Duran : In My Era, Mayweather Would Have Been Ordinary

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

For all his finesse and ability Floyd has not fought the one guy from this era who has some similarities to Duran. Hell, he even looks like him a little with his beard and all. Manny will be remembered as being anything but ordinary. Roberto is doing FMJ a disservice by calling him ordinary but Floyd has only himself to blame for history maybe not looking as kindly on his legacy as he would wish. Pacquiao fought Cotto 3 years before Floyd was willing to, he looked way more impressive against Hatton and Oscar, he fought Margarito, he was willing to fight people like Morales and Barrera earlier in his career, even though they were very dangerous and he had to rematch Morales twice to avenge his first defeat and prove it was no fluke. So yes there are boxers today who are not so obsessed with keeping their 0 that they take an obsessively safety first route their whole career.

Nobody is calling Floyd a bum, he is certainly an ATG but he is a long way from being as great as he thinks he is, and that is primarily his fault.

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Good to see this thread ending on pac.

After all the opinions it turns out that floyd never fought a duran of this era which is manny pac.

Manny will never be ordinary and he fought every single top tier fighter at the right time and never ducked anyone.

Manny and duran are flawless and are the true atg.

The fact that floyd/manny never fought must be only floyds fault and floyds whole career has be based on this one fighter.

Great stuff.

Ps:- Every single boxer on earth wants to keep there 0..wouldnt you?

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

For all his finesse and ability Floyd has not fought the one guy from this era who has some similarities to Duran. Hell, he even looks like him a little with his beard and all. Manny will be remembered as being anything but ordinary. Roberto is doing FMJ a disservice by calling him ordinary but Floyd has only himself to blame for history maybe not looking as kindly on his legacy as he would wish. Pacquiao fought Cotto 3 years before Floyd was willing to, he looked way more impressive against Hatton and Oscar, he fought Margarito, he was willing to fight people like Morales and Barrera earlier in his career, even though they were very dangerous and he had to rematch Morales twice to avenge his first defeat and prove it was no fluke. So yes there are boxers today who are not so obsessed with keeping their 0 that they take an obsessively safety first route their whole career.

Nobody is calling Floyd a bum, he is certainly an ATG but he is a long way from being as great as he thinks he is, and that is primarily his fault.

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I don't see how it's any more his fault than Pacquiaos, does anyone honestly not find it ridiculous that Manny was afraid of needles to this day? I don't care what may have happened in negotiations after that, Pacquiao stuck to that bullshit for quite a while and never gave himself a reasonable out there.

The only difference in Pacquiaos career path is that he was more evenly matched with his peers, if you ask me. Morales and Marquez etc were such hard fights because Pacquiao isn't actually any better than they were, not because he was taking on bigger tests than Floyd. You think Manny wouldn't have rather had Floyds prospects? Cmon;D

There will always be reasons for and against in the common opponents that floyd and manny have faced.

Pro Floyd reason:-

1. Beat oscar at his weight earlier than manny.
2. Beat a prime, UNDEFEATED ricky hatton.
3. Beat a young, prime victor ortiz
4. Beat moseley after margarito when no one wanted to fight him
5. Beat cotto at his weight.

Pro pacman reason:-

1. Beat oscar after stepping up to 147.
2. Beat hatton at his weight
3. Beat mosely.
4. Beat an avoided margarito.
5. Beat a tough cotto.

Conclusion:-

Both floyd and manny beat all the above at different weights at different times but they did beat them.

Apart from ortiz and margarito not being a common opponent between them the only guy i didnt mention was marquez.

If we were going to just talk about opponents and how they handled each one differently marquez is the one that stands out as the guy to draw with manny one, loose twice in fights that could have went either way, and in the last fight that old marquez was loosing KO manny in the worst way possible thus ending the chapter.

Then theres the floyd vs marquez fight...even marquez himself as a true mexican atg hall of famer has said numerous times theres no point in a rematch with floyd and that floyd beats manny everytime.

Surely that must sum it all up once and for all.

Both floyd and manny have to be respected for both their achievements..but i think we all know who edged it in every way.

Floyd doesnt duck fighters. He just doesnt like top rank..isnt that obvious?

