The Brexit Thread

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Been watching a bit of this on the news lately, and just wanted to ask the following of you Brits:

Would a 2nd referendum really be so bad? I know it's not the norm, and probably those who voted for Brexit would probably raise holy hell about their initial votes not being respected but.....

There seems to be some real controversy here over the whole deal. In fact, I seem to remember some Brits being interviewed shortly after the 1st results came out and frankly some of them seemed surprised at what Brexit really entailed.

It also seems a lot of young Brits, who are just now coming into voting age, reject the whole Brexit idea.

The idea of a 2nd referendum might smack of "we didn't do it right the first time" but.... is it really so bad when so much is at stake?

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I would be quite happy with a second referendum. There was an almighty amount of deception, flat out lies,illegal money and disinformation from foreign agents that presented a false picture. Even the most vehement of Brexiteers were very happy at first to suggest a second vote on the terms of the deal. They now are again pretending otherwise. I mean look at the example here even on this forum, this thread which I started, was absolutely dominated by those outside of the UK who will not even be affected by the vote. I would rather we didn't leave and reshaped the EU from within but the British people have decided to leave so fuck it, let them reap the dividends but don't pretend that the half of us that voted remain do not exist. The leave deal should not be dictated by cunts like Farage who could not even win enough votes to get elected to Parliament, ex-pat scum like PJW and Milo, ego mainacs like Trump and Putin who just want to weaken the UK and flood us with shite produce and Russian propaganda. The insanity of ignoring the freedoms of being able to trade freely in an established market with thousands of years of shared history in workers and produce with countries a few hundred miles away in favour of those thousands of miles and an airplane away (or worse cargo boat), with no established protocols is beyond a joke. Even immigration the one issue so many Brexit voters want to control will go thru the roof with far more dangerous people coming in than now.

You know Beanz that we have been trading with Europe before the EU ever came together.

You also know that we would not get a good deal in EU. Maggie got a big rebate in the 1980's but Cameron came back with a hardly any concessions at all.

EU was getting too big for their boots.

Many other countries would leave if they had a fair vote.


BTW I hate being on the side of Mogg and Farage but I am sure you do to with being on the side of May, Osborne and Cameron

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Originally Posted by Master

A second referendum or people vote would be bad.

The people voted and it was up to the government to deliver which they have failed to do miserably.

It was a surprise that Brexit won because nearly everything was in the remainers favour with business, prime minister, chancellor, leaflets, business etc all supporting remain.

Nothing will be gained with a second referendum other than give remainers another chance. There is no guarantee that the remainers will win because the EU have acted like cunts in this.

There are so many shades of Brexit that you will not get a consensus.

Real major screw up the whole thing.

If we leave on a no deal, so be it. I disagree with Labour not working with May by insisting taking no deal off the table.

wankers the lot of them.

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The people voted, yes... but as Beanz said there seemed to be a lot of misinformation leading up to the vote. I just remember seeing interviews with Joe Blow and Jane Doe on the street following the results and some of them seemed bewildered about the ramifications, and some went as far as to say they would've voted against Brexit if they had known what it really meant. Doesn't sound like a lot of the population had all the facts in front of them. Under those circumstances, isn't at least the consideration of a 2nd referendum justified?

I can certainly sympathize with you guys, as we've had our share of referendums over here as well. In our case, and the one that mostly resembles yours, it's been the referendums on status, with choices of wanting statehood, preferring the status quo, or choosing independence. I can say from experience we've managed to f*ck up some of those referendums as well, and I blame the people in power who are supposed to make sure people are well informed before going off on some agenda-laden, half-cocked referendum.

Speaking as an outsider, it would seem the drawbacks would outweigh the benefits of leaving the EU, even if as you say the EU have been pricks about the whole thing. I'd venture to say if the rest of the EU was "referendum-ed" about Brexit, they'd likely vote against it. Again, it's always the politicians that manage to muck everything up. I guess that's why they get paid the big bucks. :-X

Beyond bored with the whole thing.

Have a second referendum or just decide to fucking stay in eu and let's be done with the whole fucking thing.

No one knows the true cost and implications of what's going to happen if we leave under whatever conditions. Into the void.

Whole thing is an embarrassment

A referendum happened because the politicians could not decide and was ripping the government apart.

Sure people did not know what the Bexit deal was going to look like as it was impossible to say. So it was a simple in or out on the ballet box.

Every side can hope and guess what it would look like but the remain campaign were the favourites.

You cannot have another referendum because then EU know that if they play hard ball every country will ask for a second referendum. That is wrong.

Lets have a no deal bexit.

This deal we give £39 billion and get even less than before.

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Originally Posted by Master

A referendum happened because the politicians could not decide and was ripping the government apart.

Sure people did not know what the Bexit deal was going to look like as it was impossible to say. So it was a simple in or out on the ballet box.

