I'm stumped.
Walked through a guy that went 12 with Vitali Klitschko.
The power is real people.
Printable View
I'm stumped.
Walked through a guy that went 12 with Vitali Klitschko.
The power is real people.
Let's not pretend this is the guy who went 12 rounds with Vitali.
Johnson has lost 6 of his last 7 fights and is little more than a shot journeyman who only throws jabs.
The stoppage was impressive, but no one should get too carried away. Joshua is still at the stage where he is fighting hand picked stiffs who pose him no threat and that's all Johnson ever was. Joshua was never going to be tested by a guy who doesn't throw any meaningful punches.
We still don't know anything about Joshua that we didn't already know. He's young, in great shape and hits very hard. We've known that from day one.
Joshua does have a nastier streak and killer instinct which is nice , he throws punches technically much better than Wilder , as for his chin well we were saying has Wilder ever been hit on the chin.
Lets just enjoy this in shape HW , and see how far he goes.
AJ gave a good performance, he stopped a very good fighter that new how to go the distance,
the puncher power was there for all to see.
There is no need to push AJ maybe a fight with Price, for a domestic dust up Joshua still has
a lot to learn, give him a chance to develop.
Kevin Johnson wasn't that much better at the time he fought Vitalli. What changed? Did he lose his punch resistance? Johnson has always fought like this, throwing mostly jabs. As far as I am concerned, the only thing that got worse is Kevin Johnson's record. He hasn't taken a lot of punishment, he simply gets out-boxed a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
As I said, the Vitali fight was a few years ago and Johnson's record since then is awful. Now he is nothing more than a journeyman who fights with no ambition at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaspy3Kevin Johnson wasn't that much better at the time he fought Vitalli. What changed? Did he lose his punch resistance? Johnson has always fought like this, throwing mostly jabs. As far as I am concerned, the only thing that got worse is Kevin Johnson's record. He hasn't taken a lot of punishment, he simply gets out-boxed a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
Joshua did well to be the first guy to stop him, but he probably won't be the last if Johnson carries on fighting.
Joshua looks the part and, given that the heavyweight division is absolutely dire right now, unless he has stamina problems he's pretty much guaranteed a world title. I'd like to see him fight Price to see how he reacts to fighting a big guy with genuine power. We know he can knock out bums, but he's clearly better than that and it's time they stepped him up a bit. Knocking over guys like Kevin Johnson is no kind of preparation for fighting elite fighters... not that there are many elite fighters in the heavyweight division.
The power is real but the experience is not there to beat Wlad, Wilder, Stiverne, Fury and Povetkin.
There I named 5.
Thats bullshit. What experience is needed? Hes an olympic gold medalist so has as good an amatuer pedigree as any here. Stiverne, Fury, Wilder and Povetkin havnt got any better pro experience than Joshua.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Furys best wins are Chisora, Johnson and Cunningham. Without doubt Joshua walks through them. If Joshua was to fight against Fury next week Joshua would be at least a 1/4 shot.
Wilders only good oponent is Stiverne, who is another example of a fat lack luster heavyweight. It wouldnt take Joshua 12 rounds to beat Stiverne. Wilder v Joshua is a closer fight because we do not know how Joshua takes a punch so it could be whoever lands first wins but going by technique Joshua is far better.
Povetkin has heart and ability but again hes too small to deal with a guy like Joshua. Like against Wlad he will struggle to land and just get caught coming in.
Wlad is the only real competition for Joshua and I hope the fight happens before Wlad retires. Otherwise it looks like we are going to have to get used to Joshua blowing guys out in the 1st couple of rounds for a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I don't see fury having anything to trouble Joshua , AJ is faster stronger , more powerful.
I would put my money on Joshua to beat fury in his next fight.
I agree and that's why they need to stop messing around fighting bums like Johnson. He's learning nothing from these fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
I don't see fury having anything to trouble Joshua , AJ is faster stronger , more powerful.
I would put my money on Joshua to beat fury in his next fight.
Joshua needs to fight someone who can offer him some kind of test. I don't think Johnson landed a single punch last night and there was absolutely nothing to stop AJ just walking right through him.
If AJ is going to be a champion he needs rounds under his belt and to fight guys who carry a threat and make him think about his defence as well as his offense. Price would be a perfect opponent. Price's chin and stamina are questionable to say the least, but he's a big guy and he carries genuine power.
Good to see some logic and reason in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
I like Anthony Joshua, obviously he's a very exciting prospect, and I do consider banging out Kevin Johnson in 2 rounds impressive given Kingpin's reputation as a durable HW, but like you said he's 35 now and has been getting beaten on for the last several years so you have to wonder how much of that is Johnson just being worn down and at the end of his rope. Definitely not the same guy who was in there with Vitali.
