Some cultures are better than others ? True, False, Impossible to answer conclusively

So a grown up discussion on an idea that has gained some traction recently, but will be very familiar to students of philosophy. It is an assertion that deserves to be considered in depth and not just dismissed or agreed upon as a fact without doing so. Maybe you think it is an impossible conundrum with too many factors to ever arrive at an answer.Before we start, personally I don't think we will ever come up with a definitive answer, when consensus on what defines a culture is such a huge , old and contested problem, but it is still useful to consider the assertion and try and see exactly why people think it to be true..or not

There is an option to give more than one answer in case posts in the thread sway you one way or the other. If a thread can never change your opinion then there seems little point discussing anything, but I have learned new things this way before and am not opposed to changing if somebody can present a convincing argument.

Since I have been invited here I will be happy to participate and I have selected 'yes' some cultures ARE in fact better than others.


Mores and folkways vary from region to region even within countries and they help create a culture of a geopolitical area. Through time some mores and folkways disappear, some reappear, some go away forever. These mores and folkways are the unwritten rules and manners which guide our individual and group interactions and it is my belief that some cultures have grown better than other cultures.

For example: https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/846402706331713536


That is a social more, a norm apparently in Algeria which I vehemently disagree with and find sickening.....but hey, maybe I'm being judgey


....and just because this post is in the 'Off Topic' board I went ahead and did NOT mention/link to a video of: widow burning, female genital mutilation, stoning to death for adultery, or throwing alleged gay people off of rooftops. But those are also things I find repugnant....no culture is absolutely perfect but YES A MILLION TIMES YES some cultures are indeed better than others.

Actually you did mention widow burning, female genital mutilation, stoning to death for adultery, or throwing alleged gay people off of rooftops, so there is no need to link to a video of such atrocities, that in itself would surely be unnecessary, and a poor reflection on whichever culture it is you are supposedly part of or representing ?


So am i right in believing that you are using a video clip from a twitter feed to extrapolate a judgment on an entire culture ? Is that everybody within the Algerian border ? Or the society in which they live?


On what are you basing your judgement? Do you take as a given, the fact that your own culture is superior to all others and so you are best placed to judge others? Is there a league of cultures with some at the top and others below and if so where is your culture? Can you even objectively judge your own culture ?

Is your own culture Judeo/Christian or Secular? Does your own countries experiences with France and Algerias have any bearing on your judgment of Algerian culture ? Have you even been there or talked to Algerians or are you basing all of this on one clip and some googling?


Are there no wife beatings in your own culture ? or do they not affect the rating or position of your culture ?

Does the fact that Algeria has passed a law against domestic violence and sexual harassment in 2016 represent a real chance of it moving up the league table and having a chance to compete against your own culture?


Can you judge an entire culture on one element of behavior ?

Are you judging as a culture a country, a religion, a region, a sect, an individual?

Do you consider feminism and women's right as worse than cancer or a case in point to prove one culture as superior to another ?

when you talk about Algeria are you talking about Phonecian culture? Roman Culture? French Culture? or are all of these completely distinct and different from Algerian culture?


Are you actually taking about Algerian culture?

Are those within Algeria who find the same things as you repugnant to be dismissed as not being Algerian because they do not fit into your description?


Can you seriously suggest that cultures themselves are quantifiable and if so who can really stand objectively outside of their own culture and do so ?


Would you consider the hundreds of thousands of Algerians killed by the French as an acceptable price to pay in order to better their culture?

Is that price still worth paying if they refuse to convert?


Are the freedoms of your own culture worth so much that they should be imposed on any other culture whatever the cost and even if they do not want them?

Morality itself is culturally defined so if you believe that some cultures are better than others what is the arbiter that proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that your own culture's morality is the perfect absolute by which all others should be judged ?

Yes of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1LzXf1TKQ

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Actually you did mention widow burning, female genital mutilation, stoning to death for adultery, or throwing alleged gay people off of rooftops, so there is no need to link to a video of such atrocities, that in itself would surely be unnecessary, and a poor reflection on whichever culture it is you are supposedly part of or representing ?

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Yes I MENTIONED them which is quite a bit different than SHOWING THEM TO YOU...some people are visual learners, some people don't believe that those things actually occur. Some people are extremely hard headed and won't fucking believe me if I just MENTION them. Those are examples from cultures around the world, widow burning/Sati happens in Hindu populations (the Gangetic Valley, Punjab and Rajasthan; in the west, to the southern Konkan region; and in the south, to Madurai and Vijayanagar), FGM happens in many nations in Africa, stoning happens in the Middle East still to this very day, throwing gays from the rooftops happens in the Middle East to this day and in Saudi Arabia sometimes gays are just beheaded with a sword....and HOPEFULLY most people look on those acts with contempt.

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So am i right in believing that you are using a video clip from a twitter feed to extrapolate a judgment on an entire culture ? Is that everybody within the Algerian border ? Or the society in which they live?

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The Twitter feed is Al Jazeera's AJ+ channel, they are a Qatar based media outlet and is therefore much more friendly to Islamic practicing nations/people. Spousal abuse is QUESTIONED by them, it's not spoken ill of, the practice is just QUESTIONED....over here in the United States if you beat your wife she can (and fucking should) have you arrested. That is not only a social norm, that's an actual LAW here and my friend that is a gigantic difference. If you hit an animal in the United States you can go to jail! Big difference in cultures man, HUGE in terms of how much violence is socially acceptable.

