Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.
I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.
If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.
If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.
If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.
I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.
Yes, it does work both ways.
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember.
Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
You will just have to deal with that.
Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?
What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.
And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.
Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.
Why you so angry with Pac?
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.
I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.
If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.
If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.
If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.
I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.
Yes, it does work both ways.
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember.
Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
You will just have to deal with that.
Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?
What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.
And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.
Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.
Why you so angry with Pac?
I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.
There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.
I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.
If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.
If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.
If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.
I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.
Yes, it does work both ways.
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember.
Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
You will just have to deal with that.
Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?
What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.
And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.
Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.
Why you so angry with Pac?
I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and
I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.
There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.
Why were you critical of Floyd? It was Marquez who demanded Floyd cut weight and got him to agree to come in like a corpse at 145lbs.
Your logic is totally inconsistent. Manny is from the same weight class as Marquez and he's fighting guys at 147 and Margarito even higher than that. And he's kicking their asses. But in his case he's being the bully? I'm lost.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.
I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.
If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.
If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.
If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.
I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.
Yes, it does work both ways.
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember.
Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
You will just have to deal with that.
Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?
What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.
And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.
Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.
Why you so angry with Pac?
I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and
I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.
There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.
Why were you critical of Floyd? It was Marquez who demanded Floyd cut weight and got him to agree to come in like a corpse at 145lbs.
Your logic is totally inconsistent. Manny is from the same weight class as Marquez and he's fighting guys at 147 and Margarito even higher than that. And he's kicking their asses. But in his case he's being the bully? I'm lost.
I was critical of Floyd for taking a fight with a LW. It was a mismatch. There should have been no fight, let alone catchweights. Of course Floyd ignored the CW anyway, so perhaps he agrees about CW's. :-\
As for Pac, we have already seen that he is unnatural and somehow able to carry the weight. The request for CW's is just not justified. Just fight them in their own weightclasses and be done with it. Otherwise there will always be detractors.
I happen to think Manny is a great too, so would much rather he just stay within the existing weight parameters and stop playing games at the scales.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.
I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.
If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.
If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.
If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.
I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.
Yes, it does work both ways.
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember.
Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
You will just have to deal with that.
Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?
What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.
And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.
Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.
Why you so angry with Pac?
I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and
I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.
There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.
Why were you critical of Floyd? It was Marquez who demanded Floyd cut weight and got him to agree to come in like a corpse at 145lbs.
Your logic is totally inconsistent. Manny is from the same weight class as Marquez and he's fighting guys at 147 and Margarito even higher than that. And he's kicking their asses. But in his case he's being the bully? I'm lost.
I was critical of Floyd for taking a fight with a LW. It was a mismatch. There should have been no fight, let alone catchweights. Of course Floyd ignored the CW anyway, so perhaps he agrees about CW's. :-\
As for Pac, we have already seen that he is unnatural and somehow able to carry the weight. The request for CW's is just not justified. Just fight them in their own weightclasses and be done with it. Otherwise there will always be detractors.
I happen to think Manny is a great too, so would much rather he just stay within the existing weight parameters and stop playing games at the scales.
It's not that he carries the weight mate, it's that he is so good he is able to beat people despite being smaller!
He didn't carry any extra weight against Margarito. He climbed over the ropes weighing 148lbs, which incidently is the same as he weighed when climbed over the ropes to face Juan Manuel Marquez.
He hasn't bulked up and added loads of weight. He's basically stayed the same size and just fought bigger and bigger men. He's won because of skill and speed, nothing to do with carrying extra weight better because he is hardly carry any extra weight.
He dominates them becuase he is brilliant.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.
I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.
If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.
If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.
If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.
I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.
Yes, it does work both ways.
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember.
Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
You will just have to deal with that.
Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?
What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.
And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.
Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.
Why you so angry with Pac?
I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and
I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.
There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.
Why were you critical of Floyd? It was Marquez who demanded Floyd cut weight and got him to agree to come in like a corpse at 145lbs.