Before I'm sold on Joshua, I want to see him step up. Let's see him in there with a vet like Thompson or one of the younger guys coming off a loss (Stiverne, ect).
I'm trying to not get carried away. I think he's impressive. He has really fast hands for a heavyweight and he seems incredibly patient. He looks excellent but you can't know for sure until he goes in there with someone who will retaliate. I said it when Fury fought him and I'll say it again, Johnson is and always has been a punching bag that has a shield. Other than not being an easy target, he's utterly useless. Joshua did well to get him out of there so quickly, but lets not pretend Kevin Johnson is any good. We're excited about Joshua because we've had a baron spell of quality heavyweights and he's far more advanced than some of his heavyweight peers were at this stage of their careers. But he still needs to be tested, so I'm going to try and reserve judgement until that happens.
That being said, I'm fairly certain he'd flatten Tyson Fury tomorrow.
I agree. But most people were thinking this was going to be one sided but go quite far. Stoppage was impressive. Fury was unable to do it and you would easily argue Johnson was in better shape for this than the Fury fight. Thompson has been shit lately too and have no doubt Joshua stops him early too but agree someone like him or Chisora is probably next for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerGood to see some logic and reason in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
I like Anthony Joshua, obviously he's a very exciting prospect, and I do consider banging out Kevin Johnson in 2 rounds impressive given Kingpin's reputation as a durable HW, but like you said he's 35 now and has been getting beaten on for the last several years so you have to wonder how much of that is Johnson just being worn down and at the end of his rope. Definitely not the same guy who was in there with Vitali.
Before I'm sold on Joshua, I want to see him step up. Let's see him in there with a vet like Thompson or one of the younger guys coming off a loss (Stiverne, ect).
Price is a fighter Id like to see him in with soon because Price can bang and will certainly come to fight. Id still like to see Price v Fury but it seems like Fury is never gonna get into the ring with a boxer puncher until he gets his world title shot and loses.
As Ive said above, apart from Wlad there is not one heavyweight I would make fav over Joshua if they fought next week and I think only an idiot would back against Joshua with 50/50 odds available. People may say Im believing the sky hype machine but just look at him compared to other fighters. Hes just solid muscle, fast hands and really long arms.
Within 3 too id sayQuote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
Out of interest if you were to price up Joshua-Wlad right now what would it be?Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeI agree. But most people were thinking this was going to be one sided but go quite far. Stoppage was impressive. Fury was unable to do it and you would easily argue Johnson was in better shape for this than the Fury fight. Thompson has been shit lately too and have no doubt Joshua stops him early too but agree someone like him or Chisora is probably next for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerGood to see some logic and reason in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
I like Anthony Joshua, obviously he's a very exciting prospect, and I do consider banging out Kevin Johnson in 2 rounds impressive given Kingpin's reputation as a durable HW, but like you said he's 35 now and has been getting beaten on for the last several years so you have to wonder how much of that is Johnson just being worn down and at the end of his rope. Definitely not the same guy who was in there with Vitali.
Before I'm sold on Joshua, I want to see him step up. Let's see him in there with a vet like Thompson or one of the younger guys coming off a loss (Stiverne, ect).
Price is a fighter Id like to see him in with soon because Price can bang and will certainly come to fight. Id still like to see Price v Fury but it seems like Fury is never gonna get into the ring with a boxer puncher until he gets his world title shot and loses.
As Ive said above, apart from Wlad there is not one heavyweight I would make fav over Joshua if they fought next week and I think only an idiot would back against Joshua with 50/50 odds available. People may say Im believing the sky hype machine but just look at him compared to other fighters. Hes just solid muscle, fast hands and really long arms.
You lot are mad.Joshua has not gone over 6 rounds and yet you think he could beat Tyson nowy . Is this an alternative saddo dimension I have posted into?
Very hard to price Wlad v Joshua. I was thinking about 2/5 Wlad, 15/8 Joshua and 50/1 the Draw. If it was his next fight though Id say the odds would go off closer to pickem as would be floods of money on Joshua but you couldnt justify any shorter on Joshua I think.
Fury wouldn't go 2 rounds let alone 6 , but that aside you seem to think fury is far better than he is , one of his ranking wins just got eaten alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Joshua is Inexperienced but he is a far better fighter than most prospects, yes we haven't seen how good his chin is yet but fury isn't a puncher .