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On what are you basing your judgement? Do you take as a given, the fact that your own culture is superior to all others and so you are best placed to judge others? Is there a league of cultures with some at the top and others below and if so where is your culture? Can you even objectively judge your own culture ?

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Well I guess MY own personal criteria of judgement would be some variation of Humanism but one that is open to and respects the religious rights of others. Like I understand certain cultures have "rights of passage" for boys growing to men, girls growing to women, and as long as those rituals are not creating sociopaths or forcing a culture on unwilling participants I'm fine with them. I don't judge my culture as the absolute greatest, I certainly view it as more humane than others though. I can certainly objectively judge American culture, there are some points which I think aren't too good, you can look at the way American veterans are treated (or not) by hospitals, gang violence, drug problems, past issues of slavery/segregation, Urban Renewal/creating dependence on the government, abortion, there's certainly no lack of moral issues in the United States or in the West but a lot of those issues can be put under the hashtag of #firstworldproblems. I've said before and I stand by it NO CULTURE IS PERFECT...but some ARE better than others.

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Is your own culture Judeo/Christian or Secular? Does your own countries experiences with France and Algerias have any bearing on your judgment of Algerian culture ? Have you even been there or talked to Algerians or are you basing all of this on one clip and some googling?

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I consider myself Christian but I do not force my belief in deity on anyone that is between them and God and it is my belief that everyone must find their own path to enlightenment. France helped the United States in our Revolutionary War and we are good allies, Algeria on the other hand held our sailors for ransom and enslaved them in the 18th century but we eventually reached a truce and eventually became friendly. This was difficult during the Colonial Period when Algeria fought France for Independence as we were caught between the two. Algeria then started to not like us because of the Arab-Israeli War because we sided with Israel....it's a long complicated thing which has damn near nothing to do with spousal abuse.

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Are there no wife beatings in your own culture ? or do they not affect the rating or position of your culture ?

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Wife beating is frowned upon in the United States...and it's illegal. Did it USED to be a problem, yeah sure, and to a far lesser extent sure there is still SOME spousal abuse happening now, but I'd like to believe that with the options available to women it's a lot less likely you'll be walloped by your husband in the US than in Tunisia where women apparently still accept it with a smile on their face.....did you not find that the slightest bit odd???

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Does the fact that Algeria has passed a law against domestic violence and sexual harassment in 2016 represent a real chance of it moving up the league table and having a chance to compete against your own culture?

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I'd hope that all cultures are TRYING to improve and yeah it would be a step in the right direction.

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Can you judge an entire culture on one element of behavior ?

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No, but you certainly can pick out the problem areas.

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Are you judging as a culture a country, a religion, a region, a sect, an individual?

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Culture - Culture consists of the beliefs, behaviors, objects, and other characteristics common to the members of a particular group or society. Through culture, people and groups define themselves, conform to society's shared values, and contribute to society. If that helps, that is what I'm looking at.

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Do you consider feminism and women's right as worse than cancer or a case in point to prove one culture as superior to another ?

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I think Feminism and Women's Rights have been co-opted by Cultural Marxists who wish to impose a different set of norms and values on American society. I believe the whole "Feminism is cancer" battle cry is an ironic bit of hyperbole (it's ironic because they tend to be hyperbolic and so when it's used against them boom irony).

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when you talk about Algeria are you talking about Phonecian culture? Roman Culture? French Culture? or are all of these completely distinct and different from Algerian culture?
Are you actually taking about Algerian culture?

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That clip....Islam....I'm talking about Islamic culture it's in the Quran "Men have authority over women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand" An-Nisa 34

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Are those within Algeria who find the same things as you repugnant to be dismissed as not being Algerian because they do not fit into your description?

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Cultures are not 100% geopolitical my friend...you should know what with being in England and all...Irish, Scottish, Welsh, hell even your north and south are a bit different.

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Can you seriously suggest that cultures themselves are quantifiable and if so who can really stand objectively outside of their own culture and do so ?

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Alright, explain to me when it would acceptable to beat your wife. If you can, then bravo to you for proving me wrong.

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Would you consider the hundreds of thousands of Algerians killed by the French as an acceptable price to pay in order to better their culture?

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Only the Algerians died then?

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Is that price still worth paying if they refuse to convert?

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....so ONLY the Algerians died

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Are the freedoms of your own culture worth so much that they should be imposed on any other culture whatever the cost and even if they do not want them?

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Nope, never said that, you have it quite the wrong way around. Why should THAT culture be accepted in America? Do we need to go back to the days of good old wife beating ?

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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I'm glad you now reside in England Randy and drive on the sane side of the road.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Yes of course.

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No need for an essay mate you could be a little more succinct :p

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Yes of course.

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No need for an essay mate you could be a little more succinct :p

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I said it out loud and punched the air so I need say no more :)

Beanz in all the excitement in my answer to your question , my Monicle fell into my brandy dam !!!!.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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I'm glad you now reside in England Randy and drive on the sane side of the road.

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Savages! The lot of ya ;D. England when be a trip. I may get there before my cards pulled but the roads would be a complete mess. I've seen your "traditional" breakfast though, so I'm in!

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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I'm glad you now reside in England Randy and drive on the sane side of the road.

