Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record

LOL whatever ross, I don't even care about this thread anymore,

Yeah sure you can use all that to triangulate Holmes and then Spinks all the way to the top can't you..

Let me get it right for you, Holmes beat Ray when he was an old man who then went on to trouble McCall and Lewis so Holmes could have done the same to them too right. And because Holmes was older then, the younger version must have been able to kill Lewis right? And because Spinks beat Holmes when he was young he must have been better than Ray, McCall and even maybe Lewis too right?

There is a reason why they say triangulation doesn't work mate. People do have on and off days and styles make fights still applies to boxing, it's not completely superceded by size/athleticism/skills.

Maybe the old Holmes was heavier than the younger Holmes.. And maybe the old Holmes was smarter and more experienced than the younger one. And maybe Holmes did not know how to handle the smaller faster Spinks because Holmes was historically used to BEING that faster guy! And he wasn't used to chasing a small opponent around, Holmes usually fought back foot or stand up, he was never a killer or a banger like Tyson or like Arreola.

Just think about all that, and watch the 2 fights Arreola/Adamek and then Spinks/Holmes and see for yourself the difference is not so striking as you think and imo, the newer fight gets the nod!

I don't care how historically is remembered. Today everybody knows who Adamek and Arreola are and nobody knows anything much of Spinks except that skinny little guy who Tyson KO'd who should never have shared the same ring in the first place.

Personally...I see 3 maybe 4 fights left in Wladimir's career. I don't think he'll enter the ring @ 40.

Max your deluded and probably got in to boxing after Wlads last loss.

Spinks will be remembered as the undisputed light heavyweight champion of the world and as part of the lineal heavyweight championship.

What will Adamek or Arreola be remembered for?

Adamek for beating Arreola and Arreola for losing to Adamek.

You are refusing to believe that it is even possible that Spinks could beat Adamek. Spinks awkward style, combinations and power would big time trouble Wlad.

Chambers gave Wlad his most difficult fight and landed plenty of shots recently but he let himself down with his fitness. Spinks would give Wlad fits!

A lot of people thought Alvarez was going to be too strong for Mayweather but it just turns out it was probably Mayweathers easiest win.

Chris Byrd beat Vitali. (The same Vitali that hammered Arreola). Made him quit where others have carried on. Spinks would have a field day.

You are ether posting from school, or the job centre;)

Looking at Arreola Record who exactly would you put as his best win because when came to contenders he kinda fell short every time he step up so he is not much different the Cooney really. I mean he has no real notable wins and against any one that could box he been fucked. This half the reason i don think he going to beat Spinks who was a complete boxer most of his ko wins are against bums i only see one guy few ok guys he kod and they were nothing but gate keepers or prospects that did nothing really. Acutally now that i view it more a lot of Arreola opponents were kinda jokes with shit records anyone good he lost to so i pretty Confident that even a old Holmes and Moving up in weight Spinks beat the plodder with ok hands but pretty shit footwork which going to be his down fall for most great fighters.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by ross

Holmes beats everyone that Adamek fought. Including Vitali.

Cooney would hurt Arreola. Arreola would be ideal for Cooneys big left hooks.

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Arreola would beat Holmes.

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Originally Posted by ross

Max your deluded and probably got in to boxing after Wlads last loss.

Spinks will be remembered as the undisputed light heavyweight champion of the world and as part of the lineal heavyweight championship.

What will Adamek or Arreola be remembered for?

Adamek for beating Arreola and Arreola for losing to Adamek.

You are refusing to believe that it is even possible that Spinks could beat Adamek. Spinks awkward style, combinations and power would big time trouble Wlad.

Chambers gave Wlad his most difficult fight and landed plenty of shots recently but he let himself down with his fitness. Spinks would give Wlad fits!

A lot of people thought Alvarez was going to be too strong for Mayweather but it just turns out it was probably Mayweathers easiest win.

Chris Byrd beat Vitali. (The same Vitali that hammered Arreola). Made him quit where others have carried on. Spinks would have a field day.

You are ether posting from school, or the job centre;)

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Show me the part where I said that Spinks has no chance against Adamek?

I said that MY OPINION was that Adamek is better.