AJ is far too ininexnexperiend for fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlFury wouldn't go 2 rounds let alone 6 , but that aside you seem to think fury is far better than he is , one of his ranking wins just got eaten alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Joshua is Inexperienced but he is a far better fighter than most prospects, yes we haven't seen how good his chin is yet but fury isn't a puncher .
Was Inoue to inexperienced for Narvaez? Or Lomachenko too inexperienced for Russell? If you have enough talant it makes up for lack of experience. Beating bums doesnt gain experience as some on this site think. THe only reason they fight these guys is to build a reputation and fan base.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterAJ is far too ininexnexperiend for fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlFury wouldn't go 2 rounds let alone 6 , but that aside you seem to think fury is far better than he is , one of his ranking wins just got eaten alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Joshua is Inexperienced but he is a far better fighter than most prospects, yes we haven't seen how good his chin is yet but fury isn't a puncher .
Bingo , make the fight ,I would put money on Joshua winning with ease.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterAJ is far too ininexnexperiend for fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlFury wouldn't go 2 rounds let alone 6 , but that aside you seem to think fury is far better than he is , one of his ranking wins just got eaten alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Joshua is Inexperienced but he is a far better fighter than most prospects, yes we haven't seen how good his chin is yet but fury isn't a puncher .
Was Inoue to inexperienced for Narvaez? Or Lomachenko too inexperienced for Russell? If you have enough talant it makes up for lack of experience. Beating bums doesnt gain experience as some on this site think. THe only reason they fight these guys is to build a reputation and fan base.
That is my opinion , fury is a well matched fat chump.
To be honest, if AJ and Fury were to fight next month I'd probably make AJ the favourite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Not many people expected the novice Lennox Lewis to beat the vastly experienced and undefeated Gary Mason, but Lewis battered him. In terms of natural ability Lennox was streets ahead of Mason despite his lack of fights and I think the same can be said of Joshua and Fury.
I think Fury would give Joshua a few problems because of the sheer size of him, but I can't see Fury standing up to Joshua's power at all.
HW are a different some take time to mature, AJ is a good prospect time is on his side people gotQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeWas Inoue to inexperienced for Narvaez? Or Lomachenko too inexperienced for Russell? If you have enough talant it makes up for lack of experience. Beating bums doesnt gain experience as some on this site think. THe only reason they fight these guys is to build a reputation and fan base.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterAJ is far too ininexnexperiend for fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlFury wouldn't go 2 rounds let alone 6 , but that aside you seem to think fury is far better than he is , one of his ranking wins just got eaten alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Joshua is Inexperienced but he is a far better fighter than most prospects, yes we haven't seen how good his chin is yet but fury isn't a puncher .
remember he is still a 13 fight novice.
Lennox was world class fighter with 2 Olympics behind him and Mason was never a world class fighter who was coming back from a serious injury so whilst it was a risk at the time, Lennox was favourite.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesqueTo be honest, if AJ and Fury were to fight next month I'd probably make AJ the favourite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Not many people expected the novice Lennox Lewis to beat the vastly experienced and undefeated Gary Mason, but Lewis battered him. In terms of natural ability Lennox was streets ahead of Mason despite his lack of fights and I think the same can be said of Joshua and Fury.
I think Fury would give Joshua a few problems because of the sheer size of him, but I can't see Fury standing up to Joshua's power at all.
Joshua is an Olympic champion and hasn't put a foot wrong so far as a pro. There's no doubt that he's got genuine natural ability and packs on hell of a punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterLennox was world class fighter with 2 Olympics behind him and Mason was never a world class fighter who was coming back from a serious injury so whilst it was a risk at the time, Lennox was favourite.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesqueTo be honest, if AJ and Fury were to fight next month I'd probably make AJ the favourite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Not many people expected the novice Lennox Lewis to beat the vastly experienced and undefeated Gary Mason, but Lewis battered him. In terms of natural ability Lennox was streets ahead of Mason despite his lack of fights and I think the same can be said of Joshua and Fury.
I think Fury would give Joshua a few problems because of the sheer size of him, but I can't see Fury standing up to Joshua's power at all.
Fury isn't really world class. He's very similar to Mason. He's beaten a load of stiffs and built up a record with no genuine quality on it at all. He's also been decked by a couple of very ordinary fighters. If Fury had been around 10 or 15 years ago he wouldn't have got anywhere near a world title fight. The fact that someone as limited as him is even being talked about as a possible world champion is all the proof you'll ever need of how shit the heavyweight division is right now.
As much as I find Fury amusing and good entertainment, he's no world beater and I wouldn't like his chances against Joshua at all.