Close your eyes for a minute and pretend that the guys floyd ducked were on golden boy and not on top rank...do you still think those fights wouldnt have happened?

Who are all these extraordinary fighters that this ordinary fighter Floyd ducked and post a little proof while you are at it? Simply saying names over and and over again ad nauseam is not in and of itself factual proof. Its an accusation and all of them especially Manny are starting to actually invoke the gag reflex.

I made a list a few years back, lemme see if I can find it....

---------------circa 2008------------------------
“The mayweather Avoidance List”

mayweather was very good at super-featherweight 130 lbs, but he left the division in 2001. Since 2001 at 130 lbs, for the past 6 years, mayweather has NOT fought the top guy in any of these weight classes he’s jumped to.

In 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, mayweather was champ at 130lbs.
IN ROUGHLY SAME TIME PERIOD 4 lbs less at 126 lbs was:
1. Prince Naseem Hamed
2. Marco Antonio Barrera
3. Erik Morales
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Manny Pacquiao

In 2002, mayweather went up 5 lbs to lightweight 135 lbs and LOST to Castillo, but Castillo was robbed in the decision.
At 130 or 135:
6. Joel Casamayor
7. Juan Lazcano
8. Acelino Freitas
9. Paul Spadafora

At 140:
10. Kostya Tszyu
11. Ricky Hatton
12. Oktay Urkal
13. Vivian Harris
14. Miguel Cotto

At 147:
15. Paul Williams
16. Shane Mosely
17. Antonio Margarito
18. Joshua Clottey
19. Kermit Cintron

With 19 good fighters to pick from over the past 6 years, why has the self-proclaimed p4p greatest-of-all-time been fighting:
jesus chavez
carlos hernandez
sosa
n’dou
demarcus corley
bruseles
baldomir
a no-class, undisciplined judah
a washed-up Gatti
a washed-up Mitchell
a faded part-time fighter like De La Hoya

Why has mayweather avoided 19 top men in his climb through the divisions?
mayweather has 1 Hall-of-Famer on his entire resume: De la Hoya…and I think De La Hoya won that fight on effective aggression. Split-decision, my rosy red rectum.

mayweather has talent and was very good at 130 lbs. Since leaving 130 lbs, it’s just been a lot of garbage for the past 6 years, a lot of ducking the top opposition, all along proclaiming himself the best p4p of all time. Fantasy world.

I hate seeing a beautiful high-performance engine being put up on the blocks to rust, or being driven in an old granny style Sunday drive. Take that baby out and open her up, see what she can do.
Don’t you think if lil floyd had fought at least a few of these 19 outstanding men above instead of 2nd and 3rd tier opposition, it would add to his legacy just a bit. You have a deep knowledge and passion for the sport, Tam-Tam; let’s hear you tackle it. What’s the explanation?
Remember: “Boxing without Bull$#!t.” Hagler fought the best opposition available to him. Mike McCallum is the sole guy I can think of that Hagler didn’t fight.
Hagler certainly didn’t have a list of 19 elite fighters that he avoided, Hagler welcomed the challenge to prove himself against the very best.

The linear 147 lb champion has NOT fought a single top-tier welterweight yet.
C’mon, fight a legitimate top welterweight contender, at least one.
Make some believers out of us.
_________________________________________________

You made a list. That's it. You offered no proof. I could make the same kind of list for anyone including the holy grails and not to offend but the list is laughable and must have been passed as some kind of truth when this site was full of impressionable teenagers. Its like going to a phone booth and randomly picking names according to the alphabet and then claiming they are ones friends. Based on the pretzel logic displayed its pretty clear that everybody is ducking everybody all the time.

If I have to edit this post again ...

I know that several men on that list are future 1st ballot Hall-of-Famers that fought each other when they were at their best in their primes, and multiple rematches at that, such as Pacquaio, Barrera, Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez.

For Floyd's elite Hall-of-Fame-worthy opponents in their primes, it goes:
Corrales 2001.
Hatton 2007.
Marquez 2009 (*called up 2 weight classes though, and Floyd came in overweight)
Guerrero 2013.