Your logic is totally inconsistent. Manny is from the same weight class as Marquez and he's fighting guys at 147 and Margarito even higher than that. And he's kicking their asses. But in his case he's being the bully? I'm lost.
I was critical of Floyd for taking a fight with a LW. It was a mismatch. There should have been no fight, let alone catchweights. Of course Floyd ignored the CW anyway, so perhaps he agrees about CW's. :-\
As for Pac, we have already seen that he is unnatural and somehow able to carry the weight. The request for CW's is just not justified. Just fight them in their own weightclasses and be done with it. Otherwise there will always be detractors.
I happen to think Manny is a great too, so would much rather he just stay within the existing weight parameters and stop playing games at the scales.
It's not that he carries the weight mate, it's that he is so good he is able to beat people despite being smaller!
He didn't carry any extra weight against Margarito. He climbed over the ropes weighing 148lbs, which incidently is the same as he weighed when climbed over the ropes to face Juan Manuel Marquez.
He hasn't bulked up and added loads of weight. He's basically stayed the same size and just fought bigger and bigger men. He's won because of skill and speed, nothing to do with carrying extra weight better because he is hardly carry any extra weight.
He dominates them becuase he is brilliant.
So just fight them without catchweights. It isn't that much to ask.
He is an extraordinary fighter, but you really shouldn't be giving cynics easy ammunition. Right, I am hoping to see Amir Khan get knocked out, so I will talk later! ;D
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.
I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.
If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.
If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.
If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.
I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.
Yes, it does work both ways.
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember.
Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
You will just have to deal with that.
Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?
What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.
And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.
Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.
Why you so angry with Pac?
I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and
I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.
There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.
Why were you critical of Floyd? It was Marquez who demanded Floyd cut weight and got him to agree to come in like a corpse at 145lbs.
Your logic is totally inconsistent. Manny is from the same weight class as Marquez and he's fighting guys at 147 and Margarito even higher than that. And he's kicking their asses. But in his case he's being the bully? I'm lost.
I was critical of Floyd for taking a fight with a LW. It was a mismatch. There should have been no fight, let alone catchweights. Of course Floyd ignored the CW anyway, so perhaps he agrees about CW's. :-\
As for Pac, we have already seen that he is unnatural and somehow able to carry the weight. The request for CW's is just not justified. Just fight them in their own weightclasses and be done with it. Otherwise there will always be detractors.
I happen to think Manny is a great too, so would much rather he just stay within the existing weight parameters and stop playing games at the scales.
It's not that he carries the weight mate, it's that he is so good he is able to beat people despite being smaller!
He didn't carry any extra weight against Margarito. He climbed over the ropes weighing 148lbs, which incidently is the same as he weighed when climbed over the ropes to face Juan Manuel Marquez.
He hasn't bulked up and added loads of weight. He's basically stayed the same size and just fought bigger and bigger men. He's won because of skill and speed, nothing to do with carrying extra weight better because he is hardly carry any extra weight.
He dominates them becuase he is brilliant.
So just fight them without catchweights. It isn't that much to ask.
He is an extraordinary fighter, but you really shouldn't be giving cynics easy ammunition. Right, I am hoping to see Amir Khan get knocked out, so I will talk later! ;D
But the guys he was fighting aren't the same size as him mate. When fighters are different sizes they have to compromise. Clearly Manny wanted to control the amount of weight he gave up. Even with the catchweight he gave up 17lbs to Margarito. That fight should have taken place at welterweight. Margarito was a career welterweight but Manny let him move UP to 150 lbs. He weighed in at just over 146 against Shane Mosley. It was the fourth highest weight he had weighed in his entire career. Weight drain was NOT an issue. I'm trying to stick to Hornfingers topic here, weight drain. Margarito wasn't weighed drained, in fact it was the opposite, he was allowed an extra 3 lbs compared to the rest of his career.
Manny is an awesome fighter.