I like his look and attitude, but 13 fights vs guys you are supposed to beat is just that. I do think he is more complete than a Wilder at respected 13 bout point. Its not even comparable. Likewise the 'power' is obvious. Its just way to early to get caught up with top 5 in world as was shouted last night. He needs some serious seasoning and while collapsing Johnson in that fashion is nice, Johnson has had the temperament and the ring presence of a guy who has already resigned himself going in. When a guy is merely content to last or avoid a fight..in a way he's already been stopped. The fact Vitali went 12 and Joshua got him out doesn't mean to me that Vitali is any less a hitter. Just as Lewis was no less a puncher because Wlad was the "first to ko iron chin Mercer". Styles, circumstance and time. The last thing a young heavy needs is to believe the hype and get caught up in thinking all will fall over once the feel the hammer. I don't pretend to 'know' training and there are 101+ guys on here who do this for a living but I wonder how a mobile straight right would fined Joshua. He looks susceptible as he does that bounce in and bounce out thing. More impressed with his hands than his feet, bit stiff and predictable. His lead foot is near crossed a lot of the time and inside of opponents. He will be fun to watch. Any idea who TBA will be for his next fight?
What I like about Joshua is his level of activity. Seven fights in 2014 and three so far in 2015. Bums? Sure.... but the guy's on a learning curve and needs to develop. As opposed to what.... a Tyson Fury who has 6 fights in the last 3 years? Remember..... I've been on a "several-year soapbox" clamoring for a good challenge to Wlad before he decides to hang up the gloves. People keep talking about Fury's chances vs. Wlad. Well? When are we ever going to find out?? I've little patience for inactivity, regardless of the reason. The clock is ticking on Wlad's career and I'll be bummed out if he leaves without having faced the likes of a Wilder, a Fury, or a Joshua. Povetkin was a promising hope.... and did the best he could.... but Wlad fouled him unmercifully and won an ugly, ugly fight.
Yeah... Joshua hasn't been past 3 rounds and nobody in their right minds can even think about Joshua-Wlad at the moment. I just think it shows our desperation as boxing fans to finally have some worthwhile challenges to Wlad before he retires. Right now, my hopes rest on Wilder.
You're right he should just go the Wilder route. Fight bums until hes 30-0 and criticised by everyone and then hope by then there is a champ as bad as Stiverne so he can avoid fighting Wlad or anyone with a pulse. Then after he wins go back to fighting bums. God I love boxingQuote:
Originally Posted by Dia bandoHW are a different some take time to mature, AJ is a good prospect time is on his side people gotQuote:
Originally Posted by SilkeyjoeWas Inoue to inexperienced for Narvaez? Or Lomachenko too inexperienced for Russell? If you have enough talant it makes up for lack of experience. Beating bums doesnt gain experience as some on this site think. THe only reason they fight these guys is to build a reputation and fan base.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterAJ is far too ininexnexperiend for fury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlFury wouldn't go 2 rounds let alone 6 , but that aside you seem to think fury is far better than he is , one of his ranking wins just got eaten alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Joshua is Inexperienced but he is a far better fighter than most prospects, yes we haven't seen how good his chin is yet but fury isn't a puncher .
remember he is still a 13 fight novice.
Just saw the Johnson fight (thanks @Freedom :) ).
Not to take anything away from Joshua, and I stand by my earlier assessment of his level of activity, which I like.
..... but KJ was little more than a punching bag out there. Totally disappointed in some of these fighters that go up there (Perez-Povetkin, for instance) and basically just beg to get blown out. Little wonder KJ decided to hang it up after the fight. Best thing he can do, really.
No reason to rush this future champion at the moment. But that was a very good performance against a very durable, strong chinned opponent. He still has a lot of questions to be answered. Andy Ruiz, Pulev, Thompson, Jennings and Arreola would be a great batch of guys to test him. Klitschko, Wilder, Fury and Povetkin probably have the best chance to take him out.
Honestly I think he might fair better vs a Wilder than he would a Jennings all things considered though neither should be anywhere near next just yet. Arreola looked far beyond it and hurt easy in his last out.
Heavyweight is a different ball game just ask David price.
I don't doubt that Joshua is the more talented fighter between him and fury but talent will only get you so far when being punched in the face by a heavyweight.
No need to rush. Chisora at best.
I gotta go with your excellent comment. I do think Joshua has all the potential and want him to become Great. But, it's far to early to be expecting or predicting based on so few fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
Plenty of decent tests out there and there will be opponents who make the fight dull and go the distance - all Heavyweights need those fights and will get them. The genuine ones.