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Savages! The lot of ya ;D. England when be a trip. I may get there before my cards pulled but the roads would be a complete mess. I've seen your "traditional" breakfast though, so I'm in!

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Yes the good old English Breakfast is good , however I must warn you , you do not get a whole hog and seven dozen eggs as with an American Breakfast.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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So there's cultural relevance and overall goodness that can come from wife beating? Do tell!

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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So there's cultural relevance and overall goodness that can come from wife beating? Do tell!

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Thought we went over this once before? No Lyle, you go immediately to an entire religion or Country (?) while in that instance I'm addressing personal experience. We are all so overly self righteous in our "never in my backyard" but I've heard and seen subtleties turning a blind eye or near condoning spousal abuse. Though it is not 'bred' in or taught, at least not directly, and those that do are shits. Simple as. I've seen wives and women beaten up close. Then I've seen said beater have his head pulled through his own arsehole and left in a heap :). I'd encourage anyone witnessing such things to do the very same.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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I'm glad you now reside in England Randy and drive on the sane side of the road.

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Savages! The lot of ya ;D. England when be a trip. I may get there before my cards pulled but the roads would be a complete mess. I've seen your "traditional" breakfast though, so I'm in!

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Yes the good old English Breakfast is good , however I must warn you , you do not get a whole hog and seven dozen eggs as with an American Breakfast.

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3 over easy eggs on hash browns and bacon and we're good to go. Save the beans though. Beans for breakfast would not sit well for others :-X

Impossible, I would think.

Any human being, while viewing or analysing another culture, does so through the prism of their own culture and viewpoints.

'Bettermeans totally different things to a Russian, a Chinese person, a Qatari, or to a Scotsman, so any proper calibration is logically impossible in my humble opinion.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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So there's cultural relevance and overall goodness that can come from wife beating? Do tell!

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Thought we went over this once before? No Lyle, you go immediately to an entire religion or Country (?) while in that instance I'm addressing personal experience. We are all so overly self righteous in our "never in my backyard" but I've heard and seen subtleties turning a blind eye or near condoning spousal abuse. Though it is not 'bred' in or taught, at least not directly, and those that do are shits. Simple as. I've seen wives and women beaten up close. Then I've seen said beater have his head pulled through his own arsehole and left in a heap :). I'd encourage anyone witnessing such things to do the very same.

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Challenge accepted.


Defend the Aghori. You know, the folks who made Reza Aslan eat human brains. They cover themselves in cremated remains, and frequently dine on urine and excrement.

The floor is yours, Spicoli, find the silver lining for us and enlighten me to the wisdom of the Aghori.

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Originally Posted by el kabong

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Originally Posted by spicoli

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Originally Posted by el kabong

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Originally Posted by spicoli

i always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or state wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people and i drive on the sane side of the road so i by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;d.

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so there's cultural relevance and overall goodness that can come from wife beating? Do tell!

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thought we went over this once before? No lyle, you go immediately to an entire religion or country (?) while in that instance i'm addressing personal experience. We are all so overly self righteous in our "never in my backyard" but i've heard and seen subtleties turning a blind eye or near condoning spousal abuse. Though it is not 'bred' in or taught, at least not directly, and those that do are shits. Simple as. I've seen wives and women beaten up close. Then i've seen said beater have his head pulled through his own arsehole and left in a heap :). I'd encourage anyone witnessing such things to do the very same.

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challenge accepted.


Defend the aghori. You know, the folks who made reza aslan eat human brains. They cover themselves in cremated remains, and frequently dine on urine and excrement.

The floor is yours, spicoli, find the silver lining for us and enlighten me to the wisdom of the aghori.

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**************whoops i disliked that post by accident************

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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So there's cultural relevance and overall goodness that can come from wife beating? Do tell!

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Thought we went over this once before? No Lyle, you go immediately to an entire religion or Country (?) while in that instance I'm addressing personal experience. We are all so overly self righteous in our "never in my backyard" but I've heard and seen subtleties turning a blind eye or near condoning spousal abuse. Though it is not 'bred' in or taught, at least not directly, and those that do are shits. Simple as. I've seen wives and women beaten up close. Then I've seen said beater have his head pulled through his own arsehole and left in a heap :). I'd encourage anyone witnessing such things to do the very same.

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Challenge accepted.


Defend the Aghori. You know, the folks who made Reza Aslan eat human brains. They cover themselves in cremated remains, and frequently dine on urine and excrement.

The floor is yours, Spicoli, find the silver lining for us and enlighten me to the wisdom of the Aghori.

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The onus is on you though Lyle. It is your statement (or that of Paul Joseph Watson or some other alt right buffoon from Infowars or Breitbart that you are simply repeating parrot fashion). You have to prove why your statement is true.
Morality itself is culturally defined so if you believe that some cultures are better than others what is the arbiter that proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that your own culture's morality is the perfect absolute by which all others should be
judged ?

You have not even defined what your culture is.

Those are childish questions ask by pseudo-intellectuals with an agenda

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Originally Posted by Beanz

The onus is on you though Lyle. It is your statement (or that of Paul Joseph Watson or some other alt right buffoon from Infowars or Breitbart that you are simply repeating parrot fashion). You have to prove why your statement is true.
Morality itself is culturally defined so if you believe that some cultures are better than others what is the arbiter that proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that your own culture's morality is the perfect absolute by which all others should be
judged ?

