Was it the Hammer, Butler?
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Was it the Hammer, Butler?
Ike Ibeabuchi, he was a title holder when he got in trouble....he at the very least had fights vs Lewis and Holyfield ahead of him, maybe Tyson as well, who knows.
Johnny Tapia I mean how could he NOT be listed here?
'Kid Dynamite' Danny Romero is another than never reached his potential
Kelly Pavlik, alcohol abuse did a number on him
Meldrick Taylor, super slick boxer but just CHOSE to go to war, really hurt his career.
Any number of drugged out wash-ups especially heavyweights of the late 80's early 90's
Don't forget Tony Ayala Jr. Once proclaimed by Angelo Dundee as the greatest prospect he's ever seen, Tony was a heroin addict and overall scumbag who got thrown in jail for raping a girl, squashing the possibility of a showdown with the great Roberto Duran.
Hector 'Macho' Camacho
Though he had a great career, he was 'self-destructive' for several periods during
his prime.
Thad 'Babe' Spencer
Nobody had more 'natural' talent than Thad in the Heavyweight Division from
1964 thru 1967. 'Nose-Candy' did him in, along with cockiness.
If he only had his head screwed on right, and listened to his good friend Eddie Machen
and Manager - Willie Ketchum, he would have been a World Champion.
You forgot Muhammad Ali. By being a draft-dodging coward he gave up his prime years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
Kevin Mitchell screws up fabulously and spectacularly.
True,Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYou forgot Muhammad Ali. By being a draft-dodging coward he gave up his prime years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
That cowardice that Cassius displayed was 'self-destructive'.
But, the world needs 'Chickens' too.............
Good question.... I would have to say Chad Dawson. He should have never veered left to take on Ward at the lower weight, and he should have stayed away from Stevenson until he hydrated.
He never got back on track since that Ward loss.
As well as haters like you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomTrue,Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYou forgot Muhammad Ali. By being a draft-dodging coward he gave up his prime years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
That cowardice that Cassius displayed was 'self-destructive'.
But, the world needs 'Chickens' too.............
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomTrue,Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYou forgot Muhammad Ali. By being a draft-dodging coward he gave up his prime years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
That cowardice that Cassius displayed was 'self-destructive'.
But, the world needs 'Chickens' too.............
Ask colonel Sanders.
I am hardly a huge All fan. Joe Frazier was always more up my street, but there is nothing chicken like in swimming against the tide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomTrue,Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYou forgot Muhammad Ali. By being a draft-dodging coward he gave up his prime years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
That cowardice that Cassius displayed was 'self-destructive'.
But, the world needs 'Chickens' too.............
I gotta agree with Johnny Tapia.
I loved watching him fight!
That is one good thing about about Bill, he can unite all the Ali non-supporters. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzI am hardly a huge All fan. Joe Frazier was always more up my street, but there is nothing chicken like in swimming against the tide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomTrue,Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYou forgot Muhammad Ali. By being a draft-dodging coward he gave up his prime years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
That cowardice that Cassius displayed was 'self-destructive'.
But, the world needs 'Chickens' too.............
Do you actually think he would have been put on the front lines? :vd: He knew fine well he wouldn't have been... Elvis wasn't, Joe Louis wasn't... He would have been safe and he knew it, going was NO risk, dodging the draft WAS...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomTrue,Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYou forgot Muhammad Ali. By being a draft-dodging coward he gave up his prime years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom
That cowardice that Cassius displayed was 'self-destructive'.
But, the world needs 'Chickens' too.............
He made a statement against a futile, pointless war and threw away years of is career to do so, he had nothing to lose in going, but in doing so would have appeared to condone the war.
Asking you to understand 'integrity' is too big of a stretch it seems.
Mando Ramos, Keeny Teran, Raul Rojas, Ruben Navarro.
Hatton. Who knows? He might have been rubbish without that self destructive streak and giving himself a mountain to climb, every pre fight camp.
Sonny Liston
The most ungrateful fighter 'ever'.
It came back to bite him in the ass hard.........;D
Put down the 'J & B Scotch' Sonny.
'Ever'
You forgot to put 'ass' in apostrophes.
wouldn't you say Edwin Valero ?
Roberto Duran and James Toney deserve mentions for eating their way into weight divisions they had no business fighting in, and putting on the occasional shitty performance from being under trained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
While I hate to see the great Roberto Duran in the same sentence as James "Fat Ass" Toney, there is a lot of truth to that. Duran had no business ballooning up from lightweight all the way to super middle by the end of his career. His explosive power at lightweight became merely mortal at the higher weights.
However, I have to make an important distinction between the two. Toney ballooned up into the open-ended division that is heavyweight, the trash bin of all those pudgy, blubbery, out-of-shape clowns that think that just because they hit hard, they can compete as heavyweight boxers. I'll say this: Duran at super middle still looked somewhat as an athlete. Toney looked like a sumo wrestler with boxing gloves.
John ContehQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
He was a basket-case.
He was talented but liked the champagne lifestyle not mad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomJohn ContehQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
He was a basket-case.
Why would you want a man's mouth on your arse Bill?
Nobody wants to know what you get 'up' to on a 'weekend' ~ Rocky Marciano's roommate's piano tuner 1837
Haha. Your "pet hate".😄Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
Give James his due, he fought and whipped a lot of in shape, scary HWs. Destroyed Holyfield and tore up a 260lb Sam Peter back when he was knocking everyone out, and got robbed on the decision. 25 years, almost 100 fights, middleweight to heavyweight, never stopped, never quit. I think you can mention James' name in the same sentence with anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
Yes, actually I would at that!
Mike Tyson..
Had he remained focussed and on track, he may have been the GOAT.
We'll never know!
How about George Foreman for fighting the stupidest fight possible against Ali?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
He fought stupid most of his fights but very few could take the power.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedHow about George Foreman for fighting the stupidest fight possible against Ali?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Benn did the same thing when he fought Watson.
Hindsight is 20/20. Here you are, a young man, a guy who blasted Ali's conquerers like Frazier and Norton out in 2 rounds, the HW champ of the world, A-level fighters disintegrating under your fists, and now you're fighting a former champ in his 30s, a guy who everyone says is well past his prime, who's had life and death battles with Ken Norton where he's had his jaw completely shattered... knowing all that you'd probably be pretty confident you can blast this old guy out in a few rounds like everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedHow about George Foreman for fighting the stupidest fight possible against Ali?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
The ones that made it to the top then crashed it? Spinks , Tyson come to mind. Almost mayweather Is another playing with it.
Gotta throw Golota's name in the mix. Especially if we're talking inside the ropes.
The quit job against Michael Grant & getting DQ'd twice against Bowe. Ahead on points in all three fights then self-destructed.
Guys like Jose L Lopez, Randall. Douglas. Self sabotage by different methods etc. Oh and Alex Garcia..you should have taken the gamble and massive Foreman payday :-X. Mike Alvarado most recently..anyone who has seen addiction and watched that interview knew he was strung out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ike was railroaded by a lying hooker in Vegas & a suspiciously corrupt justice system
Any man kept heavily sedated for 14 months before going to trial because they were apparently "scared of what he MIGHT do"is going to develop mental problems
Was it boneheaded stupidity, or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerHindsight is 20/20. Here you are, a young man, a guy who blasted Ali's conquerers like Frazier and Norton out in 2 rounds, the HW champ of the world, A-level fighters disintegrating under your fists, and now you're fighting a former champ in his 30s, a guy who everyone says is well past his prime, who's had life and death battles with Ken Norton where he's had his jaw completely shattered... knowing all that you'd probably be pretty confident you can blast this old guy out in a few rounds like everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedHow about George Foreman for fighting the stupidest fight possible against Ali?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ike was railroaded by a lying hooker in Vegas & a suspiciously corrupt justice system
Any man kept heavily sedated for 14 months before going to trial because they were apparently "scared of what he MIGHT do"is going to develop mental problems
Do you think Ike should bear any of the responsibility for what happened?
I guess what I'm saying is that I can't blame him for thinking that he could blast Ali out early like he had with almost everyone else, even though in hindsight obviously it was the wrong choice. But yeah he was definitely boneheaded in letting Ali get under his skin and play him into his hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ike was railroaded by a lying hooker in Vegas & a suspiciously corrupt justice system
Any man kept heavily sedated for 14 months before going to trial because they were apparently "scared of what he MIGHT do"is going to develop mental problems
Yeah? Well I guess the OTHER lying hooker/escort with a similar story was ALSO trying to railroad him. As for his mental stability, how's about the time when Ike abducted the child he had with a former girlfriend and drove head first into a concrete abutment so now the child will never walk normally and suffered numerous injuries. Cedrick Kushner tried wining and dining an HBO Boxing exec with Ike at a fancy restaurant when all of a sudden Ike brandishes a large knife and starts yelling 'They knew it! They knew it! The belts belong to me! Why don't they just give them back?'
Frankie 'The Tiger' Benitez
Wilfred's older brother.
Frankie was faster and punched harder than Wilfred, but was 'not' the technical genius
that his younger brother was.
A lack of dedication to training, and 'drugs' got to him in late-1975, and he ended up
destroying himself.
He had bouts lined up with Roberto Duran and Antonio Cervantes for 1975, and
he blew both of them.