I was impressed the way he disposed of Johnson and only a hater wouldn't but you've summed up Kingpins actual ambition and that's spot on.
Joshua is a big powerful beast but he needs rounds, aggressive/tough opponents before messing with the better fighters in the division. Any boxing fan who has a knowledge of the sport, knows how the previous best Heavyweights did it and the same applies to Joshua.
I'm just glad we got an exciting journey to watch.
3 rounds master;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I have to admit im impressed with how how strong he looked over a fitter looking Johnson but im equally unimpressed with Johnson for his lack of effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ross3 rounds master;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I have to admit im impressed with how how strong he looked over a fitter looking Johnson but im equally unimpressed with Johnson for his lack of effort.
Yes being near fury must have made his chin weaker.;)
I think it's time to step him up a level. Joshua needs to fight a guy who genuinely believes he can beat him and it needs to be in a fight that means something.Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDevilRobI gotta go with your excellent comment. I do think Joshua has all the potential and want him to become Great. But, it's far to early to be expecting or predicting based on so few fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
Plenty of decent tests out there and there will be opponents who make the fight dull and go the distance - all Heavyweights need those fights and will get them. The genuine ones.
I was impressed the way he disposed of Johnson and only a hater wouldn't but you've summed up Kingpins actual ambition and that's spot on.
Joshua is a big powerful beast but he needs rounds, aggressive/tough opponents before messing with the better fighters in the division. Any boxing fan who has a knowledge of the sport, knows how the previous best Heavyweights did it and the same applies to Joshua.
I'm just glad we got an exciting journey to watch.
They should be looking to get him a British title fight and then put him in there with Price. I can't see Joshua walking straight through Price and he'll have some respect for his power, so he'll have to put more thought into his work. It's still a very winnable fight for AJ, but he'll get a taste of what it's like to fight a big ambitious guy who carries a threat.
Joshua may well turn out to have a glass jaw , indeed that is possible . Lets judge him on what we see , he is athletic ,powerful , fast and throws combinations really well for a big guy. People may not rate him which is an opinion and is fine , however take Tyson fury as an example , he isn't powerful , proven has a suspect chin , is out of shape , and one of his best wins is against the weak kevin Johnson , who he failed to even get close to stopping.
So lets enjoy Joshua for what he is , a young athlete with lots of potential, maybe not the real deal but exciting to watch and humble with it.
You say Tyson is out of shape. Do you mean he doesnt have a homoerotic sculpted body? He does a decent paced 12 rounds fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
On the Bayloric youtube channel Peter Fury said Tyson visited the gym to spar Johnson in prep for this fight as a favour to Johnson. He was 21 stone apparently and Johnson couldnt last 30 seconds with him so Peter told him to just go home as theres no point being there.
Tyson may not give you a stiffy with his abs and muscular arms but he moves well and fluid and can fight a fast pace over 12. If thats not being in shape what is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossYou say Tyson is out of shape. Do you mean he doesnt have a homoerotic sculpted body? He does a decent paced 12 rounds fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
On the Bayloric youtube channel Peter Fury said Tyson visited the gym to spar Johnson in prep for this fight as a favour to Johnson. He was 21 stone apparently and Johnson couldnt last 30 seconds with him so Peter told him to just go home as theres no point being there.
Tyson may not give you a stiffy with his abs and muscular arms but he moves well and fluid and can fight a fast pace over 12. If thats not being in shape what is?
He has a good engine but he isn't in top physical shape , no athlete carrys that much fat around the waist. He may fight at an even better pace if he lost some of the fat around his waist.
Agreed he may be even better carrying less excess but as you just admitted, its undeniable hes one of the fittest heavies around today. Stiverne and Arreola didnt get any criticism for the blubber they carry and they are in fat worse shape than Tyson, even Pulev and Povetkin carry excess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by rossYou say Tyson is out of shape. Do you mean he doesnt have a homoerotic sculpted body? He does a decent paced 12 rounds fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
On the Bayloric youtube channel Peter Fury said Tyson visited the gym to spar Johnson in prep for this fight as a favour to Johnson. He was 21 stone apparently and Johnson couldnt last 30 seconds with him so Peter told him to just go home as theres no point being there.
Tyson may not give you a stiffy with his abs and muscular arms but he moves well and fluid and can fight a fast pace over 12. If thats not being in shape what is?
He has a good engine but he isn't in top physical shape , no athlete carrys that much fat around the waist. He may fight at an even better pace if he lost some of the fat around his waist.
Im almost certain that if a fighter can get Joshua past 4 rounds he will start to look very ordinary and will visibly tire.