Recent developments are very good that Floyd has decided to fight top opponents again.
The dude can shine like gold when he fights top prime opponents, but unfortunately he spent much of the past 9 years fighting 2nd tier fighters or guys that were called up in weight or beginning the downslide.
Floyd's style is very good for longevity. Well- schooled technician. Even when the reflexes slow down a bit, a good skillful technician can still outbox younger dudes.

Asked and answered about 20 times since I have been a member here and by several members. Same bullshit list only smaller.

Back to the topic. Floyd's about as ordinary as Roberto was.

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

For all his finesse and ability Floyd has not fought the one guy from this era who has some similarities to Duran. Hell, he even looks like him a little with his beard and all. Manny will be remembered as being anything but ordinary. Roberto is doing FMJ a disservice by calling him ordinary but Floyd has only himself to blame for history maybe not looking as kindly on his legacy as he would wish. Pacquiao fought Cotto 3 years before Floyd was willing to, he looked way more impressive against Hatton and Oscar, he fought Margarito, he was willing to fight people like Morales and Barrera earlier in his career, even though they were very dangerous and he had to rematch Morales twice to avenge his first defeat and prove it was no fluke. So yes there are boxers today who are not so obsessed with keeping their 0 that they take an obsessively safety first route their whole career.

Nobody is calling Floyd a bum, he is certainly an ATG but he is a long way from being as great as he thinks he is, and that is primarily his fault.

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Good to see this thread ending on pac.

After all the opinions it turns out that floyd never fought a duran of this era which is manny pac.

Manny will never be ordinary and he fought every single top tier fighter at the right time and never ducked anyone.

Manny and duran are flawless and are the true atg.

The fact that floyd/manny never fought must be only floyds fault and floyds whole career has be based on this one fighter.

Great stuff.

Ps:- Every single boxer on earth wants to keep there 0..wouldnt you?

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Nobody said Manny and Duran were flawless. I certainly did not. This is the crux of the problem. Boxing fans in general can see the greatness in Floyd but some mistake this as an impeachable flawlessness. Most boxers are not blessed with so much ability and yet are eager to test and expand themselves. Floyd has long periods of inactivity inside and outside the ropes and yet wants to be seen as THE greatest ? Do I think Manny is better than Floyd? No. Do I think Duran is a better boxer? No. Was Duran a better fighter? Yes, he was willing to fail and did not have the luxury of few contemporaries to challenge him. Floyd's master class in defence against a way past his prime Mosely was great, but for every fight? Cotto was neutered by age, Hatton by weight and some terrible refereeing. That is not hating Floyd that's being a realist, something a lot of Floyd fans think is blasphemy.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

For all his finesse and ability Floyd has not fought the one guy from this era who has some similarities to Duran. Hell, he even looks like him a little with his beard and all. Manny will be remembered as being anything but ordinary. Roberto is doing FMJ a disservice by calling him ordinary but Floyd has only himself to blame for history maybe not looking as kindly on his legacy as he would wish. Pacquiao fought Cotto 3 years before Floyd was willing to, he looked way more impressive against Hatton and Oscar, he fought Margarito, he was willing to fight people like Morales and Barrera earlier in his career, even though they were very dangerous and he had to rematch Morales twice to avenge his first defeat and prove it was no fluke. So yes there are boxers today who are not so obsessed with keeping their 0 that they take an obsessively safety first route their whole career.

Nobody is calling Floyd a bum, he is certainly an ATG but he is a long way from being as great as he thinks he is, and that is primarily his fault.

---

Good to see this thread ending on pac.

After all the opinions it turns out that floyd never fought a duran of this era which is manny pac.

Manny will never be ordinary and he fought every single top tier fighter at the right time and never ducked anyone.

Manny and duran are flawless and are the true atg.

The fact that floyd/manny never fought must be only floyds fault and floyds whole career has be based on this one fighter.

Great stuff.

Ps:- Every single boxer on earth wants to keep there 0..wouldnt you?

