he was about 4 pounds heavier and an inch or two taller, I think it was Floyd's skill against that particular style that showed just how good Floyd really is.
-Then Floyd faced Mosley who many, many people felt would beat the crap out of Pacquiao, and IMO he still would give Pacquiao one hell of a run for his money, but besides being hurt early I think Floyd showed that he was vastly superior to a guy most people overestimated, at least in comparison to Floyd.
I think Floyd's career has been plagued with his victories being underappreciated, just like his opponents. The time and place Pacquiao beat his opponents never seems to get mentioned while Floyd's are constantly brought up. Pacquiao fought an older Barrera, Morales, and Marquez. He fought Cotto after Margarito, and Hatton after Mayweather. He faced a De La Hoya who wasn't there physically and a Clottey who wasn't there mentally(not just against him though). I still think Manny is amazing, but the stars aligned just right for his career to look the way it has. Floyd would have come out the same amount of fights with Barrera, Morales, and Marquez with no defeats and would be called the greatest 130 pounder ever. I think Pacquiao beats all the same opponents he faced except De La Hoya in their prime, but I think Floyd beats them worse.
People want to talk about Pacquiao starting his career at 16, but that was against crap, Floyd at that age was facing the best amateurs in the states. If Floyd had been allowed and wanted to go pro at 15-16 he would have as many belts in as many weight classes as Manny has.
If he hasn't been egocentric, then the boxing fans would have been more forgiving.
The thing is in his career it comes down to where you are biased to and towards and what you want to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerFloyd has himself to blame for this. If he is going to be vocal about being the greatest and the number 1 in the planet, then his choice of opponents will be under strict scrutiny. He has to back up his claim. He will definitely be criticized if he is not going to fight the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethI think Floyd realizes it makes him more money, but it probably also stresses the shit out of him always maintaining that facades, and we can see that it probably has become part of who he is, but I am guessing he probably hates that fact deep down, I don't see how anyone could like being that person.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnWell yes you have valid points with the oppponents Manny faced and how they were choosen but the same can be said for Floyd...They both have some really big names they made sure they caught at the right time...I agree with Floyd being stressed out by the media but then again he seeks the media out? Kind of catch 22?....Floyd is stressed by the media because he is not really sure how to act.....Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethOscar Larios? Jorge Solis? I agree Manny has looked better and better, but I think part of that is effective strategic planning on the part of Roach and Arum.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahnCrazy thing is as you watch the fights and the years progress he gets better and better each time out....There is no such thing as an "OK" performance from Manny Pacquiao...He is just going to go all out in the best style he can...Plus he has started to use defense...Man the longer Floyd waits to fight him the worse it gets for FloydQuote:
Originally Posted by Saddo
Oscar was shot when he faced Manny because for whatever reason he couldn't rehydrate. Cotto wasn't the same offensive force he was a few years before, and Clottey's style was tailor made for Manny to beat. I think they had the perfect strategy to beat Hatton. Now I think Manny has to be a great fighter to accomplish what he did, but he definitely had circumstantial advantages when he faced them.
Not to what you wrote, but what somebody else did. I simply think Floyd didn't want to fight in 2010 again. The more he has been in the spotlight, the more it seems Floyd gets stressed out by it. Across his whole career there have been times where he has been less dedicated to fighting often than necessarily the opponents he has foughten. I think Mayweather has faced plenty of opposition, clearly not like Manny has, but Floyd has beaten at least 8 future hall of famers. That is more than almost anyone else except Manny of this era.
Inj truth nif Floyd was just "FLOYD" the Floyd I have met away from fans the Floyd that is known to give back to his community the guy would the this era most popular fighter....Floyd does not likie the villan role just with the way he gets around the media it is one that he finds easier to play
I honestly think that while Floyd hasn't had the big names that Pacquiao has had during his career that Floyd hasn't sculpted his career the way some would have you believe. I just think people ignore facts
130- Floyd fought Hernandez and Corrales the two most dangerous guys at that weight.
135- FLoyd should have foughten Casamayor, but he fought a better fighter in Castillo, and fought him twice.
140- Floyd fought Gatti who more people than would be willing to admit thought would present problems for Floyd, but Tszyu wouldn't fight Floyd, and I honestly think Floyd already had Oscar in his sights and knew time was running out.
147- Floyd fought Judah because they were friends I think this was planned long before Judah lost to Baldomir, but Floyd I think felt it would be a good money making fight for him.
Then he fought Baldomir for the same amount of money he would have received against Margarito whom nobody knew about at that point, and Floyd was fighting the linear welterweight champion of the world, and if you look back at magazines and Emmanuel Steward they thought this would be an extremely difficult fight for Floyd to win.
154- Floyd fought Oscar after Oscar disposed of Mayorga in a devastating fashion in the worst beat down of Mayorga's life. Later even Mosley who would go on to KO Margarito didn't look anywhere near as good in stopping Mayorga. Anyways, back to my point Oscar who IMO was far better than given credit for at that time gave one of the best performances of his career, and was far better opponent then Margarito who was beaten by Paul Williams around then.
back to 147
-Paul Williams wasn't well enough known, Cotto was about to face Mosley and had beaten up Judah, but in a fight he looked very vulnerable in. Hatton p4p was the best option for Floyd, and yes Hatton was bigger than Floyd on fightnight, and Floyd beat Hatton at his game. He stood in the pocket and outboxed Hatton on the inside.
-retirement I think Floyd honestly needed a break and he was stressed out then for hte same reasons beforementioned.
-I think Marquez was a difficult guy to come back against, and the best guy outside of Pacquiao in the sport. I think the size and everyone were blown out of proportion as Floyd wasn't that much bigger than Marquez in the ring, he was about 4 pounds heavier and an inch or two taller, I think it was Floyd's skill against that particular style that showed just how good Floyd really is.
