Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
On the face of it, Joshua must accept the offer, in principle at least. You could argue that he already has with his lets roll comment, how formal does it need to be? I for one wanted them to come back with an actual counter offer rather than a request for more money. They on the face of it at least have done that. The toss can be argued over all manner of nonsense but the fact remains, Joshua said give me $50 million, they've said OK.
The numbers side of things are still a mystery to me. Wilder's mob started peddling the $100 million dollar fight line but if they plan on genuinely giving AJ $50 million, they'll need a hell of a lot more than that. I've accused the $100 million club of wanting all of the money from all of the revenue sources from both sides of the pond all at the same time. If Wilder, or anyone else for that matter is considering getting paid, they'll need all that dough and then some.
A rarity here....... someone who says
"Ok I wanted to see "X" happen and it did, so I've recalibrated my opinion." Why is that so hard for people in general? ;D
So here we are, with Wilder's team having made that very much wanted counter offer.
One thing puzzles me and I don't necessarily agree with. You say if they plan on paying Joshua $50 million, they'll need to have the fight make "a hell of a lot more than" the famous $100 million figure. How so? Unless third parties or the IRS are going to take an outsized bite out of Wilder's take, he stands to make a hell of a lot more than the paltry $12.5 million Hearn first threw at him. Again, I'm not pushing the $100 million narrative, but if it does make that much and Joshua gets $50 million, how is that not good for Wilder?
I think we need to be clear about how we're defining 'The Pot' or how much money the fight makes. When I say $100 million, I mean gross, total revenue. I'm struggling to understand where $100 million gross comes from. If we're talking $100 million left in the pot for AJ and Wilder to share, then I'm really struggling.
If we take Ron's suggestion that the fight does 1 million PPV buys in the US, that's 50 million, which again as Ron pointed out, Showtime will take 50% of. So the biggest single source of income is now worth 25 million. You've now got to double your biggest single source of income to make enough money just to pay Joshua what you promised. No one else is getting paid any money yet.
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Hearn has contacted them asking them to provide paperwork
http://www.worldboxingnews.net/2018/...nd-will-happen
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Can anyone here remember any time in boxing history a promoter asks to see the money secured before even beginning negotiations?
Ask yourself does he think Al doesn't have the money? Or is this more likely an absurd distraction?
You want to try unraveling that? It is quite likely an absurd distraction by Wilder. It would follow form. This is a guy who has taken the most meandering path he could to avoid meeting any real challenges. You are turning this on it's head in order to preserve the notion that Joshua and Hearn who have invited Wilder's team to meet face to face, to negotiate etc are the ones avoiding Wilder.
Can you remember a time in boxing history when serious offers and negotiations were carried out by suggesting 24hr deadlines without any mention of details? 24hr deadlines when planned meetings with the camp you want to fight were cancelled? Does that sound like the actions of someone eager to get a fight made?
DO you really think Hearn is going to blow a chance to make money and history for himself as a promoter by dodging a unification bout of this magnitude.
We will know in a few hours but it sure sounds like Wilder doesn't want it.
Yes, he negotiated in bad faith last time after being caught blatantly lying. Why would they bother meeting someone who won't simply agree in principle to exactly what they aSked for?
Look at the history. Hearn said fight Whyte he and you can have AJ. Wilder said, okay put it in the contract. Then Hearn changed his story to be he doesn't connect his fighters. Lied, Wilder agreed to his demands, Hearn s changes his story
Here they said "give me 50 million and I'll agree tomorrow" again they change their story.
how many times do you negotiate in bad faith. They are quite clear, you want the meeting, agree to the fight. And you suggest the people that won't agree to the fight are in the right. You suggest the guys caught lying repeatedly are in the right. You suggest the guys thaT have been caught lying about their demands are right. It's laughable. Just agree in principle, it's boilerplate stuff. Then negotiate the terms. As boxing has done forever.I
You have a guy "a guy from Alabama..." As if he doesn't know where the money comes from, BS. And you're eating that nonsense up. He literally says he needs to know where the money comes from, BS, everyone knows where the money comes from.
It's simple, agree to the fight. Everything you've asked for and more has been offered, agree to fight. Then negotiate the terms, boxing 101
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
On the face of it, Joshua must accept the offer, in principle at least. You could argue that he already has with his lets roll comment, how formal does it need to be? I for one wanted them to come back with an actual counter offer rather than a request for more money. They on the face of it at least have done that. The toss can be argued over all manner of nonsense but the fact remains, Joshua said give me $50 million, they've said OK.
