Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Duran beat Leonard. You can't find anyone on Floyd's record/resume close to prime Leonard. Not even close. Duran also completely cleaned out lightweight. Completely cleaned it out and had only suffered one avenged loss prior to beating Leonard. Again, just off of that I rank him higher than Floyd.
My two main points for Armstrong are his beating ATG/HOFers and holding 3 of 8 available titles simultaneously. The defenses in one year was thrown in to show how busy he was. To ur point on quality of opposition: if Floyd averaged two fights a month he would get the benefit of the doubt, as long as he still fought the top guys along the way.
I can find someone close to prime Leonard on Mayweather's resume. It's Floyd Mayweather. He's the most agile, dexterous, skilled fighter of his weight classes and era. He doesn't have a Leonard to fight.
If Floyd were allowed to hold titles in three weight divisions at once he probably would but that's prohibited now. He has held titles in two weight divisions at the same time but has always been forced to give one up.
Floyd has beat ATG/HOFers and future HOFers as well... Oscar, Arturo, Shane? Canelo?, JMM?.
Alright shortbus, here is boxing lesson #100 for you.
Oscar: Yes, he is a HOFer. He was also well past his best/prime when he fought Floyd. You don't get full credit for squeaking out a win vs. a guy who is over the hill.
Gatti: ??????? Bwahahahahahaa. You're a good troll. This was a very clever guy to include. Considered a "C" fighter by Floyd. Not an impressive win at all, and Gatti was on the tail end of a career that saw him take numerous beatings.
Canelo: Hahaha. How do you figure he is a HOFer? You are an effective troll because you have zero qualms making completely asinine comments. Canelo has disputed wins over Lara and Trout, and those are his best wins!!! Definite HOF material.
JMM: You don't get full credit for beating a guy jumping two weights and completely refusing to make the agreed upon weight.
You're welcome
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Interesting direction this thread has turned.
If Duran @ 5'7 (66 inch reach) is brought up as beating a prime leonard 5'10 (74 inch reach), then does that make Duran better than a (prime) Leonard? Yes, it's why Duran is usually ranked higher than Leonard on most p4p lists.
When SRL won the rematch Nov 80' was Duran in his prime? Or did a (prime)Ray avenge a loss to an (out of prime) Duran? Duran started his decline after beating Leonard the first time, partying and barely training for the rematch and putting on tremendous weight prior to the rematch and then made this a habit for the rest of his career.
What was SRL's prime? He turned pro in 77' - 82. One fight in 84. & was he still in his prime when he came back in 87? He went 3-3. Not sure what point you are trying to make here, but wouldn't consider him prime in 87.
As for PBF- he fought a slick, fast south paw in Judah ( I think Benitez for SRL) was better than Judah, but IMO they compare as mobile fighters with speed & pop. Only you would feel they are comparable. Judah was destroyed vs. Kostya and is nowhere near the boxer ATG Benitez was. If you consider them comparable, it is only because you are completely biased and want to fluff Floyd's record.
Castillo is no Duran, by a longshot, but PBF took on a bodypunching hombre for sure & had to take the title from Hernandez @ 5'11. It was no run fight, PBF stood and fought. Castillo won the first fight, and wasn't an elite fighter. Hernandez stated prior to the Floyd fight that he was done boxing and would retire after the Floyd fight. He didn't offer very much resistance at all.
SRL 5'10 vs Hearns 6'1 w/71% KO ratio per boxrec -- SRL was down on all card till the KO
PBF @ 5'8 vs Corrales 5'10 1/2 w/73% KO ratio per boxrec-- PBF dropped Diego 5 times This is a joke. Hearns vs. Chico? No comparison. Hearns is an ATG, prime, undefeated welter who destroyed guys like Cuevas and Duran. Chico was a formidable opponent and good win, but his big win was over Gainer. Hearns was versatile and his fight vs. Leonard is one of the best in history, as was his fight vs. Hagler. Chico had a great win and fight vs. Castillo, but Castillo is no where near the level of Hagler/leonard. This was a pathetic and sad comparison.
SRL simply didn't fight long enough to merit a better resume than PBF. struggled with Benitez & Hearns to the end & He didn't clean out a single divison- Like Duran did. So are we now comparing Duran's competition to PBF's? Leonard fought the much better competition. It's not even open for debate. Floyd feasted on more sub par competition than Leonard, and he never fought the ATGs in their prime like Leonard did.
Since Pacquio never cleaned a division either -lost in almost every weight class he fought & had no top names from 95-03'- technically no (in prime)competition till 09' IMO. You are in denial and this is an ignorant statement. Barrera was ranked p4p when Pac fought him. Ledwaba was undefeated. Morales was prime as was JMM. Pac never lost at Featherweight. Pretty much your whole statement is wrong.
...now JMM cleaned out the same divison as Duran.
So would it now change from PBF vs Pac comp to: JMM vs Duran's comp?:lickish:
@ LW JMM beat linear champ Casamayor, the man who called out Pac (Juan Diaz) the other dude who called out Pac (Katsidis) This was after moving up from where he beat Gainer, Salido, Juarez & MAB.
