he was fighting in front of 16 thousand canadians for 8 or 10 fights as an elite fighter, can he still do this? what does he need to do to be considered a top smw again?
was he overrated?
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he was fighting in front of 16 thousand canadians for 8 or 10 fights as an elite fighter, can he still do this? what does he need to do to be considered a top smw again?
was he overrated?
He beat decent opposition, but past it opposition and avoided the Super 6. Froch showed that Bute cannot take a shot and that should stay home and fight the likes of Allan Green. I don't think Bute has what it takes and this fight will have destroyed his confidence.
He's nuts if he chooses to waste all our time with a Froch rematch.
Who knows may just be a case of froch having his number because granted bute didn't fight top top level opposition he has beaten some decent names in good fashion, that's what make this result so surprising. Froch just absolutely dominated, honestly don't know where bute goes from here....
Who knows may just be a case of froch having his number because granted bute didn't fight top top level opposition he has beaten some decent names in good fashion, that's what make this result so surprising. Froch just absolutely dominated, honestly don't know where bute goes from here....
Bute vs Magee 2
Or Robert stieglitz in Canada
He's a good fighter but his chin is not World class is it, and if you let the guy get into his slick boxing your
in trouble. I can't see him being in hurry for a rematch with Froch, as he would not want to be Ko in front of his home town fan's. Some fighters come back from a loss but other don't Bute will have to take stock
and think were to go.
I wouldnt be too quick to right off Bute. This wasnt about how good Bute was/is. Froch looked like he would walk through walls last night and there was nothing Bute could do about it.
I hope it wasnt a Jeff lacy type loss (although the comparisons are there) and that Bute can come back. The guys got skills, problem for Bute last night is that Carl Froch didnt care about skills, he was steamrollering Bute, what Bute did or wanted to do in reply was a mute point.
I think fighters that have talent as slick boxers are able to rebound better than more one sided fighters. Bute will need to work on his defense, but it will be a while before he really gets back in with a top contender.
I want Bute to fight the following: Pavlik, Abraham, Dirrell.
Froch should go after Ward again.
Froch want's to forget about Ward, he would get beat again as I feel Ward has his number.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Totally on the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
Froch looked like he meant business tonight. No messing around being faux slick. Bute hit him and Froch responded with fury. He hasn't fought with that intensity for a long time. It was there in spurts against Kessler, a bit at the end of Ward. But this time from the off and ripping apart a champion many people had time for. It was brutal.
Bute's Trainer Discusses The Froch Loss, Rematch, More - Boxing News
I dont think Bute would want anymore of Froch. I was surprised that Bute couldnt handle the pressure, I thought he would have boxed a lot more but he just couldnt get into a flow at all. I was surprised how quick Froch was to start the fight and thats why he won. I wish he could have started like that against Ward and the fight would have been different. I think if Froch can beat Kessler then one day he could have one more go at Ward. We will see though.
I dont know where Bute goes from this, this really would have taken away his confidence. I hope he can bounce back, that would be a tough one though to bounce back from. He got punished.
I agree , Bute just didnt do anything in the fight, i was expecting a lot more from him, but soon as Froch landed flush Bute was in trouble and looking to hold.Froch fought the perfect fightin taking it to Bute from the of and he could not take the pressure put on him. This was a great chance for Bute to move up to REAL world class, but fell way short against the first real danger he has faced in his career. Im not sure how badly this defeat will affect him mentally, because he was totally destroyed in there, maybe a fight with a plodding Abraham would be his next choice of opponent, because i cant see him taking the rematch with Froch, even in Montreal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
He never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
He didnt simply got beat . He was destroyed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
He got his arse kicked on stepping up. Questions all answered.
I no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
Well we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
Bute should take on Pascal.
The point's you have made are correct, Bute having lost in that manner will need to get back on trackQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWell we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
Kessler is a very good very hard punching fighter that straight right hand would get to Bute just like Golovkin got him same out come. Ward would bust him up fair or foul.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe point's you have made are correct, Bute having lost in that manner will need to get back on trackQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWell we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
Kessler is a very good very hard punching fighter that straight right hand would get to Bute just like Golovkin got him same out come. Ward would bust him up fair or foul.
Fair enough but I cant go along with the conclusion. Its in everyone's best interest to throw a straight right against a southpaw but easier said then done and Kessler in his prime could not make that punch count against Calzaghe.
If Bute is now a none factor then Kessler was a none factor after Calzaghe and even more so after the tourney he prematurely exited. Kessler lost his stones long ago. Tell me you do not believe he would ever go to Nottingham. Shit I'd wager he will never leave Denmark.