And you were wrong about Amir too. How long have I been the only one saying he would go on to be a superstar and compete against the world's best. One step closer tonight. Just think a British fighter headlining a HBO card. Doesn't happen very often, hasn't happened for 24 year old since probably Naseem.
The boy done good.
Watch him dominate Maidana tonight ;D
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out
Good for you.
Quote:
If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would.
Yes, I definitely would. And if I'm on top of the boxing world and can dictate a catchweight so that my opponents doesn't have undue advantage, then I also would. You most likely would, too.
Quote:
Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
For you to come up with that statement (in bold), I am sure that you know what were the actual fight weights (not the 24 hr weight in) of Cotto or Margarito in their last three fights. I did not hear you complain about them not being comfortable in their actual fighting weight prior to the Pacquiao fight so surely there is a remarkable difference in those actual weights. Do you know what their actual fight weights were so that I may understand your contention?
Quote:
You say that people will not remember. Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
But a lot of the people like you (and that includes me) and those who aren't into propaganda today would most likely not even be alive 50 years from now. The future generations would not be thinking of catchweights when they hear about Pacquiao as much as not a lot of people even knows that Henry Armstrong had been in a catchweight. Now that I know about it, I don't even care. I still put Henry Armstrong in high regard.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.
I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.
If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.
If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.
If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.
I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.
Yes, it does work both ways.
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember.
Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
You will just have to deal with that.
Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?
What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.
And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.
Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.
Why you so angry with Pac?
I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and
I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.
There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.
Why were you critical of Floyd? It was Marquez who demanded Floyd cut weight and got him to agree to come in like a corpse at 145lbs.
Your logic is totally inconsistent. Manny is from the same weight class as Marquez and he's fighting guys at 147 and Margarito even higher than that. And he's kicking their asses. But in his case he's being the bully? I'm lost.
I was critical of Floyd for taking a fight with a LW. It was a mismatch. There should have been no fight, let alone catchweights. Of course Floyd ignored the CW anyway, so perhaps he agrees about CW's. :-\
As for Pac, we have already seen that he is unnatural and somehow able to carry the weight. The request for CW's is just not justified. Just fight them in their own weightclasses and be done with it. Otherwise there will always be detractors.
I happen to think Manny is a great too, so would much rather he just stay within the existing weight parameters and stop playing games at the scales.
It's not that he carries the weight mate, it's that he is so good he is able to beat people despite being smaller!
He didn't carry any extra weight against Margarito. He climbed over the ropes weighing 148lbs, which incidently is the same as he weighed when climbed over the ropes to face Juan Manuel Marquez.
He hasn't bulked up and added loads of weight. He's basically stayed the same size and just fought bigger and bigger men. He's won because of skill and speed, nothing to do with carrying extra weight better because he is hardly carry any extra weight.
He dominates them becuase he is brilliant.
So just fight them without catchweights. It isn't that much to ask.
He is an extraordinary fighter, but you really shouldn't be giving cynics easy ammunition. Right, I am hoping to see Amir Khan get knocked out, so I will talk later! ;D
But the guys he was fighting aren't the same size as him mate. When fighters are different sizes they have to compromise. Clearly Manny wanted to control the amount of weight he gave up. Even with the catchweight he gave up 17lbs to Margarito. That fight should have taken place at welterweight. Margarito was a career welterweight but Manny let him move UP to 150 lbs. He weighed in at just over 146 against Shane Mosley. It was the fourth highest weight he had weighed in his entire career. Weight drain was NOT an issue. I'm trying to stick to Hornfingers topic here, weight drain. Margarito wasn't weighed drained, in fact it was the opposite, he was allowed an extra 3 lbs compared to the rest of his career.
Manny is an awesome fighter.
And you were wrong about Amir too. How long have I been the only one saying he would go on to be a superstar and compete against the world's best. One step closer tonight. Just think a British fighter headlining a HBO card. Doesn't happen very often, hasn't happened for 24 year old since probably Naseem.
The boy done good.
Watch him dominate Maidana tonight ;D
Yep, good fight, but I think Khan has met his maker. Rematch!
