Who got hit less?
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Who got hit less?
Roy EASILY he was very dominant and had the power and speed to make his opposition think twice about letting their hands go.
I'd have to say Roy. He didn't have the technical skill of Floyd, but he was always on another planet than his opposition.
By and large I think Floyd fought much better opposition, but I think Roy was more untouchable.
There's no fighter like Roy Jones, he was incredible.
There's no comparison.
Roy Jones is the most talented fighter of all time. To paraphrase the end of "The Babe"...
"He's the best, he's the best there's ever been."
Jones was the more dominate and more dynamic fighter. Mayweather the better fighter. Floyd actually knows how to fight. Jones never bothered learning. He didn't have too. He was that far more talented than everybody else.
Mayweather.
RJJs career at the top lasted about 10 years (based on winning a world title until decline) 1993-2003.
Floyd's started in 1998 and he's still going now, 15 years on. He still gets hit just as little as he did before, in fact in the Guerrero fight they said he got hit less than some of his fights when he was in his 20's.
Roy Jones dominated Hopkins and Toney, enough said
That's crazy.. Floyd started in 98 and let's say u had a baby in the same year. if Floyd dominates till 2018 which is only 5 years from now, then your baby would be a 20 year old man and Floyd still be dominating!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendettos
By then, it would be hard to argue against floyd being the greatest ever
Roys speed and reflexes are hard to beat prime for prime.
But..
Mayweather is the better all round fighter and STILL dominating today which says it all really.
This doesn't get mentioned enough IMO. Two excellent fighters were bamboozled against Roy - although I feel Bernard wasn't as mentally strong as he had later become, or is now. You can see little traits that he has now that come so naturally (even something as small as putting your hands up in defiance as the end of a close round) were a little slow or even feeble. A bit too 'honest' in his approach IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Rice
None the less, Roy did exceptionally well against two (truly) elite fighters.
I think, records and resume's aside - I like Roy's talent better. It's more unearthly ;D
^Agreed. I think people make excuses for those wins. I hear "well it wasn't PRIME Hopkins" and "well Toney had to lose a lot of weight before hand". Hopkins was 5 years in the game, just like Roy, and was a nasty fighter already and was a top middleweight. And James Toney, he ALWAYS had to lose a lot of weight before fights, and NOBODY ever obliterated James Toney like Jones did. Jones pitched a shutout in my books.
People also don't give him enough credit for winning a HW title. Even if Ruiz was no Lennox Lewis, he was still a highly capable (albiet boring) HW.
Roy Jones was one of a kind.
I am surprised and happy to see so many people giving credit to Roy, the way i like to look at this is say pound 4 pound, they fight, Jones wins that battle everytime in my humble opinion, i honestly don't think anyone in middleweight or light heavyweight history can beat a prime roy jones jr. That being said though, legacy wise, Floyd has a bit better resume(not roys fault) and he is more consistent in his old age. But then you have to look at the way roy jumped classes and obliterated guys. So all in all, Roy all the way, and this is coming from a huge Mayweather fan. Sorry for the thinking on text.
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
Floyd is a multi weight champion as well though..he just will never make heavyweight.
For people not to give RJJ credit on winning the WBA title off of John Ruiz would be silly! RJJ not only won that fight but he blue printed John Ruiz and James Toney & David Haye used RJJ's gameplan to beat him. Before that only Tua had worked over Ruiz, everyone else, EVERYONE else had trouble with him and those guys weren't the puncher that Tua was.
Floyd is amazing, but RJJ was just damned ridiculous...playing basketball before a fight, rapping his own intro, hands behind the back KO, I mean RJJ seriously clowned some very capable fighters.
Roy gets too much credit for beating Ruiz. It's more a minority of hardcore fans that understand he beat an average/ranked heavyweight not THE world champion. Was it a very impressive win for a light heavyweight? Yes. Does it mean he achieved some amazing unfathomable feat by beating a guy given a WBA title? No.
Just in recent times, lots of fighters have have moved from lightheavy to beat average/ranked heavyweights.
Overall though I'd pick prime Roy P4P over Floyd even though his record is inferior.
I'm going to go with Roy. There's just a lot of feats included with roys resume that Mayweather wouldn't attempt. (The basketball game before the fight, fighting Hopkins and telesco one handed. Mayweather's only official knockdown came from the pain from breaking his hand in a fight and too his credit he survived for the decision...but you never saw him schooling guys with one hand the way roy did.
There's a difference in the perceived level of competition. The games changed a little between the two fighters even though there was a span of years where they were fighting at the same time. The level of Roy's competition was dictated by mostly by title defenses. He sat on top of a pile of belts and defended against his mandatorys. Floyd, Martinez, broner, Paul Williams has/had the luxury of free wheeling through divisions cherry picking champions for belts without having to wait in line because the super fight money has trumped the honor and rules that used to be prevalent in the fight game. Roy only really started doing that at the end of his career and it was unnecessary. Can you imagine Roy fighting DLH at a catch weight and smoking him out 5 rounds...Or Trinidad... and doing to them what he did to pazienza.