Ward/Bute is a completely different fight stylistically then what we watched last night. It might even be a snooze fest.
Are you serious about Kessler? The guy has left his backyard before to fight Ward and Calzaghe. Maybe you mean he "lost his stones" as in he won't be up for that now..but he doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe point's you have made are correct, Bute having lost in that manner will need to get back on trackQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWell we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
Kessler is a very good very hard punching fighter that straight right hand would get to Bute just like Golovkin got him same out come. Ward would bust him up fair or foul.
Fair enough but I cant go along with the conclusion. Its in everyone's best interest to throw a straight right against a southpaw but easier said then done and Kessler in his prime could not make that punch count against Calzaghe.
If Bute is now a none factor then Kessler was a none factor after Calzaghe and even more so after the tourney he prematurely exited. Kessler lost his stones long ago. Tell me you do not believe he would ever go to Nottingham. Shit I'd wager he will never leave Denmark.
Ward/Bute is a completely different fight stylistically then what we watched last night. It might even be a snooze fest.
Also the guys who are saying Bute's chin let him down are off...The pressure is what Bute showed he couldn't handle. He took 3 rounds worth of hellacious shots from Froch but didn't know what to do. It was exactly as the British commentator said "You would never see the elite such as Mayweather fold under this kind of pressure" and that is what Bute lacks. He can't keep composed while being attacked. He showed that against Andrade and now it's been confirmed by Carl.
Nothin but respect to froch, but kess was leavin denmark to fight dudes in their backyard before anyone but one dude on this forum were even payin attention to froch, and hell do it again if the offer is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzAre you serious about Kessler? The guy has left his backyard before to fight Ward and Calzaghe. Maybe you mean he "lost his stones" as in he won't be up for that now..but he doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe point's you have made are correct, Bute having lost in that manner will need to get back on trackQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWell we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IhIamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
Kessler is a very good very hard punching fighter that straight right hand would get to Bute just like Golovkin got him same out come. Ward would bust him up fair or foul.
Fair enough but I cant go along with the conclusion. Its in everyone's best interest to throw a straight right against a southpaw but easier said then done and Kessler in his prime could not make that punch count against Calzaghe.
If Bute is now a none factor then Kessler was a none factor after Calzaghe and even more so after the tourney he prematurely exited. Kessler lost his stones long ago. Tell me you do not believe he would ever go to Nottingham. Shit I'd wager he will never leave Denmark.
Ward/Bute is a completely different fight stylistically then what we watched last night. It might even be a snooze fest.
Also the guys who are saying Bute's chin let him down are off...The pressure is what Bute showed he couldn't handle. He took 3 rounds worth of hellacious shots from Froch but didn't know what to do. It was exactly as the British commentator said "You would never see the elite such as Mayweather fold under this kind of pressure" and that is what Bute lacks. He can't keep composed while being attacked. He showed that against Andrade and now it's been confirmed by Carl.
The thing is that Froch is the best opposition that Bute has faced. Bute has not exactly had great opponents over his 30 fights and maybe hes a case of another protected fighter that is really not as good as everyone thinks. I could be wrong but Froch has come off a terrible loss to Ward where he was very outclassed, then he fights Bute in his next fight and hardly loses a round before destroying him in the fifth.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWell we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
It was all to easy a victory for Froch and he made Bute look like a journeyman.
I have to admit I thought Froch was going to lose on points after all the Hype I heard about Bute but it goes to show. Watch the other guys fights and judge for yourself.
I'm talking a post tourney Kessler. He had a chance to fight Bute and accused him of low balling him. And then who did he fight? He was forced to travel because of the tourney so please? Once in the Uk prior to that for Cal.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzAre you serious about Kessler? The guy has left his backyard before to fight Ward and Calzaghe. Maybe you mean he "lost his stones" as in he won't be up for that now..but he doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe point's you have made are correct, Bute having lost in that manner will need to get back on trackQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWell we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
Kessler is a very good very hard punching fighter that straight right hand would get to Bute just like Golovkin got him same out come. Ward would bust him up fair or foul.
Fair enough but I cant go along with the conclusion. Its in everyone's best interest to throw a straight right against a southpaw but easier said then done and Kessler in his prime could not make that punch count against Calzaghe.
If Bute is now a none factor then Kessler was a none factor after Calzaghe and even more so after the tourney he prematurely exited. Kessler lost his stones long ago. Tell me you do not believe he would ever go to Nottingham. Shit I'd wager he will never leave Denmark.
Ward/Bute is a completely different fight stylistically then what we watched last night. It might even be a snooze fest.