The numbers side of things are still a mystery to me. Wilder's mob started peddling the $100 million dollar fight line but if they plan on genuinely giving AJ $50 million, they'll need a hell of a lot more than that. I've accused the $100 million club of wanting all of the money from all of the revenue sources from both sides of the pond all at the same time. If Wilder, or anyone else for that matter is considering getting paid, they'll need all that dough and then some.
A rarity here....... someone who says
"Ok I wanted to see "X" happen and it did, so I've recalibrated my opinion." Why is that so hard for people in general? ;D
So here we are, with Wilder's team having made that very much wanted counter offer.
One thing puzzles me and I don't necessarily agree with. You say if they plan on paying Joshua $50 million, they'll need to have the fight make "a hell of a lot more than" the famous $100 million figure. How so? Unless third parties or the IRS are going to take an outsized bite out of Wilder's take, he stands to make a hell of a lot more than the paltry $12.5 million Hearn first threw at him. Again, I'm not pushing the $100 million narrative, but if it does make that much and Joshua gets $50 million, how is that not good for Wilder?
I think we need to be clear about how we're defining 'The Pot' or how much money the fight makes. When I say $100 million, I mean gross, total revenue. I'm struggling to understand where $100 million gross comes from. If we're talking $100 million left in the pot for AJ and Wilder to share, then I'm really struggling.
If we take Ron's suggestion that the fight does 1 million PPV buys in the US, that's 50 million, which again as Ron pointed out, Showtime will take 50% of. So the biggest single source of income is now worth 25 million. You've now got to double your biggest single source of income to make enough money just to pay Joshua what you promised. No one else is getting paid any money yet.
Fight won't be 50$. It will be 74.95 at least.
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Joshua and Haymon have their thumbs up their buttholes and are scared to agree to fight
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Basically he said no. "There are other offers, other terms to explore" then he asks for a contract when before he admitted a contract can't be made without the teams working together to work out the details. Eddie is maKing it quite clear from his carp offer to Wilder to "other terms to explore" that he "can get rich for no risk" and doesn't want risk.
Just agree and hammer out the details.
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
A simple agreement. That is all. What anal retention going on there!
Joshua has already tweeted as we all saw yesterday that he would love to do that fight and he said let's get it on
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Basically he said no. "There are other offers, other terms to explore" then he asks for a contract when before he admitted a contract can't be made without the teams working together to work out the details. Eddie is maKing it quite clear from his carp offer to Wilder to "other terms to explore" that he "can get rich for no risk" and doesn't want risk.
Just agree and hammer out the details.
Uh , actually that’s not what he said. So at first you base all your debates on the “he said” premise. Now if they didn’t say it, you’re gonna say they said it anyway.:rolleyes:
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
A simple agreement. That is all. What anal retention going on there!
Joshua has already tweeted as we all saw yesterday that he would love to do that fight and he said let's get it on
Yes, obvious to see who is the one in the way. The guy that said "I don't want the Wilder fight yet" and "we can get rich with no risk"
Let's look, Eddie says you can't agree in principle without a contract, BS, it's done all the time.
Eddie says you don't give someone 24 hours if you are trying to make the fight. Eddie literally just have Wilders team 48 hours FFS.
Eddie says the offer is from a guy from Alabama, every person involved has said it's from the team.
Eddie says Wilder didn't get that kind of money to offer from boxing. Again, playing pretend about who the money is coming from.
Eddie says AJs tv rights need to be sorted. No shit, same as they would need to be negotiated from Eddie's fake offer.
Most importantly Eddie says they can work out different splits. No, your offer was crap. You said what you wanted, Wilders team offered MORE than what you asked for.
Agree, negotiate the details, and fight. Most importantly stop with the BS.
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
All they have to do is agree in principle, and Al will move the money. Nobody moves 50 million for nothing. (What Eddie is asking them to do) Just agree in principle(bonds you in no way)and then make an attempt to hammer out the details.