One could argue that PBF's comp is better than Pac's, SRL's
& JMM's comp was better than Duran @ Fther & LW. Duran fought more @ LW, but also had more tomato can-fighters as well. I think you are the only one, maybe Rocco and TMT also, who would argue that PBF had better comp. It's pretty silly, and most knowledgable historians completely disagree with you. You are delusional.
Head to Head: Duran vs JMM @ LW would be a dream fight. I'd edge Duran, but thats speculation. Factually? JMM & PBF has fought more quality and versatile competition- with PBF doing it 18 years; quantity and quality.
JMM has fought very good competition, but not more versatile or better. Floyd isn't even in the debate.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Oscar is a first ballot HOF inductee. Floyd moved up to fight him at his natural fighting weight and he beat him before Manny did. Manny fought ODL at a weight Oscar hadn't fought at in 8 years. Some accomplishment. I haven't seen anyone but you list Oscar as one of Manny's biggest wins. There are numerous wins much more impressive like Cotto, Hatton, Morales, Bradley, JMM, Barerra, Ledwaba...etc. stick with those.
Gatti is also in the HOF. This is a fact. Mayweather dismantled him in 5 rounds. Gatti is in the HOF for the excitement he generated, not his boxing pedigree. Gatti was a tough guy and good man, but the fact that you put him on as a big win for PBF shows how much you have to reach. Angel Manfredy beat a more prime version of Gatti, as did Mickey Ward. Should they be HOF too????
JMM is certainly a future HOFmer.
Mosely is a future HOFmer.
Canelo may also be a future HOFer. Based off of what? What has Canelo done to even merit uttering the words HOF with his name? You are delusional.
If Floyd were allowed to hold titles in three weight divisions at once he probably would but that's prohibited now. He has held titles in two weight divisions at the same time but has always been forced to give one up.
Manny has faced tougher comp. I'm interested to see who he picks after Algieri as I know it will be a big fight.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Manny picking Algeiri is more of a joke than anyone Floyd has fought in the last 10 years or so.
At first, I was justifying Manny picking Algeiri because he was moving down to 140 and wanted to grab a trinket to facilitate a showdown with Danny Garcia. I didn't know until recently that the fight was happening at WW, a weight Algeiri has never fought at, and therefore is for Manny's WBO WW belt and not Algeiri's LWW belt.
It's one of the most blatant examples of a hand picked patsy I've ever seen.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Manny picking Algeiri is more of a joke than anyone Floyd has fought in the last 10 years or so.
At first, I was justifying Manny picking Algeiri because he was moving down to 140 and wanted to grab a trinket to facilitate a showdown with Danny Garcia. I didn't know until recently that the fight was happening at WW, a weight Algeiri has never fought at, and therefore is for Manny's WBO WW belt and not Algeiri's LWW belt.
It's one of the most blatant examples of a hand picked patsy I've ever seen.
I think it is a weak match up, and I won't pay the money to watch it or point to it as one of Manny's good, or even solid wins after. That being said, after coming off of a Bradley type opponent, I'm good with him having a soft fight. I actually think Algieri would beat Maidana, so I don't really see your outrage for the fight. I would agree with you that neither Algieri or Maidana were/are PPV worthy fighters. If Manny starts fighting soft touches back to back, I will be the first to be critical. Hard for me to fault him when he fights someone like JMM and is KTFO, comes back for Rios (as a soft touch comeback fight), then takes on Bradley who is undefeated and just beaten JMM before taking on another guy not at that elite level. I see Manny picking Garcia or some big name after Algieri, so other than it being on PPV, I don't mind it. I thought the kid looked good against Prov and he actually looks like the bigger man to me when I see them side by side. Manny should be 135-140 in my opinion.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Oscar is a first ballot HOF inductee. Floyd moved up to fight him at his natural fighting weight and he beat him before Manny did. Manny fought ODL at a weight Oscar hadn't fought at in 8 years. Some accomplishment.
Gatti is also in the HOF. This is a fact. Mayweather dismantled him in 5 rounds.
JMM is certainly a future HOFmer.
Mosely is a future HOFmer.
Canelo may also be a future HOFmer.
If Floyd were allowed to hold titles in three weight divisions at once he probably would but that's prohibited now. He has held titles in two weight divisions at the same time but has always been forced to give one up.
Als if he was allowed defend tem against whoever he wants he probably would. Pesky mandatories
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imp
Bradley already beat prov and he is nothing special.
People are trying to create these european beasts in every divison but prov isnt one of them.
You should tell that to Timmy.
"A few weeks after the fight, I was still affected by the damage that was done," he said. "My speech was a little bit off. I was slurring a little bit. But after about two months, I cleared up and I have my wits about me now." - Tim Bradley
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Manny picking Algeiri is more of a joke than anyone Floyd has fought in the last 10 years or so.
At first, I was justifying Manny picking Algeiri because he was moving down to 140 and wanted to grab a trinket to facilitate a showdown with Danny Garcia. I didn't know until recently that the fight was happening at WW, a weight Algeiri has never fought at, and therefore is for Manny's WBO WW belt and not Algeiri's LWW belt.
It's one of the most blatant examples of a hand picked patsy I've ever seen.
It's a catchweight fight. Remember it's all about what have you done for me lately. Unbeaten guy coming off "world" title win, makes sense