Also the guys who are saying Bute's chin let him down are off...The pressure is what Bute showed he couldn't handle. He took 3 rounds worth of hellacious shots from Froch but didn't know what to do. It was exactly as the British commentator said "You would never see the elite such as Mayweather fold under this kind of pressure" and that is what Bute lacks. He can't keep composed while being attacked. He showed that against Andrade and now it's been confirmed by Carl.
Bute met Froch at the entryway and refused to budge. Like I said, a deer in the headlights. I agree on this notion of bad chin. Same people would say Tito and Hearns had a bad chin.
They had no game plan and believed in the odds and hype by fans like me. I picked Bute by wide ud or late stoppage. We just need to show up attitude and beat this guy starched from a tourney and ready to call it quits. No wonder lots of fighters do not watch tape. A different fighter shows up.
Whose this dude and tell me about all these backyard visits? 2 in a tourney and??Quote:
Originally Posted by arminNothin but respect to froch, but kess was leavin denmark to fight dudes in their backyard before anyone but one dude on this forum were even payin attention to froch, and hell do it again if the offer is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzAre you serious about Kessler? The guy has left his backyard before to fight Ward and Calzaghe. Maybe you mean he "lost his stones" as in he won't be up for that now..but he doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe point's you have made are correct, Bute having lost in that manner will need to get back on trackQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWell we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IhIamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
Kessler is a very good very hard punching fighter that straight right hand would get to Bute just like Golovkin got him same out come. Ward would bust him up fair or foul.
Fair enough but I cant go along with the conclusion. Its in everyone's best interest to throw a straight right against a southpaw but easier said then done and Kessler in his prime could not make that punch count against Calzaghe.
If Bute is now a none factor then Kessler was a none factor after Calzaghe and even more so after the tourney he prematurely exited. Kessler lost his stones long ago. Tell me you do not believe he would ever go to Nottingham. Shit I'd wager he will never leave Denmark.
Ward/Bute is a completely different fight stylistically then what we watched last night. It might even be a snooze fest.
Also the guys who are saying Bute's chin let him down are off...The pressure is what Bute showed he couldn't handle. He took 3 rounds worth of hellacious shots from Froch but didn't know what to do. It was exactly as the British commentator said "You would never see the elite such as Mayweather fold under this kind of pressure" and that is what Bute lacks. He can't keep composed while being attacked. He showed that against Andrade and now it's been confirmed by Carl.
He fought in wales, australia, germany, the us....4 more trips than most champs out there, let's not pretend he's scarred to travel when he's clearly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWhose this dude and tell me about all these backyard visits? 2 in a tourney and??Quote:
Originally Posted by arminNothin but respect to froch, but kess was leavin denmark to fight dudes in their backyard before anyone but one dude on this forum were even payin attention to froch, and hell do it again if the offer is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzAre you serious about Kessler? The guy has left his backyard before to fight Ward and Calzaghe. Maybe you mean he "lost his stones" as in he won't be up for that now..but he doesn't strike me as that kind of guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe point's you have made are correct, Bute having lost in that manner will need to get back on trackQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWell we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IhIamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
Kessler is a very good very hard punching fighter that straight right hand would get to Bute just like Golovkin got him same out come. Ward would bust him up fair or foul.
Fair enough but I cant go along with the conclusion. Its in everyone's best interest to throw a straight right against a southpaw but easier said then done and Kessler in his prime could not make that punch count against Calzaghe.
If Bute is now a none factor then Kessler was a none factor after Calzaghe and even more so after the tourney he prematurely exited. Kessler lost his stones long ago. Tell me you do not believe he would ever go to Nottingham. Shit I'd wager he will never leave Denmark.
Ward/Bute is a completely different fight stylistically then what we watched last night. It might even be a snooze fest.
Also the guys who are saying Bute's chin let him down are off...The pressure is what Bute showed he couldn't handle. He took 3 rounds worth of hellacious shots from Froch but didn't know what to do. It was exactly as the British commentator said "You would never see the elite such as Mayweather fold under this kind of pressure" and that is what Bute lacks. He can't keep composed while being attacked. He showed that against Andrade and now it's been confirmed by Carl.
rematch in montreal.
Bute should take on Kessler 1st before a rematch with Froch.