Eddie will say "they won't meet with me" but Finkell is quite clear they have the money, they will show Eddie and secure if they simply agree in principle. And they will meet to sort it out. When Eddie stops distracting and says "we want it" there will be a fight.
https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-m...-claim--127564
I don't disagree with you as such, Eddie/AJ should just come out and say Yes, we asked for X amount, they have offered it, in principle we accept. But have they not already done that? Is it simply a language issue here or do you/they need to see or hear the exact words 'We accept in principle'? Given that Team Wilder's 'offer' wasn't exactly formal, aren't Eddie's (paraphrasing here) 'We're taking this very seriously, so long as it's legit and we need to see some more information' and Joshua's 'Let's roll' comments, tantamount to the same thing? Lets move forward?
I've heard Eddie plenty of times say they want to know if Wilder's team have got the dough. Not sure about Eddie asking them to move any money, where does that part come from?
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanz
Basically he said no. "There are other offers, other terms to explore" then he asks for a contract when before he admitted a contract can't be made without the teams working together to work out the details. Eddie is maKing it quite clear from his carp offer to Wilder to "other terms to explore" that he "can get rich for no risk" and doesn't want risk.
Just agree and hammer out the details.
Uh , actually that’s not what he said. So at first you base all your debates on the “he said” premise. Now if they didn’t say it, you’re gonna say they said it anyway.:rolleyes:
Which quote would you like me to provide, they are all easy to find. Eddie said "we can get rich with no risk" is it that I said he's basically saying no, Here is from this article ""There are other models and offers to explore" does that sound like a guy agreeing to an offer? I can provide other quotes like "that is not the only way it could get done, maybe our offer, our split" that's not hard to find I've supplied that video earlier in this thread. So what quote do you want me to provide? It's really easy to demonstrate Eddie talking out of both sides of his mouth because he doesn't stop talking.
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
All they have to do is agree in principle, and Al will move the money. Nobody moves 50 million for nothing. (What Eddie is asking them to do) Just agree in principle(bonds you in no way)and then make an attempt to hammer out the details.
Eddie will say "they won't meet with me" but Finkell is quite clear they have the money, they will show Eddie and secure if they simply agree in principle. And they will meet to sort it out. When Eddie stops distracting and says "we want it" there will be a fight.
https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-m...-claim--127564
I don't disagree with you as such, Eddie/AJ should just come out and say Yes, we asked for X amount, they have offered it, in principle we accept. But have they not already done that? Is it simply a language issue here or do you/they need to see or hear the exact words 'We accept in principle'? Given that Team Wilder's 'offer' wasn't exactly formal, aren't Eddie's (paraphrasing here) 'We're taking this very seriously, so long as it's legit and we need to see some more information' and Joshua's 'Let's roll' comments, tantamount to the same thing? Lets move forward?
I've heard Eddie plenty of times say they want to know if Wilder's team have got the dough. Not sure about Eddie asking them to move any money, where does that part come from?
He says he needs to see the money secured. Harmon shows a bank aCcount with 300 million it means nothing. To be secured it must be separate and protected, that means moving money. At no point in all of Eddie's talking has he said "If it is legit we'll agree" he always says "interested" and "we'll explore that". Perhaps there is a language difference because here "we'll explore that" and "we'll agree to that" are very very different. Not even the same ballpark.
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
On the face of it, Joshua must accept the offer, in principle at least. You could argue that he already has with his lets roll comment, how formal does it need to be? I for one wanted them to come back with an actual counter offer rather than a request for more money. They on the face of it at least have done that. The toss can be argued over all manner of nonsense but the fact remains, Joshua said give me $50 million, they've said OK.
The numbers side of things are still a mystery to me. Wilder's mob started peddling the $100 million dollar fight line but if they plan on genuinely giving AJ $50 million, they'll need a hell of a lot more than that. I've accused the $100 million club of wanting all of the money from all of the revenue sources from both sides of the pond all at the same time. If Wilder, or anyone else for that matter is considering getting paid, they'll need all that dough and then some.
A rarity here....... someone who says
"Ok I wanted to see "X" happen and it did, so I've recalibrated my opinion." Why is that so hard for people in general? ;D
So here we are, with Wilder's team having made that very much wanted counter offer.