You have not even defined what your culture is.

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:rolleyes:


Let's see here....my culture and how I should define it :scratchchin: we celebrate life, we mourn death, we celebrate knowledge (book smarts & common sense), males in my culture are SUPPOSED to honor/respect/care for: females, the elderly, and children. Chivalry is seen as a positive, friends and family are celebrated in various ways, marriage is typically between 1 adult age male and 1 adult age female but same sex marriages have recently become less taboo, divorce is seen as a negative but there are justifications for it (cheating, abuse, etc) and there's no giant stigma placed on the divorcees, sharing a home or meals with friends and family is seen as a positive, it's a positive to be a good host/hostess as well as a gracious guest. We respect and honor The Constitution and the limits that places on government, punctuality is a good thing. The INDIVIDUAL is valued over the collective however it is typical for an individual (in my area) to CHOOSE to honor and respect their families, if you are insulted it is expected that you address that situation but this has morphed from DUELS with pistols to less violent and fatal forms of conflict such as vocal arguments and perhaps in some situations fisticuffs. We believe in expressing emotion within reason and we believe in the rule of law.


How long would you care for me to go on? There's a lot of this to digest, and I'm quite certain that you know full well what my culture is give or take some areas. You understand perhaps our social mores but perhaps not our folkways which wouldn't seem foreign to you. Now I personally am of the belief that when travelling you respect and honor the culture in which you find yourself and fuck, I even attempt to do that when visiting certain restaurants, for ONE example when getting Japanese food (not just sushi of course) and sake I pour for others but never myself. Sure that's a little thing, but that little thing creates an experience and one can learn from this. I never said you cannot learn or take things from other cultures....the things I don't wish to take from other cultures would be things like: cutting off the hands of thieves...sure I don't like to be stolen from but that's a little excessive no? Stoning to death of adulterers....again, a bit excessive. Calling for the death of those who do not follow your religion...again, excessive. Forcing the conversion to a religion....I'm of the belief that individuals are supposed to find their own path to God should they choose to do so.


So let's see here, I'm of Scots-Irish heritage, I consider myself I guess the best definition would be a nondenominational Christian, a mix of Classical Liberal/Libertarian politically with a dash of Nationalism, and I'm a Southerner so of course I mind my manners and expect others to do the same.


Please please, pretty please with a cherry on top now tell me why I should drink urine and eat feces as the Aghori do OR why I should NOT allow my wife outside the house without my permission or an escort who is a relative.....tell me Beanz, why should I do that? what benefit to society will that have? Why should I beat my wife if she disobeys me? Hmmm??? Why should I toss gays off of rooftops Beanz???? Because people who keep pushing this multicultural bullshit don't fucking think about what "multiculturalism" actually means.....in Mexico the age of sexual consent is 12...I DISAGREE with that do you not? The Prophet Muhammad had a WIFE who was 6 years old Beanz....6....as in 1,2,3,4,5, FUCKING 6....is that a good thing? Is THAT positive? The Prophet Muhammad had SEVERAL wives....is THAT good? is THAT positive? In China they (the government) had the 1 child policy and allowed for sex selective abortions....is THAT good? Is THAT positive? China also had footbinding for women...tell me how brilliant of an idea that is!


"Well YOU'RE no better El Kabong....you can't PROVE that your culture is better!"


....well I can fucking try, and I believe I've pointed out some practices which ain't the best, but hey, YOU judge my judging

I can think of a few things that I would like the British culture to adopt from others.

- The respect for elders and old relatives that I've seen in the Indian culture. Lots of people over here don't look after their old relatives and dump them into old people's homes. I've also seen many people be rude and commit crimes against the elderly.

- The Buddhist respect for all living things. We in the west have caused multiple extinctions, kill things for fun and people for little provocation. We intruduce or breed species to combat other ones without understanding the ramifications of those actions.

- The Islamic devotion to charity, which is prescribed within their religion and followed by nearly every Muslim I've met. I do think the British give a hell of a lot to charities, but many other nations and cultures do not.

- The gratefulness for small pleasures and things that Africans show. We in the UK do seem to over value our material possessions. We covet the possessions of others and - sometimes - are jealous rather than envious. Look up the difference. Sometimes people wish that the other person did not have something, rather than wishing they both had it.

- The ability of North Americans to be cheerful. I've found they have a bit of a 'live and let live' mentality, whereas we Brits do like to tell other people what to do, and we moralise too much to others. We are rather cynical about things, politics being a good example. People seem not to like the new American President, but al least the Americans are more engaged in their politics than we are.

I'm sure there are many other examples that I don't know of, and I think the British culture is the best I have seen (that's why I choose to live here), so I'm not slagging off the Brits either ;). ..... but we are all sometimes quick to point out and attack the flaws of others without being self aware enough to take a long look at ourselves.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Beanz

The onus is on you though Lyle. It is your statement (or that of Paul Joseph Watson or some other alt right buffoon from Infowars or Breitbart that you are simply repeating parrot fashion). You have to prove why your statement is true.
Morality itself is culturally defined so if you believe that some cultures are better than others what is the arbiter that proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that your own culture's morality is the perfect absolute by which all others should be
judged ?

You have not even defined what your culture is.