If Kessler kayoes him then take Allan Green to rebuild and try on Abraham.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
I think you're bang on with the last bit, and it won't bode well for Bute in the future. People were billing him as a "slick boxer" in the build up to this fight, which isn't close to the case really. Bute is slick in a large sense, he is very athletic and offensively does great things. His problem is he doesn't really do anything well off the backfoot, only jabs to set up power shots rather than control distance etc. He has quick feet but doesn't move as a pure boxer ever would, everything he does well is from a distance while still coming forward. Froch had no trouble selling out to get inside, where Bute can't really do anything. He basically needs an opponent who will respect his power and let him keep them on a leash so to speak.
no. i disagree completely. when you get knocked down, you get back you and try again.
bute will learn from this and adjust his plan.
that's what champions do. none of this rebuilding with crap fighters.
that's a big part of what's wrong with boxing right now. protecting the fighters, trying to shield them from losses. a loss isn't the end of the world. its something to learn from.
It's not rebuilding if there was no real foundation in place to begin with. This was by far the toughest test Bute had faced, and he was completely destroyed, don't kid yourselves. The idea that he would be well served to just fight another top guy at 168 is crazy, he'll need to be matched up very carefully in his next few fights if he wants to make waves in the near future. There is nothing unfair about writing him off as a legitimate top guy for the meantime, it's not as though he is a young fighter who got caught.. This is a guy who has been milked and brought up carefully for years now, gradually increasing his level of opposition and taking a steady climb to the elite level. There is really no positive to take from this fight at all, he was absolutely hopeless against a guy who could take his punches and get inside on him. In theory he could have given Kessler a decent fight as that would probably be fought at a distance, but Ward would beat him up like he stole something.
your assessment that bute has "no real foundation" and that he should be carefully matched up over the next few fights is moronic.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
there are alot of things to learn from his failure in this fight. running from froch and fighting a bunch of c level fighters isn't the solution. froch is a great fighter. he's shown it in his past fights and he showed it again against bute. bute needs to analyze his performance and make adjustments in training and take froch on again in the fall. thats how you learn. whats fighting a bunch of bums gonna do to help bute learn how to fight the elite? you seem to think he's only fought bums and it got him "no real foundation" so how is that gonna help him get better?
boxing is about taking chances, not coddling and hand holding.
we'll see what happens in the rematch.
Your writing style is moronic, so there:rolleyes:. Is your shift key broken or something? My point was simply that Bute hadn't established that he could compete on this level beforehand, it was a major step up in class and he was absolutely blasted out. Froch is obviously great, but he hasn't taken anyone else out in that fashion recently has he? Bute isn't durable and can't fight on the inside to save his life. If you think this isn't something he should work on, or that he would be able to improve enough in one training camp to beat any of the belt holders at SMW, I want your drugs. If he rematches Froch he will get KO'ed again, and it's certainly not a smart career move. I understand that you want to see top fights all the time, I'm just thinking about what is realistic.
reading comprehension must not be your strong suit...(or maybe it's the lack of capital letters that's confusing you.) i just said that bute has alot to learn from this fight and many adjustments to make.
i'd argue that bute is fairly durable since he took about 30 clean power shots to the head and didn't go down. seemed to recover well between rounds... the problem is that he tried to go toe to toe with froch instead of boxing and using his jab, movement speed and timing.
he clearly can't fight on the inside and should have a completely different strategy for the rematch. everyone expected bute to keep froch on the outside and box. he allowed froch to come in and overpower him. so... fighting guys that aren't as vicious or lack the inside fighting of froch won't really help him get better. he'll just assert his outside game and beat them the way he beat the others.
you have to face failure head on to be the best. back into the fire.
Hahaha. It's true I didn't really read your first post due to the lowercase, my apologies. The thing which had people so confused going into this fight(myself included) is the notion that Bute had the option to box him on the outside. Thinking back, he's never really shown the ability to move any way but forwards whilst being effective with his output. He is more of a well polished offensive fighter than he is actually slick or intelligent in the ring.
I'm not suggesting that he should only fight bums he could look good against, merely pointing out that this is how he built himself up to begin with for the most part. I was surprised that he dealt with Glen Johnson the way he did, but in truth, I think Glencoffee would TKO him if they fought again. That's an opponent for Bute to consider at least. If he jumps right into a rematch with Froch it is carehr suicide, he CAN'T beat himt barring some kind of godlike metmorphosis you seem to feel he is capable of:p.
Bute is fighter at this moment in time has lost,so how does he come back a rematch with Froch orQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoThe point's you have made are correct, Bute having lost in that manner will need to get back on trackQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitWell we differ. I dont do the if A beat B and B beat C then A beats C calculation. Boxing simply does not work that way. Bute was not himself and fought rather stupid and seems to be echoing what I said today in the press. At any rate Froch beating him does not mean Ward or Kessler does. All three fight nothing alike. I wish modern day boxing would turn their collective back on the notion that because someone undefeated has lost they are done. I mean imagine if Benny Leonard quit after he was knocked cold or Arguello getting stopped in about his tenth fight. A loss is not the end of the world as most all time greats will attest to. Sure its tough to take as a fan of his from the moment he started as a pro. To see him lose in that type of fashion but he will be back imo and the better for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoI no he is one of your own,Bute is not finished but it was a very damaging defeat if you are honestQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.
