Non-British perspective: Froch easier to like than was Calzaghe

You prefaced your intent on slapping at the end of his career. In other words, the end justifies the means. It's really at a point where I really have no reason to point it out. Objective intent I am sure lol.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Ali did NOT slap. Ali had little power in his punches, because of the way he threw them. He rarely put his whole body weight behind his punches, but rather threw them while leaning back or falling away. There's a huge difference between that and slapping. Ray Leonard, if you're including him in that group... was most definitely not a slapper. He could have his meaningless flurries, like a few he threw against Hagler. But he could punch with power, and had a few good KOs to his credit. Calzaghe was a slapper. For whatever the reason. Brittle hands, whatever. He slapped. The flurries looked downright U-G-L-Y. Turned me off immediately. Whatever the reason for Calzaghe to fight Manfredo, it was laughable. Should've never occurred at that stage of Calzaghe's career. Being a "Contender" star is a dubious entry in a fighter's resume.

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IamInuit, this is what I responded to you about a dozen posts ago when you claimed Ali was a "slapper". All you've done since then is answer me with "Yes he was." No counter-arguments... no explanations backing up your own points of view.... nothing. Between you repeating yourself, and Fanny going off on absurd tangents... you're accomplishing nothing but to convince me that neither of you knows how to drive home a point.

If this is what you call "insulting" and "hating", then so be it. I'm still waiting to hear any real logic from either of you two.

Did you watch the Doug Jones fight? How about Young? You want to lecture me on slapping? Ali stole more rounds in a career by doing so then anyone else in history.

You and Fanny continue to try my patience. Again... you're not backing up your statements. Ali threw a lot of punches off his back foot, without any leverage. They were punches... just not meant to create damage. He was a master boxer... he knew when to put his body behind his punches and when to punch defensively. Calzaghe, as can be clearly seen in slow-motion replays of his later fights... threw punches awkwardly, not just landing with the wrong part of the glove... but his whole arm motion looks funny. Maybe he was protecting his brittle hands. But it still makes for ugly looking professional boxing.

Empirical.

observation
experience
repeatability

Nonsense
Rubbish

Good night.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I don't see how Calzaghe wasn't fan friendly. He sold out stadiums and finished out his career throwing a 1000 punches a round on HBO. How more exciting can a fighter be?

If we are talking fan friendly, Calzaghe is no Bernard Hopkins.

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Miles... he sold out stadiums. No doubt about that. Any British fighter with an undefeated record, not a very common occurence for any fighter nowadays, will do that. And hand it to the British... they certainly know how to back their fighters.

But I'd rather see someone throw 100 real punches in a round, than someone throwing 1000 slaps. It's that simple. Workrate is one thing... effective punching is another. And no... Calzaghe is no Bernard Hopkins. I wouldn't exactly call Bernard fan friendly either... but for even more reasons. Not only was Bernard's mauling and grappling style painful to watch... but Hopkins himself didn't care what the fans thought or didn't think of him. Calzaghe was probably a pretty good bloke... but the "flurries" that brought the fans out of their seats were sometimes hilarious. Few real punches thrown with bad intentions. Let's just say slow-motion replays were not Calzaghe's best friends.

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You really seem to have a personal dislike of Calzaghe and his style.

I maintain that he was fan friendly. He threw punches in bunches and a lot of them. People like fighters that throw combinations and Calzaghe was popular because of it. Hopkins was not fan friendly. Ward is not fan friendly. But Calzaghe was. Like Paul Williams he would unleash a lot of punches and not stop. What isn't fun to watch about that? Sure in doing so he could be a little sloppy, but so what? Is that anything to really get upset about and argue for 13 pages?

Calzaghe was a quality fighter with a decent resume. Yes, there are holes but as has been pointed out Hopkins wasn't any better prior to going up and calling out smaller men as was his thing before. Calzaghe could have called out LMW's but what would that really mean. Just a man beating on smaller men. Winky Wright at LHW for instance? Nuts. Ooh but it's a name! :rolleyes:

The trouble with this post most of us are going over old ground, me included not mater what any one's say's Joe Calzaghe was a hell of a good fighter.
No mater what's been said and done Calzaghe will be in the Hall Of Fame, and he has his place in boxing history. When Calzaghe name is in any post it like a red rag to a bull, he's a slapper he did not fight so and so he beat them a but not in there prime. I think with some people it's a love hate thing with fighters
this includes myself. You no I don't like Hopkins but I give the old git credit, he's one hell of a fighter it's what you like. Remember all pro fighters are brave you need to be to get in that ring,weather you are a journey man contender or Champion.
No mater what all theses guys are warriors they truly are.:)

@TitoFan

Who's Fanny? I hope you're not refering to The Fenster.

