Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I can't stand MMA, K-1, Pride or any of that bullcrap...with those sports you have pretty much NO history, no tradition...with boxing it's tradtion born from friggin Ancient Rome and when someone is (now UNIFIED, or Linear) Heavyweight Champion they hold the same position Jack Johnson, John L. Sullivan, and Jim Corbett held.
and I find kicking to be rather girlish, if you can't beat someone with your fists you don't deserve to
Lyle my friend you never cease to amaze me, you know NOTHING about Ancient combat systems were the origin of most martial arts come from Hence MMA which run 100's of years before Boxing, it was called survival.. For Example some Ancient combat systems are indigenous to the regions they were born from...Long before they had guns and knifes,swords armor,people defended themselves with there limbs hand to hand combat and slowly weapons were incorporated as they were introduced to society..Some combat systems are weapons oriented so they can be done open handed or with a sword,knife,stick but the movements are the same..Strikes that are more civilized have been incorporated into the sport form while other movements like joint manipulations joint destruction eye gouging have etc have been left out for obvious reasons
Entertainment value is subjective I agree 100% and thats your right to dislike it but thats an all time low for you to get on a public forum and take an unprovoked attack on someones style..I work hard at what I do and to have some punk ass like you to tell me I'm girly for kicking someone is bullshit period!!!! its a whole different skill set all together...
Tell you Mr big balls,Would you be willing to step in a cage with a welterweight NHB fighter and tell him his style sucks and he is a girl for what he does???? I tend to believe you wouldnt have the 1st Idea on how to deal with the consequences though...we would find you trying to climb the side of the cage like some pathetic snivelling keyboard jocky you are
Stick to what you know... Hugging Wlads nuts OH!!!!! and more tradional for you would be tugging on Foremans too
You Know were the TRADITION is from ancient martial arts??? Its called survival you get to live another day thats the FRIGGIN LINEAGE YOU POMPOUS THICK HEADED MORON!!!!
1 more thing Boxing is considered a Martial Art!!!
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deutschland uber alles
The state of boxing is fine at least here in Europe - we get more and more top fights here where before many of the fights was held in the US. I think a lot of US fighters are hoping for a fight in Europe now as the money are good here at least from MW and up.
A lot of American claims that American boxing sucks as more potentially boxers chose traditionally American sports - but the figures shows that fewer and fewer Americans are going into these sports because a lot of foreigners is taking up their spots in the traditionally sports.
you lost me on the bottem part? ::** Now for American heavyweights sucking . U right about that. as far as the rest of the divisons Americans are strong in these areas . IMO
I really like these Russian fighters coming up, they bring it ! very good fighters, and excellent boxing coaches over there. very tough strict conditions and most important discipline
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I can't stand MMA, K-1, Pride or any of that bullcrap...with those sports you have pretty much NO history, no tradition...with boxing it's tradtion born from friggin Ancient Rome and when someone is (now UNIFIED, or Linear) Heavyweight Champion they hold the same position Jack Johnson, John L. Sullivan, and Jim Corbett held.
and I find kicking to be rather girlish, if you can't beat someone with your fists you don't deserve to
Lyle my friend you never cease to amaze me, you know NOTHING about Ancient combat systems were the origin of most martial arts come from Hence MMA which run 100's of years before Boxing, it was called survival.. For Example some Ancient combat systems are indigenous to the regions they were born from...Long before they had guns and knifes,swords armor,people defended themselves with there limbs hand to hand combat and slowly weapons were incorporated as they were introduced to society..Some combat systems are weapons oriented so they can be done open handed or with a sword,knife,stick but the movements are the same..Strikes that are more civilized have been incorporated into the sport form while other movements like joint manipulations joint destruction eye gouging have etc have been left out for obvious reasons
Entertainment value is subjective I agree 100% and thats your right to dislike it but thats an all time low for you  to get on a public forum and take an unprovoked attack on someones style..I work hard at what I do and to have some punk a** like you to tell me I'm girly for kicking someone is bullshit period!!!! its a whole different skill set all together...