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:rolleyes:


Let's see here....my culture and how I should define it :scratchchin: we celebrate life, we mourn death, we celebrate knowledge (book smarts & common sense), males in my culture are SUPPOSED to honor/respect/care for: females, the elderly, and children. Chivalry is seen as a positive, friends and family are celebrated in various ways, marriage is typically between 1 adult age male and 1 adult age female but same sex marriages have recently become less taboo, divorce is seen as a negative but there are justifications for it (cheating, abuse, etc) and there's no giant stigma placed on the divorcees, sharing a home or meals with friends and family is seen as a positive, it's a positive to be a good host/hostess as well as a gracious guest. We respect and honor The Constitution and the limits that places on government, punctuality is a good thing. The INDIVIDUAL is valued over the collective however it is typical for an individual (in my area) to CHOOSE to honor and respect their families, if you are insulted it is expected that you address that situation but this has morphed from DUELS with pistols to less violent and fatal forms of conflict such as vocal arguments and perhaps in some situations fisticuffs. We believe in expressing emotion within reason and we believe in the rule of law.


How long would you care for me to go on? There's a lot of this to digest, and I'm quite certain that you know full well what my culture is give or take some areas. You understand perhaps our social mores but perhaps not our folkways which wouldn't seem foreign to you. Now I personally am of the belief that when travelling you respect and honor the culture in which you find yourself and fuck, I even attempt to do that when visiting certain restaurants, for ONE example when getting Japanese food (not just sushi of course) and sake I pour for others but never myself. Sure that's a little thing, but that little thing creates an experience and one can learn from this. I never said you cannot learn or take things from other cultures....the things I don't wish to take from other cultures would be things like: cutting off the hands of thieves...sure I don't like to be stolen from but that's a little excessive no? Stoning to death of adulterers....again, a bit excessive. Calling for the death of those who do not follow your religion...again, excessive. Forcing the conversion to a religion....I'm of the belief that individuals are supposed to find their own path to God should they choose to do so.


So let's see here, I'm of Scots-Irish heritage, I consider myself I guess the best definition would be a nondenominational Christian, a mix of Classical Liberal/Libertarian politically with a dash of Nationalism, and I'm a Southerner so of course I mind my manners and expect others to do the same.


Please please, pretty please with a cherry on top now tell me why I should drink urine and eat feces as the Aghori do OR why I should NOT allow my wife outside the house without my permission or an escort who is a relative.....tell me Beanz, why should I do that? what benefit to society will that have? Why should I beat my wife if she disobeys me? Hmmm??? Why should I toss gays off of rooftops Beanz???? Because people who keep pushing this multicultural bullshit don't fucking think about what "multiculturalism" actually means.....in Mexico the age of sexual consent is 12...I DISAGREE with that do you not? The Prophet Muhammad had a WIFE who was 6 years old Beanz....6....as in 1,2,3,4,5, FUCKING 6....is that a good thing? Is THAT positive? The Prophet Muhammad had SEVERAL wives....is THAT good? is THAT positive? In China they (the government) had the 1 child policy and allowed for sex selective abortions....is THAT good? Is THAT positive? China also had footbinding for women...tell me how brilliant of an idea that is!


"Well YOU'RE no better El Kabong....you can't PROVE that your culture is better!"


....well I can fucking try, and I believe I've pointed out some practices which ain't the best, but hey, YOU judge my judging

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Thank you Lyle. It is refreshing to read you express yourself so eloquently. It is interesting that you start by outlining what Males are SUPPOSED to do in your culture. I would be interested to hear why you think they are supposed to act in that way ? What is the moral directive that they are following? is it religious? geopolitical? traditional? and who are the Males who you feel are from an inferior culture are taking their directive from? something deep within their culture or the more recent opinions of people trying to hijack it?

If you truly believe that your culture is only superior to others in some ways, and that there are things that any culture can learn from another, then surely you are admitting that no culture is the best, and so there really is no such thing as one culture being better than another?

I think people often mix up cultural and moral relativism so their is no problem philosophically with holding quite different opinions and reaching quite different conclusions in both.

You have also expressed the fact that your own culture is not a mono culture. That Scottish and Irish Heritage,Nondenominational Christianity, Libitariansim, being from the South etc, all factor into making you, who you are. Do you think you are unique in this and that all these elements agree on whose is the superior culture ?

Or are you in fact arguing for multiculturalism as the perfect ideal from which to judge other more mono cultures ? :-X

Who are the people pushing what you refer to as "this multi cultural bullshit" a gentically fecal storm from which all of us arrived, unless of course you are the pure product of incest which thankfully is rare nowadays even in Cornwall and the American South.

If you push all the semantics to one side are you really suggesting that Christianity is better than Islam or that America is better than Europe or that the best of your country is better than the worst of another?


You can't extrapolate abhorrent practices from history and/or various different cultures and then suggest that as proof that your particular current culture is somehow superior? You can't also be expected to be taken seriously when you can't even show a modicum of respect or common sense to me despite manners supposedly being a cornerstone of your own culture ?


Where have i given you any indication that I would think anything on your list is a positive thing?

So I am taking it that you are not an advocate for a kind of cherry picking multiculturalism in which the Judeo heritage of Christianity, the justice system, and democracy itself, is passed off as being a white thing in which a pale Jesus gave special dispensation to Americans to spread the gospel of Greek Democracy by dropping bombs on brown people?