You say that when fighters are different sizes they have to compromise. Why? If the fighters are a different size then they should be fighting in different weight classes. That is why they exist. If you want to fight at LMW then you should fight at LMW. You shouldn't be asking an opponent to come down to 150 pounds. If you want to fight at WW then fair enough, do so. But you shouldn't ask your opponent to come down to 145. Either you can handle fighters in that weight class or you can't. In Manny's case it seems that he can handle these fighters, so why not respect the sport and fit into the existing weight bands?
Whenever I see a catchweight fight I shall be critical as I don't think they are neccessary. It is just a tool being used by the powerful to try and command every advantage that they can muster. It simply detracts from a fight and raises questions.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InTheNeutralCorner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.
I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.
If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.
If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.
If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.
I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.
Yes, it does work both ways.
As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.
And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember.
Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.
You will just have to deal with that.
Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?
What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.
And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.
Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.
Why you so angry with Pac?
I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and
I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.
There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.
Why were you critical of Floyd? It was Marquez who demanded Floyd cut weight and got him to agree to come in like a corpse at 145lbs.
Your logic is totally inconsistent. Manny is from the same weight class as Marquez and he's fighting guys at 147 and Margarito even higher than that. And he's kicking their asses. But in his case he's being the bully? I'm lost.
I was critical of Floyd for taking a fight with a LW. It was a mismatch. There should have been no fight, let alone catchweights. Of course Floyd ignored the CW anyway, so perhaps he agrees about CW's. :-\
As for Pac, we have already seen that he is unnatural and somehow able to carry the weight. The request for CW's is just not justified. Just fight them in their own weightclasses and be done with it. Otherwise there will always be detractors.
I happen to think Manny is a great too, so would much rather he just stay within the existing weight parameters and stop playing games at the scales.
It's not that he carries the weight mate, it's that he is so good he is able to beat people despite being smaller!
He didn't carry any extra weight against Margarito. He climbed over the ropes weighing 148lbs, which incidently is the same as he weighed when climbed over the ropes to face Juan Manuel Marquez.
He hasn't bulked up and added loads of weight. He's basically stayed the same size and just fought bigger and bigger men. He's won because of skill and speed, nothing to do with carrying extra weight better because he is hardly carry any extra weight.
He dominates them becuase he is brilliant.
So just fight them without catchweights. It isn't that much to ask.
He is an extraordinary fighter, but you really shouldn't be giving cynics easy ammunition. Right, I am hoping to see Amir Khan get knocked out, so I will talk later! ;D
But the guys he was fighting aren't the same size as him mate. When fighters are different sizes they have to compromise. Clearly Manny wanted to control the amount of weight he gave up. Even with the catchweight he gave up 17lbs to Margarito. That fight should have taken place at welterweight. Margarito was a career welterweight but Manny let him move UP to 150 lbs. He weighed in at just over 146 against Shane Mosley. It was the fourth highest weight he had weighed in his entire career. Weight drain was NOT an issue. I'm trying to stick to Hornfingers topic here, weight drain. Margarito wasn't weighed drained, in fact it was the opposite, he was allowed an extra 3 lbs compared to the rest of his career.
Manny is an awesome fighter.
And you were wrong about Amir too. How long have I been the only one saying he would go on to be a superstar and compete against the world's best. One step closer tonight. Just think a British fighter headlining a HBO card. Doesn't happen very often, hasn't happened for 24 year old since probably Naseem.
The boy done good.
Watch him dominate Maidana tonight ;D
Yep, good fight, but I think Khan has met his maker. Rematch!
You say that when fighters are different sizes they have to compromise. Why? If the fighters are a different size then they should be fighting in different weight classes. That is why they exist. If you want to fight at LMW then you should fight at LMW. You shouldn't be asking an opponent to come down to 150 pounds. If you want to fight at WW then fair enough, do so. But you shouldn't ask your opponent to come down to 145. Either you can handle fighters in that weight class or you can't. In Manny's case it seems that he can handle these fighters, so why not respect the sport and fit into the existing weight bands?
