Is it time for a Super Heavyweight division?

This is Jack Dempsey who in 1919 faced off against 6'6" Jess Willard who had a 50 lbs weight advantage and was knocked to the ground 5 times in the first round before being finished off in the third. Jack Dempsey in his prime weighed closer to 200 lbs, and had more power and speed. He would KO Valuev quickly in my opinion. Marciano had mad power and a great defense and despite fighting in a bit of a down era in heavyweight boxing dominated everyone. And I really couldn't see Valuev having any answer whatsoever to Smokin Joe's volume of punches. It would be a barrage. Any one of those fighters would KO Valuev in the fifth or sixth.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by squealpiggy

Does anyone really think that Valuev would have ever beaten Muhammed Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield etc etc?

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Marciano, Dempsey and maybe even Frazier if his chin is good enough...

Evolution, means Valuev puts himself in a great posiition to beat all three of them, IMO. ;)

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I'm wondering if Frazier can even reach Valuev chin?

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Originally Posted by squealpiggy

Marciano had a great defense

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:o

Unless of course you mean his face? ;D

No, I apologize, you are entitled to your opinion... ;)

He picked up a few knocks but he had quite a subtle method of devending using his elbows, rolling with punches, rolling the shoulder etc. And he would still have ltitle trouble with Valuev...

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Originally Posted by squealpiggy

He picked up a few knocks but he had quite a subtle method of devending using his elbows, rolling with punches, rolling the shoulder etc. And he would still have ltitle trouble with Valuev...

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He would have had IMO (pun intended) huge problems with Valuev.

Marciano (Marciano's management) avoided the big men of the division like the plague. Rocky's great strength was his strength; he would try to out last his opponent, by just being so intense, that his opponent would fold.

That tactic worked against the 180 to 220lbs opponents The Brockton Blockbuster fought, but IMO and seemingly in Marciano's management opinion, would not of worked against the big men.

....Britkid, which big men imparticular did Marciano avoid???

He retired to get rid of his manager who was stealing from him and his training was catching up with him but he wanted Ingmar Johansen as a come back fight.

To be honest, I think there's already more than enough divisions in the pro game, and with some of the greatest fighters being able to grab belts in three divisions, then there might be a case of reducing them somewhat. Granted, my support fo this would be mainly to help keep track of all the different titlists in all the different divisions.

Does anyone know how many worldwide belts there are altogether? And obviously some of the title holders also have minor international ones again which just confuse me even more.

Our very own Fighting Farmer Alan Jones actually fought Irish lad Jim Rock for the IBC World Middleweight title, all respect to him for being a world title fighter, but who the hell are the IBC?

Anyway, that's why I'm such a big fan of fighters looking to unify divisions, to help me with my ADHD and lack of concentration when it comes to all the belts!

here is a thread i started about the number of boxing organisations. It seems to be a fairly comprehensive list:

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...html#msg359760

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by squealpiggy

Does anyone really think that Valuev would have ever beaten Muhammed Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield etc etc?

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Marciano, Dempsey and maybe even Frazier if his chin is good enough...

Evolution, means Valuev puts himself in a great posiition to beat all three of them, IMO. ;)

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LOL...evolution!??!? are you saying that Valuev is more evolved than the fighters mentioned??? not to get into a darwinian discussion with you but I doubt Valuev is more "evolved" than even anyone on this board ;)...Nutrition and training have gotten better but but I doubt Valuev is anything more than a "freak" that was discovered by some very motivated promoters...does a mediocre giant beat a mediocre small guy? yes....but have you seen Valuev fight??? Johnny Ruiz gave him everything he could handle and in my opinion won!....Jesse Willard was easily knocked stiff by Dempsey, Frazier crushed Ernie Terrell, Holyfield and Tyson had pretty good runs too....I adhere to the Vince Lombardi philosophy "it's not the size of the dog in the fight...it's the size of the fight in the dog"...of course, this is within reason...I doubt Valuev beats any of the champions mentioned above...but that's only my opinion

Yup, it just about becomes ridiculous where we are at the moment. Eventually it will get to the point where a promoter will have some cronies set up a Boxing Organisation, or buy a small one out, and have all his boxers 'World Champions' just to make it look good on the bloody posters.

EVOLUTION??? Who brought that up?!?!?! Look at Valuev's head and tell me he has evolved! He looks like he was thawed out of a glacier!!!

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by squealpiggy

Does anyone really think that Valuev would have ever beaten Muhammed Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield etc etc?

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Marciano, Dempsey and maybe even Frazier if his chin is good enough...

Evolution, means Valuev puts himself in a great posiition to beat all three of them, IMO. ;)

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Seriously I would consider Valuev to be one of the greatest evidences against evolution. I'm suprised the Christian right in America havn't touted him as proof that we never evolved from ape men.

I mean how can people say we evolved from hairy ape men ancestors millions of years ago when they are clearly still alive and well and living in Russia?

There are grazing cattle out in the fields who are on Valium hoping this division doesn't come into existence.

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by squealpiggy

Does anyone really think that Valuev would have ever beaten Muhammed Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield etc etc?

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Marciano, Dempsey and maybe even Frazier if his chin is good enough...

Evolution, means Valuev puts himself in a great posiition to beat all three of them, IMO. ;)

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Seriously I would consider Valuev to be one of the greatest evidences against evolution. I'm suprised the Christian right in America havn't touted him as proof that we never evolved from ape men.

I mean how can people say we evolved from hairy ape men ancestors millions of years ago when they are clearly still alive and well and living in Russia?

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Ah, the good old American Christian Right. The stooge for any joke people can find to make! It's not just Valuev though, but many of the more ferocious all-action boxers do seem to be in an earlier stage of evolution, the kind that makes a bear charge at one ina pack of dogs, not caring about what damage he'll take from the other dogs. Surely being in an earlier stage of evolution is welcomed by the managers who want these reckless fighters that go in with no care for their own being, attacking on a pure survival instinct.

240 lbs. is still too low for me. I would start at 250. There are plenty of guys weighing 250 lbs. or more in boxing today.

Valuev's destruction of Owen Beck gives additional credence to the notion that some guys are so big that if they have any skills at all, they're too strong for the regular sized heavyweights. Valuev is still not that skilled but he's good enough. His technique is improving. Beck was surprised as heck, no pun intended. He said that Valuev did some things that they didn't see on tapes of Valuev's previous fights. Once Valuev uses combinations and gets more leverage on his punches it's all over for most of the smaller heavyweights. They won't stand a chance. It's bordering on an unfair contest to pit Valuev against guys in the 200 to 240 lb. range. Even most guys around 250 lbs. are overmatched. If Valuev fought Ruiz again I think he would knock the "quiet man" out.