So this time i've upset you by merely asking you to explain the difference between Hopkins and Calzaghe's career title runs - after you claimed Hopkins' was superior. That's all I asked. Yet somehow this has sent you into a deranged, foul-mouthed frenzy mentioning The Fenster in every other post.

So lets put this to bed from my end (for the 50th time).

1. TitoFan has seen two Calzaghe fights. TitoFan didn't like his punching technique. TitoFan also don't like that Calzaghe fought Manfredo. NEVER once in the entire thread have I questioned this. It's just your personal opinion. I'm only interested in debating facts and figures.

2. If you look back over the thread you'll see that I was arguing with Althguz on an entirely different matter. When you entered the debate, you didn't challenge any points that I made, you quoted one of my posts and then proceeded to launch a tirade of insults at me (it's post no.71). A theme you have continued with for the remainder of the thread.

I still have no idea what I did to upset you so much.

Once you've reviewed the situation I will gracefully accept your apology. Fact.

Cue another seven pages! ;D

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Cue another seven pages! ;D

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Miles you got it wrong ten pages .:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

@TitoFan

Who's Fanny? I hope you're not refering to The Fenster.

So this time i've upset you by merely asking you to explain the difference between Hopkins and Calzaghe's career title runs - after you claimed Hopkins' was superior. That's all I asked. Yet somehow this has sent you into a deranged, foul-mouthed frenzy mentioning The Fenster in every other post.

So lets put this to bed from my end (for the 50th time).

1. TitoFan has seen two Calzaghe fights. TitoFan didn't like his punching technique. TitoFan also don't like that Calzaghe fought Manfredo. NEVER once in the entire thread have I questioned this. It's just your personal opinion. I'm only interested in debating facts and figures.

2. If you look back over the thread you'll see that I was arguing with Althguz on an entirely different matter. When you entered the debate, you didn't challenge any points that I made, you quoted one of my posts and then proceeded to launch a tirade of insults at me (it's post no.71). A theme you have continued with for the remainder of the thread.

I still have no idea what I did to upset you so much.

Once you've reviewed the situation I will respectfully submit my apology. Fact.

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(I fixed your typo.)

Ahem..... I accept. Am I'm impressed you went to so much trouble to count numbers of posts and pages. Dare I say.... I'm even a bit flattered. Seems we're reaching a conclusion to this long, but spirited thread.


;D

BTW, not to fan the flames any longer... but it's always been my opinion that undefeated records cannot be looked at in a vacuum. That there are plenty of fighters who have been defeated at some time in their careers whose resumes far outshine those of other fighters who are undefeated. But don't just take my word for it. Others also feel that way.


Undefeated Records in Boxing: Impressive or Overrated?



Be that as it may, I do not begrudge Calzaghe's record in any way, shape, or form. All this time I've been merely stating a personal opinion, which is that... for my money... I did not enjoy Calzaghe's style of fighting. It was brought up that "early Calzaghe" was a knockout artist. I would appreciate seeing footage of any of those fights, so I could say I've seen an enjoyable Calzaghe fight. Through no fault of his own, he somehow developed brittle hands. That he adapted to that and continued winning, is very admirable. I've said this before, also. I've seen him interviewed, and he comes across as a likable fellow... so no qualms there. He even provided a very comical highlight, which still makes me laugh to this day... his bizarre humping of Hopkins in their fight. I've never liked Hopkins' style either... so aside from this circus sideshow, this fight was on par with Chinese torture for me. And of course, I've lambasted the guy for including Peter Manfredo among his later victims. And it was the manner in which the fight was stopped which only added insult to injury.

So to sum up... I'm not the "frothing-at-the-mouth" anti-Calzaghe lunatic all JC fans are making me out to be. I'm more than happy giving the man his due props. But if can't state my honest opinions without creating a national state of emergency... then we're not all being very objective here.

Nothing really left to be said is there? It's all pretty much spelled out.

Calzaghe had the best punch technique I've ever seen, and Froch hasn't fought nearly the caliber of opponents that he did. What do you guys think? I'm really interested.