Whenever I see a catchweight fight I shall be critical as I don't think they are neccessary. It is just a tool being used by the powerful to try and command every advantage that they can muster. It simply detracts from a fight and raises questions.
Again, Margarito didn't come down to 150 lbs, he went up from 147 lbs. How long have you been watching boxing? What division does Margarito fight in? Now all of a sudden he's light middleweight starving himself to make 150 lbs when he has fought his entire career at 147. Come on, stop being silly :p
And again, Manny has already conquered his weight classes. Many of them. That got boring now he transcended that and wants to the fight the best in higher weight classes. He doesn't want to be outweighed by 20lbs on the night though which is why he has had two catchweight fights. It's interesting that in all the other catchweight fights we have had in recent years Williams Martinez, De La Hoya Oscar, Taylor Pavlik, Winky Hokins, Trinidad Jones Jr, Marquez Mayweather, the bigger man has defied the odds and actually won! Manny is the only man who was able to take advantage of the fact that his naturally bigger opponent was dead at the weigh in and was ready to be taken apart. It seems the other smaller fighters didn't realise this.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Margarito is a career WW, but he has fought at JMW in the past and since coming back has fought as a JMW. He had a long time out of the ring and the fact that he didn't come back as a WW would indicate that he has trouble making the weight. Dealing with making the weight was also difficult for the Mosley fight. The evidence points to a Margarito who is approaching his mid-30's as having grown into a JMW. Making him come in at 150 was to make him come as close to a weight that he has difficulty making as possible. 150 is closer to WW than JMW. It is not as though the catchweight demands from the Pac camp are anything new.
If CW's are not significant then why does Pac continually demand them? Because they obviously do make a difference. However, I really don't understand why Pac should need to do this as his skill set is always superior to his opponents. It's like having a race with a one legged man and saying you won't race unless he cuts the other leg off too. What's the point? You can beat him just fine with one leg.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Margarito is a career WW, but he has fought at JMW in the past and since coming back has fought as a JMW. He had a long time out of the ring and the fact that he didn't come back as a WW would indicate that he has trouble making the weight. Dealing with making the weight was also difficult for the Mosley fight. The evidence points to a Margarito who is approaching his mid-30's as having grown into a JMW. Making him come in at 150 was to make him come as close to a weight that he has difficulty making as possible. 150 is closer to WW than JMW. It is not as though the catchweight demands from the Pac camp are anything new.
If CW's are not significant then why does Pac continually demand them? Because they obviously do make a difference. However, I really don't understand why Pac should need to do this as his skill set is always superior to his opponents. It's like having a race with a one legged man and saying you won't race unless he cuts the other leg off too. What's the point? You can beat him just fine with one leg.
Is twice out of 57 fights continually demanding really?
The only catchweight fights were after he had already climbed 10 divisions and annihilated everybody.
After having the catchweight fight with Cotto he beat Clottey at the full weight limit. The catchweight against Cotto was because he was testing the water against a bigger man. He saw that he could cope, and thus against Clottey, no catchweight. Same outcome though, Clottey was dominated.
Manny won't be having any more catchweights at welterweight, he's comfortable in the division now.
The Margarito fight was totally fair. If you think Margarito was struggling to make 147 then you should be pleased that Manny allowed him to come in 3lbs heavier. He wasn't struggling to make 147 though anway. He moved up to the light middle division in the past to fight Daniel Santos. He lost and scurried back down again tail between his legs. Depending on what fights he can get it wouldnt surprise me if he went all the way back down to 147 again in future either.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Margarito is a career WW, but he has fought at JMW in the past and since coming back has fought as a JMW. He had a long time out of the ring and the fact that he didn't come back as a WW would indicate that he has trouble making the weight. Dealing with making the weight was also difficult for the Mosley fight. The evidence points to a Margarito who is approaching his mid-30's as having grown into a JMW. Making him come in at 150 was to make him come as close to a weight that he has difficulty making as possible. 150 is closer to WW than JMW. It is not as though the catchweight demands from the Pac camp are anything new.