Tell you Mr big balls,Would you be willing to step in a cage with a welterweight NHB fighter and tell him his style sucks and he is a girl for what he does???? I tend to believe you wouldnt have the 1st Idea on how to deal with the consequences though...we would find you trying to climb the side of the cage like some pathetic snivelling keyboard jocky you are
Stick to what you know... Hugging Wlads nuts OH!!!!! and more tradional for you would be tugging on Foremans too
You Know were the TRADITION is from ancient martial arts??? Its called survival you get to live another day thats the FRIGGIN LINEAGE YOU POMPOUS THICK HEADED MORON!!!! 
1 more thing Boxing is considered a Martial Art!!!
I got to say I am sorry for insulting you and calling you a  moron and a Wlad Hugger. I feel as though disliking something is fine and your God given right, but dont S*** on what someone else does and other Martial Arts (especially unprovoked)  just cause you dont like it or find it entertaining........
Being a Martial artist is not about owning Karate kid headbands,Chinese stars, numchuks and having Velvet Bruce Lee paintings, Its very rich in tradition, history and different cultural understanding..Things like arm bars and leg locks,chokes etc are designed to break bones and mutilate and to mame in real life self defense situations, but made more civilized and used as  submissions for sport purposes...
These moves were no invented in the mid 90's they have been around for hundreds of years for survival thats the tradition...
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I can't stand MMA, K-1, Pride or any of that bullcrap...
I don't know if it's bullcrap, but I don't like watching it either. There is something less compelling about those fights, almost boring. Calvin Brock Vs. Ibragimov type boring. It also seems that their skills are very sloppy and unhoned.
Of course, I have a huge collection of 70's and 80's kung fu flicks so what do I know...
I feel the same way, I am a martial arts fan also, but like you said the K1 stuff for the most part seems sloppy, and fairly boring to watch . To each his own I guess.
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrock
Lyle my friend you never cease to amaze me, you know NOTHING about Ancient combat systems were the origin of most martial arts come from Hence MMA which run 100's of years before Boxing, it was called survival.. For Example some Ancient combat systems are indigenous to the regions they were born from...Long before they had guns and knifes,swords armor,people defended themselves with there limbs hand to hand combat and slowly weapons were incorporated as they were introduced to society..Some combat systems are weapons oriented so they can be done open handed or with a sword,knife,stick but the movements are the same..Strikes that are more civilized have been incorporated into the sport form while other movements like joint manipulations joint destruction eye gouging have etc have been left out for obvious reasons
Entertainment value is subjective I agree 100% and thats your right to dislike it but thats an all time low for you to get on a public forum and take an unprovoked attack on someones style..I work hard at what I do and to have some punk a** like you to tell me I'm girly for kicking someone is bullshit period!!!! its a whole different skill set all together...
Tell you Mr big balls,Would you be willing to step in a cage with a welterweight NHB fighter and tell him his style sucks and he is a girl for what he does???? I tend to believe you wouldnt have the 1st Idea on how to deal with the consequences though...we would find you trying to climb the side of the cage like some pathetic snivelling keyboard jocky you are
Stick to what you know... Hugging Wlads nuts OH!!!!! and more tradional for you would be tugging on Foremans too
You Know were the TRADITION is from ancient martial arts??? Its called survival you get to live another day thats the FRIGGIN LINEAGE YOU POMPOUS THICK HEADED MORON!!!!
1 more thing Boxing is considered a Martial Art!!!
I got to say I am sorry for insulting you and calling you a moron and a Wlad Hugger. I feel as though disliking something is fine and your God given right, but dont S*** on what someone else does and other Martial Arts (especially unprovoked) just cause you dont like it or find it entertaining........
Being a Martial artist is not about owning Karate kid headbands,Chinese stars, numchuks and having Velvet Bruce Lee paintings, Its very rich in tradition, history and different cultural understanding..Things like arm bars and leg locks,chokes etc are designed to break bones and mutilate and to mame in real life self defense situations, but made more civilized and used as submissions for sport purposes...