As for the notoriety, of course Spinks is one of the best lhw champs of all time and is prominent in boxing circles like this. To a casual modern fan however, Spinks is remembered if at all, for being that little guy wasted by Tyson. Only proper boxing fans really know who he is! Unlike Tyson and Ali, everybody knows who they are!

And that's all negative I had to say about the man, I'm not bagging Spinks, simply saying that I don't think he would pose a SERIOUS factor at HW, probably somewhere in the neighbourhood of Adamek!

You might be right about Holmes/Arreola, I agree some versions could beat him based on what you said.

I don't think any version of Spinks stands a chance though.

Chris Arreola moves better than the version of Holmes that Spinks fought... Watch him. Holmes plods, doesn't move his head or body and just paws with the jab all night, hardly ever throws any rights and when he does they are wild and as commentator said "telegraphed all the way from Reno!" lol.

You gotta admit, Arreola would NEVER fight that badly! Just watch Holmes in that one, then watch Arreola in the Adamek fight and see exactly what I'm talking about. This isn't a reflection on any mans whole career here.

Who the fuck has Arreola lost to?

He lost to Adamek who was the smaller man. The fight was very even up to the last couple rounds and if you look into it you will see that Arreola was badly injured in the hand half way through that fight and could not throw any effective rights anymore, so he finished the fight with one hand.

Stiverne he looked to be WINNING the fight and common sense says he likely would have until he got busted by that big shot to his nose and had to fight an entire battle with that!

And finally Vitali Klitschko, well, no explaination required there.

So no, I don't think Arreola has dropped the ball much at all to be honest and has never properly been stopped. I'd say he is a front runner myself.

If Spinks had beaten several solid HW's I would rate him higher honestly but I'm not prepared to rate Spinks at HW very highly based on close decision wins against a single opponent, even if it is Holmes, especially considering how uncompetitive he was VS Tyson. You know other decent but not great fighters did much better against Tyson don't you?

Arreola has knocked real HW's blocks off for ages and even in his losing fights there have been circumstances and he's done alright. I cannot see Michael Spinks wading his way through all Arreola's opponents at 200lbs unscathed!

Jesus Max;D I suppose the fact that Arreola clearly lost to Adamek while Spinks-Holmes was very close doesn't count for anything here:confused: You admit Holmes looked like crap, admit that Spinks is at least on par with Adamek, and yet Arreola has never shown worse form than old Larry. How about prime Holmes-Travis Walker? There's a mega dream fight right, what happens in that one Max? Could Holmes dig down deep and make it out of the first like Arreola did, or was he to much of a primitive punch bag.

Who has Arreola beaten? And which one of these killers would Spinks have been bested by. Maybe even Holmes would've lost to some of them? I'd love to know.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Jesus Max;D I suppose the fact that Arreola clearly lost to Adamek while Spinks-Holmes was very close doesn't count for anything here:confused: You admit Holmes looked like crap, admit that Spinks is at least on par with Adamek, and yet Arreola has never shown worse form than old Larry. How about prime Holmes-Travis Walker? There's a mega dream fight right, what happens in that one Max? Could Holmes dig down deep and make it out of the first like Arreola did, or was he to much of a primitive punch bag.

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Now your being silly man, I've never said anything like that about Holmes. I'm not promoting Arreola as the best fighter in the world here, obviously he is not a really smooth boxer like Spinks or Holmes can be.

MOST times I think Spinks will be found and bashed by Arreola, that's all I'm saying. The Adamek fight was not as 1-sided as you say it was, it was comparable in closeness to the Spinks/Holmes fight.

Chris landed some really big shots on Adamek who has a concrete jaw for his size. I don't think Spinks would withstand them like Adamek did.

I am not claiming that Arreola should be rated better than Holmes who I do rank highly! It's just that Holmes was not as incredible as he used to think he was.

Spinks is an opponent that I think Holmes would have performed better against if he fought more aggressively against, as Arreola would. Also Holmes didn't have the power that Arreola does to bang him out.

I have noted considerable uncertainty on this one also I might add.

These 4 guys would make for excellent cross era fights could that be possible!