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It is interesting that you start by outlining what Males are SUPPOSED to do in your culture. I would be interested to hear why you think they are supposed to act in that way ? What is the moral directive that they are following? is it religious? geopolitical? traditional? and who are the Males who you feel are from an inferior culture are taking their directive from? something deep within their culture or the more recent opinions of people trying to hijack it?

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Well, since I am a male I figured that it be best for me and those following that I speak on not only what I feel to be true, but also what I have experienced to be true.

Why act that way? Respect, chivalry, etc those come from men choosing of their own free will to use their greater physical strengths for GOOD rather than evil. That follow? Goodness, kindness, those are CHOICES and while we here in the US celebrate individuality/the individual we likewise celebrate it when individuals choose to behave in positive ways. it's traditional, religious, and geopolitical, all of the above.

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If you truly believe that your culture is only superior to others in some ways, and that there are things that any culture can learn from another, then surely you are admitting that no culture is the best, and so there really is no such thing as one culture being better than another

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Those ideas are not mutually exclusive. Take football for example, the team with the best player doesn't always win...you can have a team win and look at the losing team and be like "Gee I wish we had that player(from the losing team) on our team"

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You have also expressed the fact that your own culture is not a mono culture. That Scottish and Irish Heritage,Nondenominational Christianity, Libitariansim, being from the South etc, all factor into making you, who you are. Do you think you are unique in this and that all these elements agree on whose is the superior culture ?

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Every individual is unique in ways but every individual is similar in ways. I feel as though superior cultures err on the side of liberty for the individual while at the same time striving to achieve what is morally correct. Morals get tested in different situations...is it ok to steal? vs is it ok to steal to feed your family/provide needed medicine to a loved one? I give the benefit of the doubt to a lot of cultures but there are areas which I find a complete desert of morality....stoning a rape VICTIM to death is NOT acceptable...EVER! I find that appalling and I would hope that most people would agree.

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Or are you in fact arguing for multiculturalism as the perfect ideal from which to judge other more mono cultures ?

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Well if you're arguing from the 'Collectivist' side then I guess multiculturalism would be considered a great idea and that cultures would just water down and dilute each other, but as an 'Individualist' #1 I think many millions if not tens of millions of people would die in that way and #2 I want people to choose for themselves rather than be dictated to accepting other cultures.

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Who are the people pushing what you refer to as "this multi cultural bullshit" a gentically fecal storm from which all of us arrived, unless of course you are the pure product of incest which thankfully is rare nowadays even in Cornwall and the American South.

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Globalists, Western people with a Collectivist mindset....odd that you mention inbreeding, that is rampant in Pakistan and other tribal areas.

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If you push all the semantics to one side are you really suggesting that Christianity is better than Islam or that America is better than Europe or that the best of your country is better than the worst of another?

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Yes 100% Christianity is better than Islam. Look at the text literally Jesus is a better person than Muhammad or as metaphor and the character Jesus is a more sympathetic character than Muhammad. It is very simple look at Jesus and then look at Muhammad. Did Jesus behead? Muhammad did. Did Jesus order his followers to rape? Muhammad did. Did Jesus order the killing of all infidels? Muhammad did. Did Jesus sleep with a 9 year old? Muhammad did. Did Jesus have multiple wives? Muhammad did. Don't blame me for it, I didn't write either the Bible or Quran...are there beautiful things in both, yes, are there ugly things in both, yes....but Jesus > Muhammad as a person or as a spiritual figure.

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You can't extrapolate abhorrent practices from history and/or various different cultures and then suggest that as proof that your particular current culture is somehow superior? You can't also be expected to be taken seriously when you can't even show a modicum of respect or common sense to me despite manners supposedly being a cornerstone of your own culture ?

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Am I not being courteous right now? I am a human, I am not perfect, I can err....and if I argue with too much passion or sling an insult over the internet what does that equal in your eyes? If I was to mention what I said of Muhammad in Saudi Arabia I would most certainly receive a serious reprimand...yet with freedom of speech I'm allowed to cross a line, and I am also allowed to apologize but I do so of my own free will, I am not forced to.

I am sorry that in the past and more recent past I have offended you. You may take that apology or leave it.

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Where have i given you any indication that I would think anything on your list is a positive thing?

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You do not think some cultures are better than others ergo you must be of the belief that all cultures are equal and if that is the case then well you can either explain why you disagree with those practices or perhaps you would rather not. I won't force you into a corner.

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So I am taking it that you are not an advocate for a kind of cherry picking multiculturalism in which the Judeo heritage of Christianity, the justice system, and democracy itself, is passed off as being a white thing in which a pale Jesus gave special dispensation to Americans to spread the gospel of Greek Democracy by dropping bombs on brown people

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I'm open to goodness, if some cultures provide goodness then fine let them be, others must be corrected or shunned from the society in which I live. Well Republicanism is better than pure Democracy for various reasons I've already addressed numerous times. As for the bombings...I with my 1 vote do not control the foreign policy of the United States of America sir, to imply that I do is very foolish. "Brown people"....how very Social Justice Warrior of you, light up the virtue signal for all to see, it is BEANZ who is most virtuous

Lyle, frankly, has ~taken out the mortgage ~ here on "Beanz"

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I always get a kick out of someone trying to pigeon hole an entire 'culture' or boil it down to some headlines. It's a subject and definition that can very well end up like p4p subjectivity and sheer clusterfukery. It blurs into ethnicity and Nationality but can be much more about simply being a product of environment and immediate surroundings. Country or State wide etc. Just on massive numbers and global diversity, yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker ;D.