-Then Floyd faced Mosley who many, many people felt would beat the crap out of Pacquiao, and IMO he still would give Pacquiao one hell of a run for his money, but besides being hurt early I think Floyd showed that he was vastly superior to a guy most people overestimated, at least in comparison to Floyd.
I think Floyd's career has been plagued with his victories being underappreciated, just like his opponents. The time and place Pacquiao beat his opponents never seems to get mentioned while Floyd's are constantly brought up. Pacquiao fought an older Barrera, Morales, and Marquez. He fought Cotto after Margarito, and Hatton after Mayweather. He faced a De La Hoya who wasn't there physically and a Clottey who wasn't there mentally(not just against him though). I still think Manny is amazing, but the stars aligned just right for his career to look the way it has. Floyd would have come out the same amount of fights with Barrera, Morales, and Marquez with no defeats and would be called the greatest 130 pounder ever. I think Pacquiao beats all the same opponents he faced except De La Hoya in their prime, but I think Floyd beats them worse.
People want to talk about Pacquiao starting his career at 16, but that was against crap, Floyd at that age was facing the best amateurs in the states. If Floyd had been allowed and wanted to go pro at 15-16 he would have as many belts in as many weight classes as Manny has.
If he hasn't been egocentric, then the boxing fans would have been more forgiving.
In his entire career you could probably name 2 or 3 people he didn't fight. Like you can say you wish he fought Tszyu and you wish he fought Casamayor but that's mostly it. Cotto wasn't ready for him, and Margarito was top rank hype who now is focusing on pacquiao vs floyd which imo is a better matchup.
Anyway, it comes down to your bias, he was lineal champ at 130, and 135 you could say he wasn't the man at 140 and talk down Gatti, or you could say he was the lineal champ at 147 and beat the number 2 and number 1 guy at that weight within 3 fights and in his next fight took out the lineal champ of 140. And after retirement he took out the number 2 p4p guy but he was too small for him. But in the next fight he fought a very dangerous Mosley, whom people were saying would have massacred Berto, but a few months later say he was off too long to fight Floyd. Anyone can pick apart a fighter's victories or losses every way, It's not that Floyd hasn't fought the best it's that he is easiest to criticize, because he puts himself out. Even if Floyd had fought the above mentioned, something would be said as to why he beat them rather then getting the full credit for the victory. Everyone has a criticism. Look no further than his last fight, people were high on Mosley, saying he was the only guy stylistically that could beat Floyd, saying he would massacre Pacquiao and that Pacquiao ducked him, in other words, the fact is people were big upping Mosley before the Floyd fight, after Floyd beat him, he had too long of a layoff. Floyd is easier to hate, which is why people criticize him, his record is one of the best out there but if you listened to detractors you'd think it was full of bums and that he is overhyped. So it isn't that Floyd hasn't fought the best that people are hating on him, it's the fact he is easier to hate.
I see the '?' so pls let me post these.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Oscar Larios - 2 Division Champion ( 122, 126 ) and fought @ 130 prior to facing Manny at 130. Not as great but a legitimate champion 2 times at that.
Jorge Solis - Has accomplished less compared to Larios but is a Belt holder at the moment currently holding a WBA version at 130.
Pac's Resume is the best among the active fighters IMO.
Sasakul, Ledwabba, Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Larios, Dela Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey
All former or current Champions, ALL Were Dominated except JMM. Add Former title holders Jorge Julio, Jorge Solis and David Diaz for kickers.
Resume wise Pac is way ahead compared to Floyd. But Floyd must be the betting favorite if they fight. IF
haha..milmascaras1 will not agree with you..;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogI'll address some of it for fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
A: It's true Morales wasn't in his prime, but neither was Pac entering it yet. Regardless he took 2 out of 3. And if there was a hypothetical matchup of the 2 in their absolute prime and best, not too many people will say Morales beats Pac prime for prime, especially not with the way Erik likes to exchange.
B: I also thought Pacquiao lost it, for the 2nd fight. The 1st fight I thought he won. Regardless 2 very close fights. And close fights are not considered to be robberies. If you want to talk robberies, see Chavez-Whitaker.
C: De La Hoya got what he deserved for cherry picking a guy that had fought over 130 pounds only once in his career. In fact Oscar should have fought Margarito like he promised, but hey he thought it would be an easy money making fight for him beating up on Pacquiao. About Diaz, it's a fight to test the waters and eventually go on to fightiing the rest of the 135 pounders, but then Oscar offered a fight with him, then Pac went on to better things, it is rare in boxing today for a guy to all of a sudden move up and fight an elite fighter at the new weight class.
D: He started at Jr. flyweight as a 16 year old kid, you're making it sound like he wanted to start his career there to have an unfair advantage in having the physical tools.
E: Ross Greenburg the president of HBO sports did back up Arum and say negotiations took place when Ellerbe came out and said no such thing happened. It hasn't been verify but according to insiders Manny agreed to take the full test.
F: I'm not a fan of catchweight fights also, but it is what it is since Leonard started the bullshit in the 80s and other fighters have done the same thing.
You said you would curse a Mexican fighter out if he demanded a catchweight fight? The greatest Mexican boxer of all time weight drain Pernell Whitaker to 145 pounds for his WBC strap and got outboxed for 10 out of 12 rounds in San Antonio, most unbias boxing fans saw it as a 1 sided victory for Sweetpea. And De La Hoya, an Mexican-American fighter weight drain Hopkins to 156 pounds for his MW titles in 2004. You know you ain't cursing them.
Good video. Looks like steroids really do pay off
LOL. VD's still on some serious drugs. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise