With a summer show down iminent who wins
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With a summer show down iminent who wins
Andy Lee
I think Saunders could do him, why not? It'll be on points because Saunders doesn't have any power, but I think Lee, although he has lots of heart, will get outboxed.
I might be the only one who doesn't think Lee is World level, and I know we're not sure if Saunders is either.
I would have said Saunders but now I am not so sure. Lee is a lot better than I thought.
I think saunders beats Lee relatively comfortably.
Hes a fellow southpaw so the stance wouldnt give Saunders any problems and Saunders I would say would throw and land more than Quillin did.
Lee is ok if he gets the chance to land but hes not fluid enough to catch up with Saunders.
Saunders is better than we thought and im dissapointed with his next scheduled fight. Hes sort of fallen by the wayside when you compare his career with Eubanks since their fight. Eubank has impressed against an undefeated belt holder while saunders sits around scratching his ass on the sidelines.
Lee by brutal knockout!
it was all for the moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
Lee is tough but can be hurt and can punch and he can only come from behind so many times. He was lucky to to walk away with his belt here. Saunders will be too tricky for him.
Just looking at Eubanks next opponents record and he has 7 losses!
I thought that was bad until I saw Saunders, his has 9 losses!!!;D
Why!?:p
Saunders is better than YOU thought ;D I have always rated him. He may not have huge power but he is quick and has enough skill and the ability to throw combinations to put people off their own work. He will throw in bunches and not let Lee set, if he is on top form. Lee can crack a bit though, so I am not writing him off.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Just an easy nights work for both to set up the potential rematch or more than likely the summer showdown in the stadium with Lee for Saunders. Warren said hes got two massive stadium fight bills coming up. More than likely Lee - Saunders and Klitschko - Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Its not even a warm up. Both opponents have been KO'd in the first before. Both have been stopped 6 times!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam SeddonJust an easy nights work for both to set up the potential rematch or more than likely the summer showdown in the stadium with Lee for Saunders. Warren said hes got two massive stadium fight bills coming up. More than likely Lee - Saunders and Klitschko - Fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
OSullivan is still trying to mug people on his twitter that he really wants to fight Eubank. This would have been a much better opponent.
Im hoping Sherrington pulls out as id like to see Eubank with some kind of threat to stay sharp.
He's definitely better than I thought. He's quite defeatist though. He always says he'd never beat Golovkin and I think even he himself gets embarrassed by it because last time. I heard him say it he tried to drag Eubank in with it as well saying golovkin would beat them both on the same night. He's doing himself a disservice because I think golovkin would have problems with both. Certainly more than he did with Murray. It must do Warrens head in listening to Saunders say those things. He doesn't seem to have enough self belief to really be a star.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzSaunders is better than YOU thought ;D I have always rated him. He may not have huge power but he is quick and has enough skill and the ability to throw combinations to put people off their own work. He will throw in bunches and not let Lee set, if he is on top form. Lee can crack a bit though, so I am not writing him off.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
You don't hear any fighter from any other weight talk about how they'd never beat the best in the division. Whats the point of being there?
I would love to see Lee v Saunders and GGG v Eubank .
It's refreshing to hear a young fighter say "Golovkin would kill me and him on the same night." It's called being a realist.
Billy Joe will box Lee's head off but might not be strong enough to win. Good fight.
Judging by Lee-Quillin - Eubank jr would beat both now.
Saunders outboxes lee
It might be refreshing but as a manager or promotor you would be concerned at where your fighters head is at when he says that he cant beat certain fighters. When you are pumping your own money in to promoting that fighter you want him to at least believe in himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
England never do anything at the world cup but would never say they would be beaten and so would Germany in the same night by Brazil and as a supporter you wouldn't want to hear that either.
Maybe thats why frank has put him in with someone who has 9 losses. Maybe Saunders needs the confidence boost.
What Saunders said is the truth and he should be applauded with his honesty. Not criticised for lacking confidence and self belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossIt might be refreshing but as a manager or promotor you would be concerned at where your fighters head is at when he says that he cant beat certain fighters. When you are pumping your own money in to promoting that fighter you want him to at least believe in himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
England never do anything at the world cup but would never say they would be beaten and so would Germany in the same night by Brazil and as a supporter you wouldn't want to hear that either.
Maybe thats why frank has put him in with someone who has 9 losses. Maybe Saunders needs the confidence boost.
To be fair to Saunders , I think the point he was making was to highlight the ridiculousness of the comments made by the the Eubank camp that Jr. (Bearing in mind that at the time he was no more than a novice) "could beat Golovkin tomorrow , and the only boxer on the planet that would beat him in the MW AND SMW divisions was Andre Ward!
If by chance Saunders was due to fight GGG , I don't think he would be saying anything different to what Martin Murray said in his build up. Along the lines of "GGG is a great fighter and I'll be honest I haven't seen many weaknesses , but I think I can win."
Nobody thought Murray was being defeatist, just honest.
Murray wasn't being defeatist. He said he thought he could win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
Saunders says he himself has no chance against Golovkin. Its embarrassing, have some gumption!
It was actually Eubank Sr that said all this and really, who gives a fuck? Id rather hear a fighter say he's going to beat another than listen to whiny, snivelly, wimpy, rubbish.
You have to believe in yourself or no one will get behind you. Who's going to want to watch a fighter who thinks the result is full gone conclusion against him? Would you pay for that?
Would you fuck! We pay to watch a fight!
[QUOTE=ross;1317741]Murray wasn't being defeatist. He said he thought he could win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
that's right, and like I said, if Saunders was fighting GGG, he would say the same. Do you seriously think that Saunders would chicken out of a fight with GGG? Get real.
Saunders says he himself has no chance against Golovkin. Its embarrassing, have some gumption!
it's not embarrassing, I'm not the only person to say that his honesty is refreshing. If he got in the ring with GGG, It wouldn't make any difference what he said.
It was actually Eubank Sr that said all this and really, who gives a fuck? Id rather hear a fighter say he's going to beat another than listen to whiny, snivelly, wimpy, rubbish.
I did say it came from the Eubank camp, I know it was a Eubank fucking Sr. Who said it! However, Jr. Has backed that up as well. As for supposedly whiny , snivelly, wimpy,rubbish, well I'd rather hear that than some novice and his pushy parent say he could beat the best fighter in the division on this planet tomorrow, because that smacks of a disrespectful , delusional,arrogant twat who has achieved absolutely fuck all yet, and it also makes every fighter in between him and GGG in the division think "what a cunt!"
You have to believe in yourself or no one will get behind you. Who's going to want to watch a fighter who thinks the result is full gone conclusion against him? Would you pay for that?
Of course you have to believe in yourself, but more importantly, you have to back it up or risk making yourself look a complete cunt. And let's not forget , the 1st time he stepped up (to nowhere near GGG's level btw.) he fucking lost, and I don't give a flying fuck about whether YOU THINK HE WON , or how close it was, he FUCKING LOST!!!!
Would you fuck! We pay to watch a fight!
Exactly! We pay to watch a fight, we don't pay to see which fighter talks themselves up the most, or has the most belief, we ultimately pay to see what they can do in the ring! And so far, he has not delivered anywhere near what he and HIS CAMP think he can do.
The difference is that his old man talked and still talks shit, but knows it's a game, and then you back it up , and fair play to him, he did. But Jr. Hasn't been told the script, this fucker genuinely believes he is the second coming of Christ!!!!!
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Belt wasnt on the line so not really lucky :D. I think its a close fight. If its in Ireland Ill slightly favour Lee and if in England probably pick em.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I think experience and power is the difference in this fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
[QUOTE=Primo Carnera;1317761]A novice that had never fought beyond 8 rounds that a judge has a win over Saunders ,a Saunders in the best shape he'd ever been in and was still the weaker in the second half.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossMurray wasn't being defeatist. He said he thought he could win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
that's right, and like I said, if Saunders was fighting GGG, he would say the same. Do you seriously think that Saunders would chicken out of a fight with GGG? Get real.
Saunders says he himself has no chance against Golovkin. Its embarrassing, have some gumption!
it's not embarrassing, I'm not the only person to say that his honesty is refreshing. If he got in the ring with GGG, It wouldn't make any difference what he said.
It was actually Eubank Sr that said all this and really, who gives a fuck? Id rather hear a fighter say he's going to beat another than listen to whiny, snivelly, wimpy, rubbish.
I did say it came from the Eubank camp, I know it was a Eubank fucking Sr. Who said it! However, Jr. Has backed that up as well. As for supposedly whiny , snivelly, wimpy,rubbish, well I'd rather hear that than some novice and his pushy parent say he could beat the best fighter in the division on this planet tomorrow, because that smacks of a disrespectful , delusional,arrogant twat who has achieved absolutely fuck all yet, and it also makes every fighter in between him and GGG in the division think "what a cunt!"
You have to believe in yourself or no one will get behind you. Who's going to want to watch a fighter who thinks the result is full gone conclusion against him? Would you pay for that?
Of course you have to believe in yourself, but more importantly, you have to back it up or risk making yourself look a complete cunt. And let's not forget , the 1st time he stepped up (to nowhere near GGG's level btw.) he fucking lost, and I don't give a flying fuck about whether YOU THINK HE WON , or how close it was, he FUCKING LOST!!!!
Would you fuck! We pay to watch a fight!
Exactly! We pay to watch a fight, we don't pay to see which fighter talks themselves up the most, or has the most belief, we ultimately pay to see what they can do in the ring! And so far, he has not delivered anywhere near what he and HIS CAMP think he can do.
The difference is that his old man talked and still talks shit, but knows it's a game, and then you back it up , and fair play to him, he did. But Jr. Hasn't been told the script, this fucker genuinely believes he is the second coming of Christ!!!!!
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Mark these words. Saunders will beat Lee decisively, there will be no question who won unlike the Eubank fight.
Eubank took a daft jump in class and very very nearly pulled it off. His first decent opponent and he gives Saunders thetoughest fight of his career and I guarantee you it will be tougher than Lee will give him. Lee will wait all night to throw a big shot. At least Eubank only waited 5 rounds;)
[QUOTE=ross;1318313]IMO he didn't nearly pull it off, but you are quite right , at least one of the judges thought he did, and that's way more important than what I think. Don't disagree with anything you said.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraA novice that had never fought beyond 8 rounds that a judge has a win over Saunders ,a Saunders in the best shape he'd ever been in and was still the weaker in the second half.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossMurray wasn't being defeatist. He said he thought he could win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
that's right, and like I said, if Saunders was fighting GGG, he would say the same. Do you seriously think that Saunders would chicken out of a fight with GGG? Get real.
Saunders says he himself has no chance against Golovkin. Its embarrassing, have some gumption!
it's not embarrassing, I'm not the only person to say that his honesty is refreshing. If he got in the ring with GGG, It wouldn't make any difference what he said.
It was actually Eubank Sr that said all this and really, who gives a fuck? Id rather hear a fighter say he's going to beat another than listen to whiny, snivelly, wimpy, rubbish.
I did say it came from the Eubank camp, I know it was a Eubank fucking Sr. Who said it! However, Jr. Has backed that up as well. As for supposedly whiny , snivelly, wimpy,rubbish, well I'd rather hear that than some novice and his pushy parent say he could beat the best fighter in the division on this planet tomorrow, because that smacks of a disrespectful , delusional,arrogant twat who has achieved absolutely fuck all yet, and it also makes every fighter in between him and GGG in the division think "what a cunt!"
You have to believe in yourself or no one will get behind you. Who's going to want to watch a fighter who thinks the result is full gone conclusion against him? Would you pay for that?
Of course you have to believe in yourself, but more importantly, you have to back it up or risk making yourself look a complete cunt. And let's not forget , the 1st time he stepped up (to nowhere near GGG's level btw.) he fucking lost, and I don't give a flying fuck about whether YOU THINK HE WON , or how close it was, he FUCKING LOST!!!!
Would you fuck! We pay to watch a fight!
Exactly! We pay to watch a fight, we don't pay to see which fighter talks themselves up the most, or has the most belief, we ultimately pay to see what they can do in the ring! And so far, he has not delivered anywhere near what he and HIS CAMP think he can do.
The difference is that his old man talked and still talks shit, but knows it's a game, and then you back it up , and fair play to him, he did. But Jr. Hasn't been told the script, this fucker genuinely believes he is the second coming of Christ!!!!!
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Mark these words. Saunders will beat Lee decisively, there will be no question who won unlike the Eubank fight.
Eubank took a daft jump in class and very very nearly pulled it off. His first decent opponent and he gives Saunders thetoughest fight of his career and I guarantee you it will be tougher than Lee will give him. Lee will wait all night to throw a big shot. At least Eubank only waited 5 rounds;)
Dont put yourself down and good boxing fans opinion is just as good as a boxing judge. Look at the scandalous scores some judges come out with. Plenty are just unexplainable and are beyond reason.
Agree with what you're saying, We've seen some horror decisions,but I meant that the judges opinion is more important because at the end of the day it's what they think that goes in the history books.not always right or fair, but as Bruce Hornsby once said "that's just the way it is." :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe
Unfortunately judges can be influenced by the crowd. Iv sat next to a judge who awarded the home favourite a fight he didn't deserve because 800 drunk locals were cheering for him. He actually said to me "we cant have him losing if we want to walk out"!
Now imagine a crowd of 20,000 probably half are travellers there to see Saunders beat Eubank.
One traveller right behind me in someone else's seat said if Saunders loses evacuate the building because its getting turned over.
That was one brave judge, going against the crowd and on a Warren show against a Warren fighter. Maybe he was the right one.
Thats completely different. Home fighters just dont lose fights on these small cards. Its all part of the game. They know the ticket seller needs to win so he can sell tickets for the next fight. Always the way with up and comers and always will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Kristian Laight - Boxer
This guy is good enough to have beaten at least 50% of his fights but he knows if he does he wont get a call to fight the next week and wont make his livelihood.