Kessler and Ward would both beat him. As for the rematch forget about it he will just get Ko again
Froch has his number Bute can not handle pressure if you let him get into a rhythm he's hard to beat
but Froch is to much for him the fight was a bit like the old rabbit in the headlights for Bute he froze.
I agree with your take. Bute seemed lost.
Kessler is a very good very hard punching fighter that straight right hand would get to Bute just like Golovkin got him same out come. Ward would bust him up fair or foul.
Fair enough but I cant go along with the conclusion. Its in everyone's best interest to throw a straight right against a southpaw but easier said then done and Kessler in his prime could not make that punch count against Calzaghe.
If Bute is now a none factor then Kessler was a none factor after Calzaghe and even more so after the tourney he prematurely exited. Kessler lost his stones long ago. Tell me you do not believe he would ever go to Nottingham. Shit I'd wager he will never leave Denmark.
Ward/Bute is a completely different fight stylistically then what we watched last night. It might even be a snooze fest.
a easy fight to get back in the grove. I feel he need's the easy fight, it's not so much that he lost but it was in the manner he lost.He took some stick as Froch is regarded as very heavy handed which he showed in the fight.Far play he came to Froch's back yard but he was a very good armature and boxed all over the World himself.Kessler may fancy fighting Froch as he has already beaten him
a very big part how much money the fight can generate.
Both Kessler and Froch, are still at the top of there games but remember the only way is down, to me
this is a 50-50 fight.
Ward is the young guy of the bunch, hard to beat dirty a bit like a young Hopkins about as exciting as pond scum.Does Bute still have a place in the mix you or I don't no time will tell let see how he comes
back from this defeat.
I was a big fan of Bute and I'm absolutely gutted. I give Bute all the credit in the world for traveling to Nottingham to take on Froch, even though it back-fired in the worst possible way. He clearly came to Nottingham brimming with confidence and left literally on a stretcher. I feel horrible for the guy.
I'm not completely writing Bute off, but it's going to be a lot to come back from. If asked whether I see him taking a win at the top level ever, I would answer definitively in the negative. We have to be realistic. Bute showed after Bika, Andrade and Johnson that he could handle decent preassure. This is a chin issue. Froch is a decent puncher, but not a murderous puncher. He hadn't had a knockout in three years. He hit Kessler and Abraham with bigger punches, and they didn't fold. Did Bute ever throw his patented uppercut? How many real punches did he actually land? 3-4? It appeared that once he felt a single punch from Froch, he folded, and his whole fight plan went out the window. In my opinion, Bute takes on Froch at home in the rematch in September, makes a lot of money on Showtime, loses badly again, and then retires. One more night of 7 figures would probably be worth it.
He's made enough money that there is no reason to put his life in danger further. He's given me many great fights and his uppercut is still a classic. I hope he gets out of the game with his facilities intact and money in the bank.
As a fellow Bute fan I cannot agree. Fighters lose both good and great fighters get beat down. Now he lost fair and square and Froch deserves all the credit that he gets but that was not Lucian Bute on Saturday but some photo shopped version that had a lobotomy prior to the ring walk. It certainly was not the Bute I have watched since he turned pro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
He was mentally taken out of the fight by the elements long before the bell rang. He fought stupidly and should have asked for a ten foot ring. He stood right in front of Froch like his feet were nailed to the floor. He needs a sports psychiatrist because sooner or later he was going to have to leave Quebec anyway. This crushing loss could also serve as a catalyst for improvement. The great ones battle through adversity. Armstrong was knocked out in his first fight and then lost two of the next three.
I'll remain optimistic.
How did abraham hav no buisness in the s6, he had the simlar amount of wins as bute as was also unbeaten???Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitHe never avoided the S6 and I wish people would quit saying he did. He was not even asked and was in effect froze out. Instead the powers at be invited Taylor and Abraham who had no business being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The speed in which people are written off today is hilarious. Of course he is still a top 168 pounder. He simply got beat. And rest assured he will demand a rematch. Froch looked great last night and executed his game plan perfectly with a willing opponent allowing him to do so.Bute right off the get go decided to try to out slug the slugger. He was so worried about his feet that he ended up punching off the front of them. Bute will regroup just as any elite after a loss.