If CW's are not significant then why does Pac continually demand them? Because they obviously do make a difference. However, I really don't understand why Pac should need to do this as his skill set is always superior to his opponents. It's like having a race with a one legged man and saying you won't race unless he cuts the other leg off too. What's the point? You can beat him just fine with one leg.
Is twice out of 57 fights continually demanding really?
The only catchweight fights were after he had already climbed 10 divisions and annihilated everybody.
After having the catchweight fight with Cotto he beat Clottey at the full weight limit. The catchweight against Cotto was because he was testing the water against a bigger man. He saw that he could cope, and thus against Clottey, no catchweight. Same outcome though, Clottey was dominated.
Manny won't be having any more catchweights at welterweight, he's comfortable in the division now.
The Margarito fight was totally fair. If you think Margarito was struggling to make 147 then you should be pleased that Manny allowed him to come in 3lbs heavier. He wasn't struggling to make 147 though anway. He moved up to the light middle division in the past to fight Daniel Santos. He lost and scurried back down again tail between his legs. Depending on what fights he can get it wouldnt surprise me if he went all the way back down to 147 again in future either.
Still, if Manny wanted to fight at WW or JMW then he should just make a fight for those weights. There is no good reason not to, unless it is to try and weaken your opponent and take them out of a weight class that they are accustomed to. And don't forget them saying they would only fight Mosley at 142. As if Mosley could ever make that weight. It's insane.
I too hope we don't see anymore CW's. Pac should settle at WW or move back down to JWW. What next Tim Bradley at 144 pounds? Just go down to JWW and be done with it. No more catchweights!
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Margarito is a career WW, but he has fought at JMW in the past and since coming back has fought as a JMW. He had a long time out of the ring and the fact that he didn't come back as a WW would indicate that he has trouble making the weight. Dealing with making the weight was also difficult for the Mosley fight. The evidence points to a Margarito who is approaching his mid-30's as having grown into a JMW. Making him come in at 150 was to make him come as close to a weight that he has difficulty making as possible. 150 is closer to WW than JMW. It is not as though the catchweight demands from the Pac camp are anything new.
If CW's are not significant then why does Pac continually demand them? Because they obviously do make a difference. However, I really don't understand why Pac should need to do this as his skill set is always superior to his opponents. It's like having a race with a one legged man and saying you won't race unless he cuts the other leg off too. What's the point? You can beat him just fine with one leg.
Is twice out of 57 fights continually demanding really?
The only catchweight fights were after he had already climbed 10 divisions and annihilated everybody.
After having the catchweight fight with Cotto he beat Clottey at the full weight limit. The catchweight against Cotto was because he was testing the water against a bigger man. He saw that he could cope, and thus against Clottey, no catchweight. Same outcome though, Clottey was dominated.
Manny won't be having any more catchweights at welterweight, he's comfortable in the division now.
The Margarito fight was totally fair. If you think Margarito was struggling to make 147 then you should be pleased that Manny allowed him to come in 3lbs heavier. He wasn't struggling to make 147 though anway. He moved up to the light middle division in the past to fight Daniel Santos. He lost and scurried back down again tail between his legs. Depending on what fights he can get it wouldnt surprise me if he went all the way back down to 147 again in future either.
Still, if Manny wanted to fight at WW or JMW then he should just make a fight for those weights. There is no good reason not to, unless it is to try and weaken your opponent and take them out of a weight class that they are accustomed to.
And don't forget them saying they would only fight Mosley at 142. As if Mosley could ever make that weight. It's insane.
I too hope we don't see anymore CW's. Pac should settle at WW or move back down to JWW. What next Tim Bradley at 144 pounds? Just go down to JWW and be done with it. No more catchweights!
You've been reading too many internet forums Miles! If Manny and Mosley fight it will be at full 147 no excuses. People make up most of their objections.