The excuse of Saunders being a home fighter and there was loads of travellers at the fight for Eubank losing is just pathetic. He lost because he got his tactics wrong and started far too slow. Plain and simple.
It should have been a draw at worse for Eubank.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeThats completely different. Home fighters just dont lose fights on these small cards. Its all part of the game. They know the ticket seller needs to win so he can sell tickets for the next fight. Always the way with up and comers and always will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Kristian Laight - Boxer
This guy is good enough to have beaten at least 50% of his fights but he knows if he does he wont get a call to fight the next week and wont make his livelihood.
The excuse of Saunders being a home fighter and there was loads of travellers at the fight for Eubank losing is just pathetic. He lost because he got his tactics wrong and started far too slow. Plain and simple.
For all the criticism of Eubank doing nothing in the first 5 rounds why not criticise Saunders for doing nothing in the last 7?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossIt should have been a draw at worse for Eubank.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeThats completely different. Home fighters just dont lose fights on these small cards. Its all part of the game. They know the ticket seller needs to win so he can sell tickets for the next fight. Always the way with up and comers and always will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Kristian Laight - Boxer
This guy is good enough to have beaten at least 50% of his fights but he knows if he does he wont get a call to fight the next week and wont make his livelihood.
The excuse of Saunders being a home fighter and there was loads of travellers at the fight for Eubank losing is just pathetic. He lost because he got his tactics wrong and started far too slow. Plain and simple.
For all the criticism of Eubank doing nothing in the first 5 rounds why not criticise Saunders for doing nothing in the last 7?
So Saunders v Lee who wins ?
Come on Ross, just when you were beginning to get over it! Saunders won the first 6 rounds, and people saying Eubank started slow are being kind to him. Eubank and his Dad (Ronnie is excused because he wasn't allowed to talk! :rolleyes:) had no answer on how to lay a glove on Saunders, he toyed with him. No clue what to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by rossIt should have been a draw at worse for Eubank.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeThats completely different. Home fighters just dont lose fights on these small cards. Its all part of the game. They know the ticket seller needs to win so he can sell tickets for the next fight. Always the way with up and comers and always will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Kristian Laight - Boxer
This guy is good enough to have beaten at least 50% of his fights but he knows if he does he wont get a call to fight the next week and wont make his livelihood.
The excuse of Saunders being a home fighter and there was loads of travellers at the fight for Eubank losing is just pathetic. He lost because he got his tactics wrong and started far too slow. Plain and simple.
For all the criticism of Eubank doing nothing in the first 5 rounds why not criticise Saunders for doing nothing in the last 7?
In the next 6 rounds, as Saunders tired, (which must be a concern for Saunders,)Saunders won 2, (the 11th and one other if I remember right, I'd have to watch again.) and Eubank to his credit showed good conditioning, stamina and aggression, but he was very very crude and a lot of his wild swings and lunges were missing or having little effect. It's about what lands.
I'm led to believe you're an ex-judge , and I'm sure a very good one, so I'm sure if you watch it again, on your own with no volume, you might see for yourself.
I had Eubanks winning 7-5, but it was close and I have no problem Saunders getting the decision. I think Eubanks knows he made a mistake and want the rectify his mistake but I think Saunders will also be better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Exactly , it may well make him a better fighter.
If I was Saunders I would make him wait and wind him up like Groves has De Gale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Exactly , it may well make him a better fighter.
Saunders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by rossIt should have been a draw at worse for Eubank.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeThats completely different. Home fighters just dont lose fights on these small cards. Its all part of the game. They know the ticket seller needs to win so he can sell tickets for the next fight. Always the way with up and comers and always will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Kristian Laight - Boxer
This guy is good enough to have beaten at least 50% of his fights but he knows if he does he wont get a call to fight the next week and wont make his livelihood.
The excuse of Saunders being a home fighter and there was loads of travellers at the fight for Eubank losing is just pathetic. He lost because he got his tactics wrong and started far too slow. Plain and simple.
For all the criticism of Eubank doing nothing in the first 5 rounds why not criticise Saunders for doing nothing in the last 7?
So Saunders v Lee who wins ?
I Had saunders outpointing eubank by 3rounds. and i have billy doing the same to lee.
1-5 saunders
12 saunders
10 or 11 saunders forget which one.
maybe the 7-8th
eubanks the rest.
so i had saunders by 2 or more. each time i scored it.
landing a few big uppercuts or hooks now and then does not overrule being peppered with the jab. Saunders took eubanks best shots, and never looked truly hurt.
"Peppering" a jab doesnt or shouldnt score points. In amateur at least a scoring punch has to land with force and on the scoring area, not arms and not little flicked out peppery jabs, proper shots that you have invested some effort in and commited to.