Every side can hope and guess what it would look like but the remain campaign were the favourites.

You cannot have another referendum because then EU know that if they play hard ball every country will ask for a second referendum. That is wrong.

Lets have a no deal bexit.

This deal we give £39 billion and get even less than before.

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Obviously your opinion about Brexit is going to carry more weight, seeing as to how you actually live there.

But do you really think the EU would view a 2nd referendum that way? I think the EU loses in general when the UK leaves, and most Europeans would probably see it that way. Many would welcome a 2nd referendum.

The one issue I've always seen as a major factor in the whole Brexit thing is immigration.... maybe I'm wrong.

And it has been used by pro-Brexit constituents as a "fear factor", if you will, to convince the general public the UK would be safer withdrawing from the EU.

As I follow brexit from afar it’s interesting to see how the indecision in Britain effects our stock market. I was also surprised to hear master say the corporate tax rate in England is 17% I think he said that, ours was 26-28% before trump

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

A referendum happened because the politicians could not decide and was ripping the government apart.

Sure people did not know what the Bexit deal was going to look like as it was impossible to say. So it was a simple in or out on the ballet box.

Every side can hope and guess what it would look like but the remain campaign were the favourites.

You cannot have another referendum because then EU know that if they play hard ball every country will ask for a second referendum. That is wrong.

Lets have a no deal bexit.

This deal we give £39 billion and get even less than before.

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Obviously your opinion about Brexit is going to carry more weight, seeing as to how you actually live there.

But do you really think the EU would view a 2nd referendum that way? I think the EU loses in general when the UK leaves, and most Europeans would probably see it that way. Many would welcome a 2nd referendum.

The one issue I've always seen as a major factor in the whole Brexit thing is immigration.... maybe I'm wrong.

And it has been used by pro-Brexit constituents as a "fear factor", if you will, to convince the general public the UK would be safer withdrawing from the EU.

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I know the EU would love for us to have a second referendum what i meant was that any nation that voted to leave would get a hard Brexit because EU would hope the electorate have another referendum hoping that they will stay the second time. That is underhand and wrong.

The people have voted and the politicians should deliver the mandate.

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Originally Posted by walrus

As I follow brexit from afar it’s interesting to see how the indecision in Britain effects our stock market. I was also surprised to hear master say the corporate tax rate in England is 17% I think he said that, ours was 26-28% before trump

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It is 19% and should be higher, this Government are taxing the poor for the fat cats.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by walrus

As I follow brexit from afar it’s interesting to see how the indecision in Britain effects our stock market. I was also surprised to hear master say the corporate tax rate in England is 17% I think he said that, ours was 26-28% before trump

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It is 19% and should be higher, this Government are taxing the poor for the fat cats.

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We master I understand that argument but high corporation taxes encourage companies to set up shop in China where intellectual property is stolen. Corporations and private business are the ones who are supposed to employ people. It’s tough though, I see both sides of the equation. Our corporate tax was around 28 or 27 percent recently. If you can go to Vietnam and pay a quarter of that, why not. People in the US flee to states with lower taxes, what’s the difference. One time the government was going after Microsoft for anti trust and taxes. Bill Gates started shopping around to different countries. All of the sudden the government quieted down. Let me as you, do these massive corporations provide any other benefits to your country than taxes, which they are great at avoiding. If they left, I bet the impact would be much greater than losing that 17% rate. I’ll stop bitching about people not paying taxes once I find a way to stop bitching about paying taxes

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by walrus

As I follow brexit from afar it’s interesting to see how the indecision in Britain effects our stock market. I was also surprised to hear master say the corporate tax rate in England is 17% I think he said that, ours was 26-28% before trump

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It is 19% and should be higher, this Government are taxing the poor for the fat cats.

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We master I understand that argument but high corporation taxes encourage companies to set up shop in China where intellectual property is stolen. Corporations and private business are the ones who are supposed to employ people. It’s tough though, I see both sides of the equation. Our corporate tax was around 28 or 27 percent recently. If you can go to Vietnam and pay a quarter of that, why not. People in the US flee to states with lower taxes, what’s the difference. One time the government was going after Microsoft for anti trust and taxes. Bill Gates started shopping around to different countries. All of the sudden the government quieted down. Let me as you, do these massive corporations provide any other benefits to your country than taxes, which they are great at avoiding. If they left, I bet the impact would be much greater than losing that 17% rate. I’ll stop bitching about people not paying taxes once I find a way to stop bitching about paying taxes

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The big corporations need the British consumers and to get to them they should have to pay their fair share of tax which they are not.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by walrus

As I follow brexit from afar it’s interesting to see how the indecision in Britain effects our stock market. I was also surprised to hear master say the corporate tax rate in England is 17% I think he said that, ours was 26-28% before trump

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It is 19% and should be higher, this Government are taxing the poor for the fat cats.