These moves were no invented in the mid 90's they have been around for hundreds of years for survival thats the tradition...
[/quote]
I understand the whole "martial arts" tradition, I never said anything about Ju Jutsu, Tae Kwan Do, and so on and so forth as for "Mixed Martial Arts" or "Pride" or "Ultimate Fighting" I don't like them, yeah ok if people want to kick in fights whatever, I don't care, yeah I guess in a "street fight" I would expect such tactics but I don't kick, call me old fashioned, call me whatever you want I would just rather use my fists.
If you are going to have no holds barred fighting, then do it right, pride and ufc...take away the gloves and let the guys go at it...I'm not a fan of submission holds either, it's boring it's childish...you remember the bully in A Christmas Story "say uncle, say uncle"....I don't know maybe something is wrong with me, I'd rather see boxing.
I have nothing but respect for the tradition of martial arts though
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If you are going to have no holds barred fighting, then do it right, pride and ufc...take away the gloves and let the guys go at it...I'm not a fan of submission holds either, it's boring it's childish...you remember the bully in A Christmas Story "say uncle, say uncle"....I don't know maybe something is wrong with me, I'd rather see boxing.
Agreed. Nothing's wrong with you...I'd rather see boxing too.
The thing is...this site is debticated to boxing...MMA/Pride Fighting is not boxing...no matter what anyone says...sorry...it just aint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I have nothing but respect for the tradition of martial arts though
Agreed again.
:coolclick:
Huge fan of martial arts as a science...but not the form it has taken in MMA.
That anyone actually believes MMA is remotely close to the true source/science of reputtable martial arts kills me.
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If you are going to have no holds barred fighting, then do it right, pride and ufc...take away the gloves and let the guys go at it...I'm not a fan of submission holds either, it's boring it's childish...you remember the bully in A Christmas Story "say uncle, say uncle"....I don't know maybe something is wrong with me, I'd rather see boxing.
Agreed. Nothing's wrong with you...I'd rather see boxing too.
The thing is...this site is debticated to boxing...MMA/Pride Fighting is not boxing...no matter what anyone says...sorry...it just aint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I have nothing but respect for the tradition of martial arts though
Agreed again.
:coolclick:
Huge fan of martial arts as a science...but not the form it has taken in MMA.
That anyone actually believes MMA is remotely close to the true source/science of reputtable martial arts kills me.
Sorry to kill you Wacks!!!! all joking aside MMA sport Submissions are civilized versions of what they were designed to do long time ago, KILL and MAME... thats what they are...PERIOD!!!!! and if you read and research Martial Arts grappling systems like Russian Sambo,Ju Jitsu, Brazilian Ju Jitsu, Dumog(Filipino Grappling) Greco Roman Wrestling,Shooto(Japanese Shoot Wrestling) and various other cultural grappling systems are.. TRUE SOURCE AND VERY REPUTTABLE!!!! Whether you want to believe it or not it is true just about every culture dating back to ancient times has some sort of self defense system that includes grappling, whether it was born from there culture or it was an influence from another culture that occupied there territory or vice versa or mixed the two together etc...
I am not argueing which one is better Boxing or MMA!!!! I am well aware that this is a BOXING FORUM... I do not post MMA Things on here Unless I put it under the appropriate MMA section were I am invited to do so on the forum home page.. I am already registered to a World wide forum like this that belongs to the school I train in to dicuss Martial Arts Science Technique Origin and History,Tradition etc..
I keep my MMA Opinions to myself but when you and Lyle post things that are scientific,traditionaly and historically wrong I am gonna call you on it cause it is just false info POINT BLANK!!!!
I am not offended that you dont like MMA I really dont care either way I LOVE Boxing just like you guys thats why I am here and do not wish to convert you to MMA or argue its signifigance when you dont see any value in it.. You have Free will and have the choice in life to entertain yourself as you please...