Every generation of boxer has their hype jobs.. but there seem to be a lot more now. You grab a volume puncher and take him to GNC and get him some supplements, give one of his opponent's ex wives or gf's to talk crap for a free trip to vegas and let the fighter's Jaw at each other for a bit and you label it to the casual fan as bad blood.. The fight sells and everyone gets a piece, but no ones looking at the disparity of the talent except the students of the game (us).
Roy and Floyd are 2 special fighters but the environment has changed... so measuring them equally is harder.
I say its a tie if they fought pound for pound i have to say i have no idea who would win. As for Jones winning belt against Ruiz i think its pretty impressive but does get overrated. When people talk pound for pound i say Holyfeild is up there consider he started as a Lhw and became a top atg Hw.
Not to start an argument but didn't Roy get busted for a form of steroids in his fight against Richard Hall? I love Roy and he was an awesome fighter but I feel that taints him somewhat. I think Floyd has been a consistent bad ass since 98 and has been in the ring ratings since then.
I agree. I think the HW win against Ruiz was one of the least of his accomplishments. That said, Roy owned the sport along with every belt known to man for a decade. Father Time beat Roy the worst. He seemed to get old literally overnight. He also carried himself as a champion better imo. Roy was one of a kind, Floyd is just a HOF'er.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Such a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
I love roy but theres no ignoring the steroid issue.
Floyds prime is still going.
Thats dominance
I remember this but he seemingly got a pass as he proved that it was a tainted supplement. If I recall correctly it was TwinLabs Ripped Fuel or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
Quote:
Originally Posted by impSuch a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
I love roy but theres no ignoring the steroid issue.
Floyds prime is still going.
Thats dominance
yeah and it makes you think that maybe he was on roids, losing the olpympics maybe he said hell do whatever it takes, and perhaps its why he aged so fast, when he got off of it, thats a quoestion mark ive always had
It doesn't taint him at all. Taking steroids is considered cheating. It gives one fighter an advantage over the other one. When that happens it's no longer a level playing field. That's wasn't the case here. Hall himself also tested positive. Making it a level playing field. No fighter had an advantage over the other one. So no cheating ever took place.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
I hear you but 2 wrongs don't make a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt doesn't taint him at all. Taking steroids is considered cheating. It gives one fighter an advantage over the other one. When that happens it's no longer a level playing field. That's wasn't the case here. Hall himself also tested positive. Making it a level playing field. No fighter had an advantage over the other one. So no cheating ever took place.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
But they do make amendsQuote:
Originally Posted by jon09I hear you but 2 wrongs don't make a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt doesn't taint him at all. Taking steroids is considered cheating. It gives one fighter an advantage over the other one. When that happens it's no longer a level playing field. That's wasn't the case here. Hall himself also tested positive. Making it a level playing field. No fighter had an advantage over the other one. So no cheating ever took place.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
Agree to disagree. It also makes me wonder that after the Balco case that there were some big names in their file that alot of people did not want released. Was Roy apart of this also? Maybe 1 day we will find out because Sugar slipped through the cracks until he confessed. How many other top boxers did too?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseBut they do make amendsQuote:
Originally Posted by jon09I hear you but 2 wrongs don't make a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt doesn't taint him at all. Taking steroids is considered cheating. It gives one fighter an advantage over the other one. When that happens it's no longer a level playing field. That's wasn't the case here. Hall himself also tested positive. Making it a level playing field. No fighter had an advantage over the other one. So no cheating ever took place.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
Jones was always clean. Ripped Fuel (which is legal) caused his failed test. He never had a problem any other time.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09Agree to disagree. It also makes me wonder that after the Balco case that there were some big names in their file that alot of people did not want released. Was Roy apart of this also? Maybe 1 day we will find out because Sugar slipped through the cracks until he confessed. How many other top boxers did too?.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseBut they do make amendsQuote:
Originally Posted by jon09I hear you but 2 wrongs don't make a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIt doesn't taint him at all. Taking steroids is considered cheating. It gives one fighter an advantage over the other one. When that happens it's no longer a level playing field. That's wasn't the case here. Hall himself also tested positive. Making it a level playing field. No fighter had an advantage over the other one. So no cheating ever took place.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
Firstly I would go with Roy.
Just because Floyd has longer longevity I wouldnt consider him a greater fighter.
I dont see Floyd being able to hurt Roy but I see Roy being able to hurt Floyd badly (Just like he could hurt anyone else).
Sure Roy may have a tough time landing some punches but Floyd would have a tough time landing as well and he would have to worry 100 times over about getting hit.