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We master I understand that argument but high corporation taxes encourage companies to set up shop in China where intellectual property is stolen. Corporations and private business are the ones who are supposed to employ people. It’s tough though, I see both sides of the equation. Our corporate tax was around 28 or 27 percent recently. If you can go to Vietnam and pay a quarter of that, why not. People in the US flee to states with lower taxes, what’s the difference. One time the government was going after Microsoft for anti trust and taxes. Bill Gates started shopping around to different countries. All of the sudden the government quieted down. Let me as you, do these massive corporations provide any other benefits to your country than taxes, which they are great at avoiding. If they left, I bet the impact would be much greater than losing that 17% rate. I’ll stop bitching about people not paying taxes once I find a way to stop bitching about paying taxes

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The big corporations need the British consumers and to get to them they should have to pay their fair share of tax which they are not.

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Exactly, those corporations are allowed access to a market that gives them the profits they have. If Facebook does not want to pay its taxes, then outlaw Facebook. Encourage alternatives that do co-operate and respect your society. In my opinion VAT should be minimal as it affects the poorest the most and tax systems should be progressive. The bigger the firm the more it should pay in tax as it obviously benefits the most from the market it is allowed access to. The opposite is what actually happens thus the poor pay a lot more tax proportionally than the rich do and that makes no sense from a moral or logical standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by walrus

As I follow brexit from afar it’s interesting to see how the indecision in Britain effects our stock market. I was also surprised to hear master say the corporate tax rate in England is 17% I think he said that, ours was 26-28% before trump

---

It is 19% and should be higher, this Government are taxing the poor for the fat cats.

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We master I understand that argument but high corporation taxes encourage companies to set up shop in China where intellectual property is stolen. Corporations and private business are the ones who are supposed to employ people. It’s tough though, I see both sides of the equation. Our corporate tax was around 28 or 27 percent recently. If you can go to Vietnam and pay a quarter of that, why not. People in the US flee to states with lower taxes, what’s the difference. One time the government was going after Microsoft for anti trust and taxes. Bill Gates started shopping around to different countries. All of the sudden the government quieted down. Let me as you, do these massive corporations provide any other benefits to your country than taxes, which they are great at avoiding. If they left, I bet the impact would be much greater than losing that 17% rate. I’ll stop bitching about people not paying taxes once I find a way to stop bitching about paying taxes

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The big corporations need the British consumers and to get to them they should have to pay their fair share of tax which they are not.

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Exactly, those corporations are allowed access to a market that gives them the profits they have. If Facebook does not want to pay its taxes, then outlaw Facebook. Encourage alternatives that do co-operate and respect your society. In my opinion VAT should be minimal as it affects the poorest the most and tax systems should be progressive. The bigger the firm the more it should pay in tax as it obviously benefits the most from the market it is allowed access to. The opposite is what actually happens thus the poor pay a lot more tax proportionally than the rich do and that makes no sense from a moral or logical standpoint.

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Which is the whole point of the thread and you should boycott Amazon.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by walrus

As I follow brexit from afar it’s interesting to see how the indecision in Britain effects our stock market. I was also surprised to hear master say the corporate tax rate in England is 17% I think he said that, ours was 26-28% before trump

---

It is 19% and should be higher, this Government are taxing the poor for the fat cats.

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We master I understand that argument but high corporation taxes encourage companies to set up shop in China where intellectual property is stolen. Corporations and private business are the ones who are supposed to employ people. It’s tough though, I see both sides of the equation. Our corporate tax was around 28 or 27 percent recently. If you can go to Vietnam and pay a quarter of that, why not. People in the US flee to states with lower taxes, what’s the difference. One time the government was going after Microsoft for anti trust and taxes. Bill Gates started shopping around to different countries. All of the sudden the government quieted down. Let me as you, do these massive corporations provide any other benefits to your country than taxes, which they are great at avoiding. If they left, I bet the impact would be much greater than losing that 17% rate. I’ll stop bitching about people not paying taxes once I find a way to stop bitching about paying taxes

---

The big corporations need the British consumers and to get to them they should have to pay their fair share of tax which they are not.

---

Exactly, those corporations are allowed access to a market that gives them the profits they have. If Facebook does not want to pay its taxes, then outlaw Facebook. Encourage alternatives that do co-operate and respect your society. In my opinion VAT should be minimal as it affects the poorest the most and tax systems should be progressive. The bigger the firm the more it should pay in tax as it obviously benefits the most from the market it is allowed access to. The opposite is what actually happens thus the poor pay a lot more tax proportionally than the rich do and that makes no sense from a moral or logical standpoint.

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Which is the whole point of the thread and you should boycott Amazon.

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If there was an alternative that paid their taxes properly I would take it. Otherwise I remain without books and I am a man of books.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhtYYjV6ITs


Please trust me when i tell you. It's going to get worse.