I like your posts and Lyle's and find them informative and educational, BUT the problem I have is when you are speaking about MMA and stating your opinion but saying it is fact, that is just plain Wrong and I will call you on it 10 times out of 10
Calling it WHITE TRASH,GIRLISH AND HAVING NO TRADITION OR HISTORY is just opinions of yours...
and Lyle there is nothing wrong with you brother BOXING is awsome and like I say entertainment value is subjective
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
:coolclick: to the both of you I really like this site and enjoy the mix of guys and girls on it and enjoy a good educational discussion!!!
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
I have always heard it said that if you want to learn to defend yourself and you want to do it fast take up boxing.
The martial arts is a loooooong journey with no destination. Most people are in too big a rush to appreciate it.
I have a Korean friend who swears to me that it all started there, but I was under the impression that it has it's roots in China. Then on National Geographic or Discovery Channel a few years back I hear India. Which is it, JT?
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
:coolclick: i think this is the worst boxing has been, there is no tyson or ali.
the last time i remember the papers hyping a fight was the lacyv calz
theres hardly any talk about boxing in the papers, its all football. Theres hardly anything hapning in boxing. too many ppl ducking and diving, they should jus get in the ring and fight ;D in boxing it takes 2 months to negotiate a fight then another 2/3 months for the fight to happen, takes the piss!
i think mma is on the rise and k-1. thats cos the fights just get made jus like that.
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrock
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If you are going to have no holds barred fighting, then do it right, pride and ufc...take away the gloves and let the guys go at it...I'm not a fan of submission holds either, it's boring it's childish...you remember the bully in A Christmas Story "say uncle, say uncle"....I don't know maybe something is wrong with me, I'd rather see boxing.
Agreed. Nothing's wrong with you...I'd rather see boxing too.
The thing is...this site is debticated to boxing...MMA/Pride Fighting is not boxing...no matter what anyone says...sorry...it just aint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I have nothing but respect for the tradition of martial arts though
Agreed again.
:coolclick:
Huge fan of martial arts as a science...but not the form it has taken in MMA.
That anyone actually believes MMA is remotely close to the true source/science of reputtable martial arts kills me.
Sorry to kill you Wacks!!!! all joking aside MMA sport Submissions are civilized versions of what they were designed to do long time ago, KILL and MAME... thats what they are...PERIOD!!!!! and if you read and research Martial Arts grappling systems like Russian Sambo,Ju Jitsu, Brazilian Ju Jitsu, Dumog(Filipino Grappling) Greco Roman Wrestling,Shooto(Japanese Shoot Wrestling) and various other cultural grappling systems are.. TRUE SOURCE AND VERY REPUTTABLE!!!! Whether you want to believe it or not it is true just about every culture dating back to ancient times has some sort of self defense system that includes grappling, whether it was born from there culture or it was an influence from another culture that occupied there territory or vice versa or mixed the two together etc...
I am not argueing which one is better Boxing or MMA!!!! I am well aware that this is a BOXING FORUM... I do not post MMA Things on here Unless I put it under the appropriate MMA section were I am invited to do so on the forum home page.. I am already registered to a World wide forum like this that belongs to the school I train in to dicuss Martial Arts Science Technique Origin and History,Tradition etc..
I keep my MMA Opinions to myself but when you and Lyle post things that are scientific,traditionaly and historically wrong I am gonna call you on it cause it is just false info POINT BLANK!!!!
I am not offended that you dont like MMA I really dont care either way I LOVE Boxing just like you guys thats why I am here and do not wish to convert you to MMA or argue its signifigance when you dont see any value in it.. You have Free will and have the choice in life to entertain yourself as you please...
I like your posts and Lyle's and find them informative and educational, BUT the problem I have is when you are speaking about MMA and stating your opinion but saying it is fact, that is just plain Wrong and I will call you on it 10 times out of 10
Calling it WHITE TRASH,GIRLISH AND HAVING NO TRADITION OR HISTORY is just opinions of yours...
and Lyle there is nothing wrong with you brother BOXING is awsome and like I say entertainment value is subjective
Let me say this...I see where you are coming from...wanting to defend what you love...but IWO...MMA, while it comprises of kicking & some boxing does not equate to what I have always known to be martial arts.