One thing puzzles me and I don't necessarily agree with. You say if they plan on paying Joshua $50 million, they'll need to have the fight make "a hell of a lot more than" the famous $100 million figure. How so? Unless third parties or the IRS are going to take an outsized bite out of Wilder's take, he stands to make a hell of a lot more than the paltry $12.5 million Hearn first threw at him. Again, I'm not pushing the $100 million narrative, but if it does make that much and Joshua gets $50 million, how is that not good for Wilder?
I think we need to be clear about how we're defining 'The Pot' or how much money the fight makes. When I say $100 million, I mean gross, total revenue. I'm struggling to understand where $100 million gross comes from. If we're talking $100 million left in the pot for AJ and Wilder to share, then I'm really struggling.
If we take Ron's suggestion that the fight does 1 million PPV buys in the US, that's 50 million, which again as Ron pointed out, Showtime will take 50% of. So the biggest single source of income is now worth 25 million. You've now got to double your biggest single source of income to make enough money just to pay Joshua what you promised. No one else is getting paid any money yet.
Fight won't be 50$. It will be 74.95 at least.
Blimey. I thought 50 a pop was taking the piss. And a million people are going to buy at 75 bucks?
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Floyd v Manny was $100 for HD version.
Re: The Wilder Excuses Begin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Memphis
On the face of it, Joshua must accept the offer, in principle at least. You could argue that he already has with his lets roll comment, how formal does it need to be? I for one wanted them to come back with an actual counter offer rather than a request for more money. They on the face of it at least have done that. The toss can be argued over all manner of nonsense but the fact remains, Joshua said give me $50 million, they've said OK.
The numbers side of things are still a mystery to me. Wilder's mob started peddling the $100 million dollar fight line but if they plan on genuinely giving AJ $50 million, they'll need a hell of a lot more than that. I've accused the $100 million club of wanting all of the money from all of the revenue sources from both sides of the pond all at the same time. If Wilder, or anyone else for that matter is considering getting paid, they'll need all that dough and then some.
A rarity here....... someone who says
"Ok I wanted to see "X" happen and it did, so I've recalibrated my opinion." Why is that so hard for people in general? ;D
So here we are, with Wilder's team having made that very much wanted counter offer.
One thing puzzles me and I don't necessarily agree with. You say if they plan on paying Joshua $50 million, they'll need to have the fight make "a hell of a lot more than" the famous $100 million figure. How so? Unless third parties or the IRS are going to take an outsized bite out of Wilder's take, he stands to make a hell of a lot more than the paltry $12.5 million Hearn first threw at him. Again, I'm not pushing the $100 million narrative, but if it does make that much and Joshua gets $50 million, how is that not good for Wilder?
I think we need to be clear about how we're defining 'The Pot' or how much money the fight makes. When I say $100 million, I mean gross, total revenue. I'm struggling to understand where $100 million gross comes from. If we're talking $100 million left in the pot for AJ and Wilder to share, then I'm really struggling.
If we take Ron's suggestion that the fight does 1 million PPV buys in the US, that's 50 million, which again as Ron pointed out, Showtime will take 50% of. So the biggest single source of income is now worth 25 million. You've now got to double your biggest single source of income to make enough money just to pay Joshua what you promised. No one else is getting paid any money yet.
Fight won't be 50$. It will be 74.95 at least.
Blimey. I thought 50 a pop was taking the piss. And a million people are going to buy at 75 bucks?
I don’t know how many people will buy but 74.95 is rather common for HD here and nobody buys not HD(64.95). I just know everyone is talking about it here. There is buzz. It’s the first significant HW title fight since Lewis/Klitschko.
I think a lot of people are missing the very specific wording Eddie is using “secured”, not gathered. Secured
se·cure
səˈkyo͝or/Submit
verb
past tense: secured; past participle: secured
fix or attach (something) firmly so that it cannot be moved or lost.
"pins secure the handle to the main body"
synonyms: fix, attach, fasten, affix, connect, couple More
make (a door or container) hard to open; fasten or lock.
"doors are likely to be well secured at night"
synonyms: fasten, close, shut, lock, bolt, chain, seal
"the doors had not been properly secured"
protect against threats; make safe
My best friend is one of the leading international financing people in the world so I’m well aware of what “secured” money is. It is separate and bound by a contract. So Al can’t put 50 million in an account and say look, there it is. That is not secured. Asking for secured money without a contract is nonsense. It’s gibberish. People need to pay close attention to what Eddie is saying because it’s literally impossible the way he is saying it.