If you think Adamek didn't beat Arreola more clearly than Spinks did Holmes, that would suggest you are in fact a lunchbox. Tell me again who Arreola has beaten, or what fight seperates him from basically any fringe contender from decades ago. It's strange the way you often use him as a benchmark to support your view of the present HW's, given he hasn't done a damn thing. The guy doesn't even have any functional size advantage on so many past fighters you dismiss as being to small for todays division. He is what, 6'2, and weighs about 230 when he is still a tub of goo. If he dropped a couple of bra sizes and lost that spare tire he'd likely be a cruiserweight himself;D

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Originally Posted by p4pking

If you think Adamek didn't beat Arreola more clearly than Spinks did Holmes, that would suggest you are in fact a lunchbox. Tell me again who Arreola has beaten, or what fight seperates him from basically any fringe contender from decades ago. It's strange the way you often use him as a benchmark to support your view of the present HW's, given he hasn't done a damn thing. The guy doesn't even have any functional size advantage on so many past fighters you dismiss as being to small for todays division. He is what, 6'2, and weighs about 230 when he is still a tub of goo. If he dropped a couple of bra sizes and lost that spare tire he'd likely be a cruiserweight himself;D

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Exactly!

Some fucking sanity!

Same goes for Stiverne

It makes me laugh that people don't consider Cunningham to be a true heavyweight but what does that mean these days? Being fat?

Cunningham is absolutely ripped to shreds at 210lb. If Arreola and Stiverne got to the same body fat percentage they would look pathetic for heavyweights and would be lighter.

As for Wlad being to big for anyone of the past. Eddie Chambers was 209lb and was giving him fits. Even managed to out wrestle him by lifting him and throwing him to the floor like a big lumox!
Eddies fitness let him down. If he had a real team behind him then as he now does he would have beaten Wlad, or at the very least been robbed and made him look stupid.

There is the realy question now and it has been asked again by another poster. Who the fuck has Chris beat that was any good in the scene he not a giant either. If that is admeks best win maybe the chambers is above it then his resume is worst then Spinks and the talent of them.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

If you think Adamek didn't beat Arreola more clearly than Spinks did Holmes, that would suggest you are in fact a lunchbox. Tell me again who Arreola has beaten, or what fight seperates him from basically any fringe contender from decades ago. It's strange the way you often use him as a benchmark to support your view of the present HW's, given he hasn't done a damn thing. The guy doesn't even have any functional size advantage on so many past fighters you dismiss as being to small for todays division. He is what, 6'2, and weighs about 230 when he is still a tub of goo. If he dropped a couple of bra sizes and lost that spare tire he'd likely be a cruiserweight himself;D

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You kidding?

Chris Arreola is 6'4" tall and weighs about 240lbs, he is 230 if he is in shape!

He is basically the same size as a prime George Foreman except with a thicker bone structure and yeah a bit of fat. He's not looking so bad these days though, you are not looking at a fat out of shape bloke there, you are looking at a conditioned one. What's wrong with a bit of chub anyway, it's the HW division not the dieters division. If he was obese and it was a sign of a lack of training then sure I'd agree but that's obviously not the case now. You can be very fit and still be fat through over eating. I've never seen Arreola gas so he carries it alright and the fat still contributes to punching power and doesn't slow you down as much as muscles can. He should weigh 230 when properly trained.

Arreola's opponents are not too bad at all. The only difference is that they are not famous opponents.

I use him as a bench mark because I like his style and fights and he is a more comparable boxer than say the Klitschko's who are WAY beyond most past boxers.

Anyway I'm not arguing over that shit here, this was about Holmes, Spinks, Adamek and Arreola on a level playing field. I don't think I once used era at all in our discussion of them.

Yeah, Adamek convincingly beat Arreola, I didn't see Holmes do much of anything effective against Spinks who beat him to the punch everytime. I think I seen Holmes land one really hard shot on Spinks the whole 15 round fight. Arreola landed heaps of bombs on Adamek. Adamek ran away with it the last few rounds, Arreola had a bad hand. What was Holmes' excuse again?

What you want me to say? Spinks beat the great Holmes so he's a force to be reckoned with at HW? Well I'm sorry but I still don't think he'd be a serious factor despite that.

But hey, I've not MUCH problem with your opinion on this one anyway, it's not outrageous to me like SOME of the claims are, he did beat a great fighter in Holmes. I just think that certain versions of Holmes could have beaten him (younger one) and it shows some of Holmes' limitations (was not good at pinning down and finishing swift fighters, did not have really hard punching power to put away fighters cold.)