To me MMA comes from where it was rooted & that is that it has a lot to do with Greek wrestling & Japanese wrestling.
I just don't consider MMA to be as diciplined as actual martial art techniques. I don't buy into the art of wrestling or grappling. I know some people do...but it does indeed bore me. I know that there is a skill to it...but in the end...it just don't work for me.
Again...I aint trying to rip...but I do have a lower opinion of it than I do boxing.
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
I think of MMA as just survival type means of fighting which is totally different than you Boxing, Karate, K-1 (eventhough it's boring)
MMA is just rolling on the ground and grappling and striking while you're on the ground .....and basically I could take a trip to a middle or high school and see that stuff on a regular everyday basis for free.
It's fighting but discipline?....no there is no discipline, I mean we're talking about pulling hair, choke holds, eye gouges....I'd fight different if I was trying to kill someone that's for sure and it might be more of the MMA style but if you aren't "fighting for your life" then basically it's gayness
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
MMA is just rolling on the ground
if you aren't "fighting for your life" then basically it's gayness
:doh: lol
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
I have the greatest respect for jtrocks opinions and I'm sure the true lineage and history of martial arts is a long, interesting and rewarding one.
It seems to me though the MMA and the like represent the very antithesis of what pure martial arts training is actually about.
I must admit my knowledge of martial arts is limited pretty much to watching Enter the Dragon and The Karate Kid but I've always been led to believe that true martial arts were about self mastery, discipline and control rather than brawling for entertainment?
To me MMA has more in common with WWF Wrestling than with true martial arts. I'm also fairly certain the majority of guys involved are there, mainly because they are not good enough to excel at any other sport so resort to MMA to get fame, money and adulation.
You cannot tell me that Tank Abott is a serious athlete for example. To me he is a step down from Butterbean in terms of skill and ability.
Yes I've watched MMA and Ultimate fighting and enjoyed it, but never have I marvelled at any technical abilities or subtle skills that were on display.
For me it's always occupied the same kind of ground entertainment wise as watching World's Wildest Street Brawls, or Bumfights. Its just entertaining, largely mindless violence to sell a few dvds and fill a few minor arenas with fans who see their favourite fighters much the same way as they would see Hulk Hugan, The Rock, or The Undertaker.
However, as I am purely a boxing fan, don't take this personally jtrock ;)
I'm sure if I turned up on the MMA forums and waxed lyrical about how much better boxing was than MMA I'd have a far worse reception than you have here,
Re: Is This the Worst It's Ever Been for Boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
I have the greatest respect for jtrocks opinions and I'm sure the true lineage and history of martial arts is a long, interesting and rewarding one.
It seems to me though the MMA and the like represent the very antithesis of what pure martial arts training is actually about.
I must admit my knowledge of martial arts is limited pretty much to watching Enter the Dragon and The Karate Kid but I've always been led to believe that true martial arts were about self mastery, discipline and control rather than brawling for entertainment?
To me MMA has more in common with WWF Wrestling than with true martial arts. I'm also fairly certain the majority of guys involved are there, mainly because they are not good enough to excel at any other sport so resort to MMA to get fame, money and adulation.
You cannot tell me that Tank Abott is a serious athlete for example. To me he is a step down from Butterbean in terms of skill and ability.
Yes I've watched MMA and Ultimate fighting and enjoyed it, but never have I marvelled at any technical abilities or subtle skills that were on display.
For me it's always occupied the same kind of ground entertainment wise as watching World's Wildest Street Brawls, or Bumfights. Its just entertaining, largely mindless violence to sell a few dvds and fill a few minor arenas with fans who see their favourite fighters much the same way as they would see Hulk Hugan, The Rock, or The Undertaker.
However, as I am purely a boxing fan, don't take this personally jtrock ;)
I'm sure if I turned up on the MMA forums and waxed lyrical about how much better boxing was than MMA I'd have a far worse reception than you have here,
Agreed...all but the Ralph Machio parts... ;D
:coolclick:
