What the hell happened to Mike Tyson?

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Originally Posted by miles

Tyson did not fail....He did reach greatness

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Agreed. Tyson did reach greatness and it gets on my nerves when people don't recognise that. As i've said before, he lit up a division seemingly in decline following the retirement of Muhammad Ali, and then steamrolled through the best fighters that the heavyweight division had to offer at the time. However, Tyson was his own worst enemy and after Cus D'Amato and Jim Jacobs died he went in the wrong direction. Parting with Kevin Rooney was a major mistake IMO but no-one really knows the reasoning behind that. There's plenty of rumours though, and Rooney himself has gave his verdict. Tyson simply weren't educated for fame and didn't really know what to do with it and this aided his downfall. Though the hangers-on, ill advice, and people generally trying to steal or make money from him never helped, still Tyson didn't do himself any favours.
My question to people who don't recognise Tyson's greatness is this... Would you label Lennox Lewis a great? Indeed the answer should be 'Yes!' IMO.
In which case Tyson should be labelled as such. The heavyweight division wasn't the best when Tyson was at his best but it was no worse than the heavyweight division when Lewis what at his best, however, Lewis -Tyson never got the opportunity to fight each other when they were both at their best. Simply put Tyson beat many fighters who sometimes don't get the credit they deserve i.e. Tony Tucker, Mitch Green, James Tillis, James Smith etc, and he put paid to opinions about fighters labelled capable of beating the then unbeaten Tyson i.e. Tyrell Biggs, Michael Spinks.
Being the youngest man to win the heavyweight title against Trevor Berbick was obviously a great achievement in itself and there were also good victories over the legendary Larry Holmes (although past his best), Carl Williams, Frank Bruno, and Tony Tubbs.
For arguments sake... When comparing that record with Lewis's i think it compares well, and both Lewis and Tyson achieved greatness IMO.

Tyson was a beast, ill never forget watchng his fights, he could knock anyone out in any round, he was a weapon in my eyes, but hes compeletly gone now, his comeback attemps have failed its ashame hes lost it all

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Originally Posted by miles

Tyson did not fail....He did reach greatness

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Great Line Miles...CC

Tyson was always a manic depressive. He had a lot of self-hate and (as many of these guys do) he would do things that were likely to harm himself (think of Jake LaMotta taking punches on purpose). That's why he would go with people like King etc, even though he probably knew deep down that they did not care for him.

Tyson did not care for himself, he thought he was unworthy to receive love and affection, so why should anyone else give him love, affection or respect?

Ironically, becoming famous has fed this illness, as he continued to negatively reinforce this while he was at the height of his fame.

I think that the reason Tyson was such a devastating fighter (and let's not rewrite history and say that he was not) was that he was terrified when he was in the ring. I think he was terrified of losing because he felt unworthy in every other respect. That is why he was so quick and powerful - he was hyped on fear adrenaline, and the victory was the only thing that could keep his biggest fears at bay.

Once he lost, and his while world did not fall apart, he no longer had the depth of fear that he had before ...... and he was never the same fighter again.

Sorry - cheap psychology, but is's only my opinion! :-\

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Originally Posted by X

Tyson was always a manic depressive. He had a lot of self-hate and (as many of these guys do) he would do things that were likely to harm himself (think of Jake LaMotta taking punches on purpose). That's why he would go with people like King etc, even though he probably knew deep down that they did not care for him.

Tyson did not care for himself, he thought he was unworthy to receive love and affection, so why should anyone else give him love, affection or respect?

Ironically, becoming famous has fed this illness, as he continued to negatively reinforce this while he was at the height of his fame.

I think that the reason Tyson was such a devastating fighter (and let's not rewrite history and say that he was not) was that he was terrified when he was in the ring. I think he was terrified of losing because he felt unworthy in every other respect. That is why he was so quick and powerful - he was hyped on fear adrenaline, and the victory was the only thing that could keep his biggest fears at bay.

Once he lost, and his while world did not fall apart, he no longer had the depth of fear that he had before ...... and he was never the same fighter again.

Sorry - cheap psychology, but is's only my opinion! :-\

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I agree with you entirely...have you read the book ''Fire and Fear'' by Ray Torres? gives much the same analysis..Tyson was always a very troubled kid and his whole sense of value and self worth was winning in the ring...Tyson was so insecure even as an amatuer he would come crying back to his corner if his opponent would still be fighting back come the 3rd round...and as you stated when he lost and found the world didn't end, it wasn't so bad maybe even better than winning...In losing he still got paid, peole still treated him well and he had no expectations of winning his next fight....fighting wasn't a passion for Mike Tyson, it was an escape from the horrors and fate of his Brownsville life...

In an historical look at Mike Tyson, I see Mike as a fighter with Great potential who had some Great fights and who was sometimes a Great fighter...and yes he had a Great career...BUT, due to his inconsistancy he just misses being an All-time Great(top10 that is) in my book...

I will have a look for that book, and see if I can pick it up. Is Ray Torres any relation to Jose?

I always like reading things that agree with my own preconceptions!!
;)

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Originally Posted by X

I will have a look for that book, and see if I can pick it up. Is Ray Torres any relation to Jose?

I always like reading things that agree with my own preconceptions!!
;)

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My bad, it is Jose Torres...Here is a NY Times link to some boxing books with a review of "Fire and Fear"

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...=&pagewanted=1

oddly enough the book was out in 1989 with a pretty ominous prediction...."But because of the bad crowd Mr. Tyson has fallen into, the book suggests, he is no longer using all his skills. Sooner or later he is going to pay."

I heard that Jose Torres has doen a book about Tyson (was he also a D'Amato fighter?)

I will get hold of it

Thanks for the pointer

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Originally Posted by X

Tyson was always a manic depressive. He had a lot of self-hate and (as many of these guys do) he would do things that were likely to harm himself (think of Jake LaMotta taking punches on purpose). That's why he would go with people like King etc, even though he probably knew deep down that they did not care for him.

Tyson did not care for himself, he thought he was unworthy to receive love and affection, so why should anyone else give him love, affection or respect?

Ironically, becoming famous has fed this illness, as he continued to negatively reinforce this while he was at the height of his fame.

I think that the reason Tyson was such a devastating fighter (and let's not rewrite history and say that he was not) was that he was terrified when he was in the ring. I think he was terrified of losing because he felt unworthy in every other respect. That is why he was so quick and powerful - he was hyped on fear adrenaline, and the victory was the only thing that could keep his biggest fears at bay.

Once he lost, and his while world did not fall apart, he no longer had the depth of fear that he had before ...... and he was never the same fighter again.

Sorry - cheap psychology, but is's only my opinion! :-\

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:coolclick: nice post!! very well written

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

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Originally Posted by mrkyll

"he got rid of his corner: Kevin Rooney, Teddy Atlas and Freddie Roach.....and picked up a bunch of bums and unproven Trainers to take over.....he got rid of every person that had his best interests in mind(and could control him somewhat) and pick up a bunch of people concerned with their own interests.....very sad to see happen.....Tyson needed people to kick him in the behind to keep him in line...he got people that let him do whatever he wanted.....thus the end of Tyson..."


Your right!

It all started with the death of Cus..and then Jim Jacobs.

People always seem to forget the influence that Jacobs had on the career of Mike Tyson.

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exactly..................
not to mention that cus was like a father to him
PLUS
what kind of effect do you think robin givens had on him??
that woman should be shot.......poor mike
then when he had nothing, don king swooped in like a vulture and ruined him

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Don King ruined Mike ?

Was it in Don Kings intrest to ruin the biggest money making machine ever to hit boxing ?

If anything Don managed him too well and fed him to many easy fighters i think Don King wanted Rooney and Atlas rid of but i dont think Don King wanted Mike T shooting his nuts in a different bird every night and doing all the partying he was doing .

Mike ruined Mike Tyson .

Don King helped Evander Holyfield make over 200 million dollars and Evander never had a 100th of the pulling power of a Tyson .

Don King did a great job with Cesar Chavez and Felix Trinidad in the 90s and got a Zab Judah how many title shots when his arse had been blasted .


Tyson was just too weak mentally despite his imposing physique he always had a victim mentality and whilst i aggree Atlas and Rooney were good for Tyson theres nothing to suggest Mike wouldnt have gone off the rails.

Mike Tyson's biggest problem was with women. He tried to commit suicide when he was married to Robin Givens. He was also convicted of rape, and lost a few of his prime fighting years. He was never the same after prison.

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Originally Posted by jtrock

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by IloveThisGirl

I've seen many videos of him, and he looked like he had to be the hardest puncher ever to hit boxing. Why did he fly flat then? Was he not smart enough for this sport? He had the muscles, but did he truly have the muscle that was the most important out of all the muscles? Now thats the question that we need answers 2. Did his coach dying cause him to forget his boxing ways. His coach who was more than a father to him than his real father.

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It's a simple case of "you can take the boy out of the hood. But you can't take the hood out the boy". Tyson just reverted to forum by acting the way he did. It was always his nature.

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He had become a side show of sorts after the loss to Lewis his desire to fight and take punishment and train just wasnt there...His last few fights were cause he had to financially not because he wanted too.. watching him lose was sad cause you can see it in his eyes he didnt want it anymore.

Mike not boxing anymore is the best thing for him mentally,I hope he finds the peace he is looking for

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Desire was gone before that.

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Originally Posted by eugepang

Mike Tyson's biggest problem was with women. 

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Thats the only thing Mike and I have in common ;)

He got old fat and lazy IMO, at a real young age.

Mind of an 12 year old boy