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So there's cultural relevance and overall goodness that can come from wife beating? Do tell!

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Thought we went over this once before? No Lyle, you go immediately to an entire religion or Country (?) while in that instance I'm addressing personal experience. We are all so overly self righteous in our "never in my backyard" but I've heard and seen subtleties turning a blind eye or near condoning spousal abuse. Though it is not 'bred' in or taught, at least not directly, and those that do are shits. Simple as. I've seen wives and women beaten up close. Then I've seen said beater have his head pulled through his own arsehole and left in a heap :). I'd encourage anyone witnessing such things to do the very same.

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Challenge accepted.


Defend the Aghori. You know, the folks who made Reza Aslan eat human brains. They cover themselves in cremated remains, and frequently dine on urine and excrement.

The floor is yours, Spicoli, find the silver lining for us and enlighten me to the wisdom of the Aghori.

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Dude. Seriously. How do we go from wife beating to eating brains ??? Sometimes I think some of you are itching so much for discord or a beef nowadays that you fail to see agreement when it's right in front of you..

how's this for a silver lining seeing that you brought up the very same thing, from my original post "..yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker". I'll never meet the Aghori in my lifetime. I may see them on tv but we'll never cross paths that I can confidently say. The only way I eat a brain :vd: is if I turn full Hollywood zombie. Thing is, what else do we know about them. Do we see worth in knowing anything else because they do that foul shit?

And technically speaking we've all seen a few people eat shit :-X. Some whack jobs actually do drink urine. I've seen it in everything from survival courses to athletes and a boxing great doing it on network tv. Not for me though, feck that.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Dude. Seriously. How do we go from wife beating to eating brains ??? Sometimes I think some of you are itching so much for discord or a beef nowadays that you fail to see agreement when it's right in front of you..

how's this for a silver lining seeing that you brought up the very same thing, from my original post "..yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker". I'll never meet the Aghori in my lifetime. I may see them on tv but we'll never cross paths that I can confidently say. The only way I eat a brain :vd: is if I turn full Hollywood zombie. Thing is, what else do we know about them. Do we see worth in knowing anything else because they do that foul shit?

And technically speaking we've all seen a few people eat shit :-X. Some whack jobs actually do drink urine. I've seen it in everything from survival courses to athletes and a boxing great doing it on network tv. Not for me though, feck that.

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Ummm we're talking different cultures and in SOME cultures eating brains is apparently not a taboo, it's a part of their social norms, as is spousal abuse....in MY culture those things are frowned upon.

OK so you'll never meet an Aghori, what about a Muslim would you ever meet a Muslim? What about if he is a Muslim of the belief that wife beating is a pretty fucking good time? What of that Spicoli?


I don't want arguments I want people to get a good understanding of what I'm saying rather than jumping to conclusions

Lyle can you not accept that 99% of the time you are the one jumping to conclusions? I don't think you are always looking for a fight but I know I often enjoy one. At least neither of us would be so pathetic to dislike a post linking to this thread. No other content, just a link to this thread. That is some addiction to conflict right there.Never happy unless picking at a scab. Not you. And don't forget I have not voted yet ;-)

Wouldn't it be great if every thread had like a real time Running man scenario , we all get gloved or tooled up and go through a maze beating the crap out of anyone who doesn't agree with us :)
who be great. winners and losers all get to have many drinks afterwards.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Dude. Seriously. How do we go from wife beating to eating brains ??? Sometimes I think some of you are itching so much for discord or a beef nowadays that you fail to see agreement when it's right in front of you..

how's this for a silver lining seeing that you brought up the very same thing, from my original post "..yes some are clearly 'better'. I don't eat people AND I drive on the sane side of the road so I by comparison am one awesome motherfucker". I'll never meet the Aghori in my lifetime. I may see them on tv but we'll never cross paths that I can confidently say. The only way I eat a brain :vd: is if I turn full Hollywood zombie. Thing is, what else do we know about them. Do we see worth in knowing anything else because they do that foul shit?

And technically speaking we've all seen a few people eat shit :-X. Some whack jobs actually do drink urine. I've seen it in everything from survival courses to athletes and a boxing great doing it on network tv. Not for me though, feck that.

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Ummm we're talking different cultures and in SOME cultures eating brains is apparently not a taboo, it's a part of their social norms, as is spousal abuse....in MY culture those things are frowned upon.

OK so you'll never meet an Aghori, what about a Muslim would you ever meet a Muslim? What about if he is a Muslim of the belief that wife beating is a pretty fucking good time? What of that Spicoli?


I don't want arguments I want people to get a good understanding of what I'm saying rather than jumping to conclusions

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As an individual do you draw a distinction between what you think people 'believe' and what you actually see them do? I've known a couple of Muslims in my life and can say confidently they did not beat their wives. They actually pay taxes and believe in the opportunity that this land provides as long as you're willing to work for it. As stated if I personally see a woman or child being beat then they're getting cuffed up. To date though I've seen more drunkin red necks beat more women than I have Muslims. I have no idea what religion they were. Maybe it's environment or sheer numbers. However what an individual person thinks is not for me to pretend to know. Religion can frankly teaches us all kinds of twisted shit. All of them.