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Nobody said Manny and Duran were flawless. I certainly did not. This is the crux of the problem. Boxing fans in general can see the greatness in Floyd but some mistake this as an impeachable flawlessness. Most boxers are not blessed with so much ability and yet are eager to test and expand themselves. Floyd has long periods of inactivity inside and outside the ropes and yet wants to be seen as THE greatest ? Do I think Manny is better than Floyd? No. Do I think Duran is a better boxer? No. Was Duran a better fighter? Yes, he was willing to fail and did not have the luxury of few contemporaries to challenge him. Floyd's master class in defence against a way past his prime Mosely was great, but for every fight? Cotto was neutered by age, Hatton by weight and some terrible refereeing. That is not hating Floyd that's being a realist, something a lot of Floyd fans think is blasphemy.

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No one is taking offence in anything you say about floyd. I dont know floyd. He doesnt pay my wages. Say what you want about him. I acknowledge all his flaws but it doesnt mean we still cant have a debate.

All im saying is that everything bad that is said about floyd can be countered. Just like someone might have the same type of reasoning why duran is not a quitter or manny handpicked opponents at catchweights or is scared of needles.

Theres load od excuses to choose from.

You mentioned duran was a better fighter.

I agree.

Manny is a better fighter than floyd.

But guess what, the better boxer always beats a better fighter as is shown in floyds record.

Duran and manny were beaten by better boxers..floyd has beaten all better fighters and boxers.

Explain that one.

The same criticism floyd gets is the same every boxer gets but he is still unbeaten.

Stop being so emotional about this shit imp.....I just want to see them fight each other. I mean for fucks sake, take some midol. Personally I am more than a bit suspicious of Manny and JMM as a lot of people are, the way they've jumped divisions raises some red flags to me. However they've never been caught so it's just suspicion on my part.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Stop being so emotional about this shit imp.....I just want to see them fight each other. I mean for fucks sake, take some midol. Personally I am more than a bit suspicious of Manny and JMM as a lot of people are, the way they've jumped divisions raises some red flags to me. However they've never been caught so it's just suspicion on my part.

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Lol.

You get so touchy.

You know a short temper is the first sign of weakness.

We all wanted to see floyd vs manny but it just wont happen now.

That bus went along time ago.

Mannys head and marquez muscles might have increased in size but like you said they have never been caught on anything.

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Stop being so emotional about this shit imp.....I just want to see them fight each other. I mean for fucks sake, take some midol. Personally I am more than a bit suspicious of Manny and JMM as a lot of people are, the way they've jumped divisions raises some red flags to me. However they've never been caught so it's just suspicion on my part.

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Lol.

You get so touchy.

You know a short temper is the first sign of weakness.

We all wanted to see floyd vs manny but it just wont happen now.

That bus went along time ago.

Mannys head and marquez muscles might have increased in size but like you said they have never been caught on anything.

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I'm not touchy, you're out there in tears about someone questioning Floyd AT ALL...just take it easy.

As I said before, timing is difficult in boxing...I bet the fight happens, but it happens well after everyone had wanted it. Tyson-Holyfield, Tyson-Lewis, Leonard-Hagler, Leonard-Hearns II....so many big fights like that

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Stop being so emotional about this shit imp.....I just want to see them fight each other. I mean for fucks sake, take some midol. Personally I am more than a bit suspicious of Manny and JMM as a lot of people are, the way they've jumped divisions raises some red flags to me. However they've never been caught so it's just suspicion on my part.

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Lol.

You get so touchy.

You know a short temper is the first sign of weakness.

We all wanted to see floyd vs manny but it just wont happen now.

That bus went along time ago.

Mannys head and marquez muscles might have increased in size but like you said they have never been caught on anything.

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I'm not touchy, you're out there in tears about someone questioning Floyd AT ALL...just take it easy.

As I said before, timing is difficult in boxing...I bet the fight happens, but it happens well after everyone had wanted it. Tyson-Holyfield, Tyson-Lewis, Leonard-Hagler, Leonard-Hearns II....so many big fights like that

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Waaaaaa, I'm a bitter whiteboy who's family will never see a fraction of the wealth Floyd Mayweather makes in a single night, waaaaaaaa, Floyd has no losses and my favorite fighter has been ass raped on multiple occasions and that's why everyone ranks him as an all time joke, waaaaaa, I have 40,000 posts on a message board because I have no life.

;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D

Oh, you're back.....you know they only ban you because you're black right ;)