As far as comparing records, Roy has 56 wins, Floyd has 44. Minus Roys DQ loss he was 49-0 at one time (49-1). And alot of Floyds best wins were against guys out of their prime.
I know I am beating a dead bush when saying this but Oscar gave Floyd all he could handle at like 35 after a year off and clearly out of his prime.
Even JMM was old and Mosley was definately old.
Floyd was 31 when he fought De LA Hoya, even younger when Judah and Castillo gave him a good fight.
No one could touch Roy until he was like 34.
Quote:
Originally Posted by impSuch a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon09
I love roy but theres no ignoring the steroid issue.
Floyds prime is still going.
Thats dominance
Guy has fought six times in six years, and those opponents were cherry picked at that, how is that dominance ????
Floyd has continued to dominate all types of opponents even though he is usually the smaller guy.
We dont even know when floyds prime started and when it will end.
Roy was clearly a superb talent and i was obvious the weight loss after ruiz was going to affect him but that was all muscle loss which made it even worse.
After coming down and beating tarver in the fight of his life the mental side of things for roy had gone and he had nothing left to achieve.
Roy and floyd are two of the greatest boxers of all time and I couldnt choose between the two.
Its easy for me to pick. Before Roy fizzled out he was 50-0 (49-1 because of the BS disqualification loss) with 40 KO's. And only like 10 decision wins all of which weren't even close decisions.
Roy was easily more dominant. No one could even touch Roy before Roy was 34-35.
Roy was the best and complete fighter I have seen.
I agree that Roy was more dominant. However Floyd will never get respect he deserves as a fighter, until his career is over. It's not that he has a big mouth, it's he puts others down. "You have to give respect to get it."
But he did something no other fighter has even done. No fighter who won a world title at 160 ever went to Heavyweight and did the same. Credit where credit is due for me. Ruiz wasn't the best, but he was a legitimate champion and Roy schooled him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
As for who was more dominant, I'd go with Roy. He just sailed past his opposition. Floyd's fights always seem more competative.
"Legitimate champion?" The only reason he had the WBA title is because they stripped Lewis. Take away the WBA title and Roy beat a heavyweight, which is something that numerous middleweights have done throughout history.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfnBut he did something no other fighter has even done. No fighter who won a world title at 160 ever went to Heavyweight and did the same. Credit where credit is due for me. Ruiz wasn't the best, but he was a legitimate champion and Roy schooled him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
As for who was more dominant, I'd go with Roy. He just sailed past his opposition. Floyd's fights always seem more competative.
In the good old days, when there was only one champion, the middleweights trying to dethrone THE heavyweight champ were facing guys like Louis, Marciano etc. There wasn't four "world" champions to pick from. Roy basically beat a fighter he was giving 30lb too. It's common these days. James Toney went from middleweight to beat Ruiz and a bunch of other heavyweights including Holyfield.
(by the way Bob Fitzsimmons was the first to do it ;))
Hm. To answer both questions
Who was more dominant?
Definitely Roy. And it wasnt that he was a better "fighter" than his opposition, rather the fact that he was SO ATHLETIC with quick hands,feet, reflexes etc....that when he fought u he made u look silly. Not to mention he had massive power in his prime(middleweight) imo. He started to lose later in his career because he was so athletic as i young fighter that he didnt need to be technically sound. When the youth wore off, so did his dominance
Who got hit less?
I wanna say floyd because we know that he was so defensively good that opponents couldnt land clean..... But roy dominated so hard in his prime i dont remember him getting caught clean either......... So idk about that
But in the end. Floyd was more successful and fought better opposition. His technical ability allows him to win even at 36 yrs of age... Even though we can all see that his speed,reflexes and footwork have decreaased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlondeBomber
Before Roy fizzled out (Pre Tarver) he was hit way less than Floyd. Of course even when Floyd has been hit they weren't solid shots except for a few good times he was actually rocked pretty good.
But Roy was hardly ever even hit with glancing blows and he was never rocked in hos prime.
If you mean that Roy was the most physically talented fighter of all time, I might could go with you there... his physical skills were amazing. However, it is his disdain for conventional boxing that hurt him later in his career, so I can't necessarily call him the most talented fighter of all time. Talented guys, in my opinion, can fight past their prime and still win when they don't get caught. Roy was NOT Roy in the 3rd Tarver fight... mostly because the very aura of invincibility and his own belief in his own invincibility was gone. Since then, he is not the same fighter. I would actually argue that Mayweather has more smarts and talent inside of the ring, but Roy was much more physically gifted than Floyd is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
I agree regarding the top paragraph - not necessarily the bottom paragraph. In the latter part of his career, Roy gets hit more. However, I think that Roy got hit much less pre-Tarver... but people were scared to throw at him because they would get a receipt with lots of change when they did. Don't I recall correctly that he was the first fighter by CompuBox not to get hit with a punch in a round against Paz?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlondeBomber
Floyd and he didnt even need roids to do it