Focusing on violence, not what anybody eats or doesn't eat... it seems the Quran allows and even encourages wife beating in its passages. I don't feel high and mighty enough to claim culture superiority over any other cultures... but this is a definite no-no... at least in our eyes. It's eye-opening to see, however, that a majority of Islamic women agree with wife beating if she's caught cheating. It's ok for them, even if it's not ok for us.

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Originally Posted by X

- The Islamic devotion to charity, which is prescribed within their religion and followed by nearly every Muslim I've met.

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Really? Muslims in Britain? I'm surprised by that. With a straight face I can say the muslims i've known, met, worked for and with in the past were the tightest funkers ever around a pound note. Giving generously to charity is the last thing I would have thought. Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by X

- The Islamic devotion to charity, which is prescribed within their religion and followed by nearly every Muslim I've met.

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Really? Muslims in Britain? I'm surprised by that. With a straight face I can say the muslims i've known, met, worked for and with in the past were the tightest funkers ever around a pound note. Giving generously to charity is the last thing I would have thought. Interesting.

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Yes genuinely. I lived in the Middle East for a long time (Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Saudi and Dubai). I was quite amazed at what percentage of their money they gave away.
i know a smaller amount of Muslims in the UK, but it's fair to say that they are more culturally British than Arab so they donate like any other average Brit.

Culturally British? Yeah that makes sense, being muslim was never an issue. I would tell them, even my boss and his dad, that they're a bunch of hypocrites (look down on drinkers yet happy to profit from it, loved gambling on a variety of things) and laugh at them when they were waffling about the Quran says this and my imam said that - flying carpets, weeping statues, men as big as dinosaurs, fasting etc. They were never offended.

Have the same harmless conversations today, even if the muslims aren't bothered you'd have a bunch of middle-class SJWs reporting you for racism.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

As an individual do you draw a distinction between what you think people 'believe' and what you actually see them do? I've known a couple of Muslims in my life and can say confidently they did not beat their wives. They actually pay taxes and believe in the opportunity that this land provides as long as you're willing to work for it. As stated if I personally see a woman or child being beat then they're getting cuffed up. To date though I've seen more drunkin red necks beat more women than I have Muslims. I have no idea what religion they were. Maybe it's environment or sheer numbers. However what an individual person thinks is not for me to pretend to know. Religion can frankly teaches us all kinds of twisted shit. All of them.

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Hey, I know Muslims too who are the sweetest people I could ever hope to meet (they're Iranian Shia and not Sunni though soooo there might be your difference)....that doesn't change the fact that I've seen Muslims lopping heads off of "infidels" and stoning rape victims to death in other countries...just because that stuff I haven't witnessed in person doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I've yet to witness a gangland killing but I know they happen....I don't know if I've witnessed a complete solar eclipse but I don't have to see it first hand to know it happens, I haven't witnessed a baby being born first hand but I know they ain't brought to the house by a stork ya feel me?

@Spicoli
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...merica/391760/
....would you care to dispute Ayaan Hirsi Ali?


Yes, drunken red necks can/have/will beat their wives too, white collar workers will do it too, but do you not see the difference man? WE DON'T ACCEPT THAT! We don't tolerate that shit! The culture in the United States is that spousal abuse is a horrible thing, it's against the fucking law! That's my point man.

:tumbleweed:




Soooo does I win dis debate then?

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

it seems the Quran allows and even encourages wife beating in its passages. I don't feel high and mighty enough to claim culture superiority over any other cultures... but this is a definite no-no... at least in our eyes. It's eye-opening to see, however, that a majority of Islamic women agree with wife beating if she's caught cheating. It's ok for them, even if it's not ok for us.

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Tito, The Koran may well say that, but don't forget the stuff that the Christian Bible says too:

- explicit support for slavery, plus rules saying it's OK to beat them hard enough they are incapacitated for two days.

- blatant sexism. Saying men own women, they should all be virgins until they marry (but men don't). They should be put to death for adultery and premarital sex. If a woman makes a noise while being rated, it proves she agreed to it and should be put to death.

- demanding murder. There are whole lists of people who it is OK to kill. Indeed Christians are told who they should murder.

- saying that handicapped people should be killed early on. If you find an older one, it's a good thing to kill them straight away.

- ethnic cleansing is a good thing because if you murder a whole tribe or race, you can have their land and God will be pleased.

- that animal sacrifice is pleasing to God. That animals have no rights and Man is put on earth to command them all.

- killing and torture of all non-believers is an explicit command from God.

All those things are in the Bible, in great detail. Just like the Koran, the Bible is a book of its time. Christians surely can't ridicule the Koran having things in it that we find outrageous.

The problem is the people who do take these books literally - and let's not forget that there are many Christians who do this as well. Granted, they didn't seem to be blowing people up and beheading them ..... but they certainly did worse in the past.


Also, the majority of Muslim women I know most certainly don't agree with wife beating. They are not crazy! Where do you get the data that says the majority of them agree with it?

If I was. Mod on this site, I too would demand human and animal sacrifices, as I would find them pleasing to me.

Let's not forget that the Christian Bible is just the Jewish Torah. ( with the gospel tacked on for good measure). Also enormous chapters of the Jewish Torah were simply plagiarized and put into the Quran