Should Hopkins have moved up to Light Heavy a few years ago?

I don't look down on his accomplishment at all. If I have the fortune of being able to vote him into the hall, it will be my pleasure. Staying at 160 and being consistent for 20 defenses is amazing . But up til he fought Tarver , who wasn't as good IMO as some of the names you mentioned ( Joppy had been Trinidized by that point but the others were viable and dangerous guys ) , he never dared to be great by taking a risk against a bigger guy . And even the Tarver fight was a calculated move IMO .

And what about the names you didn't mention ? Robert Allen 3 times is not impressive . IF you can't beat Allen's ass bad enough the first or second time , what is the problem ? O0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ender

I don't look down on his accomplishment at all. If I have the fortune of being able to vote him into the hall, it will be my pleasure. Staying at 160 and being consistent for 20 defenses is amazing .

---

Sure it's amazing...no other fighter has done it...but other fighters have fought lesser opposition going from division to division & have done less work...but they are then called marvels.

I don't buy into that bullshat.

People call Mayweather great, people call Taylor great, people call Hatton great...but none of them did or have done what Hopkins did...& he catches flack for fighting in a weak division...the division was not that weak...people just didn't really follow the fighters.

I will agree that it wasn't full of Haglers, Leonards, & Hearns...but it wasn't at the current state of 200+ pounds.

Hopkins deserves credit as do the mean that he beat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ender

But up til he fought Tarver , who wasn't as good IMO as some of the names you mentioned ( Joppy had been Trinidized by that point but the others were viable and dangerous guys ) , he never dared to be great by taking a risk against a bigger guy . And even the Tarver fight was a calculated move IMO .

---

If you don't think that the guys that I mentioned weren't bigger guys...then I'm a bit curoius about the way that you follow weight classes or divisions.

The bulk of the men that Hopkins fought were light middles & middles...all in his weight class.

Trinidad was lighter...but one of the baddest men on the planet.

Oscar was lighter...but again...one of the better boxers out there of name & thinking that Tarver was a calculated move doesn't come in to play for me. He beat Jones twice & he beat Johnson...he was the best at 175lbs & Hopkins beat him.

You can sit there & tear into anyone's record...but as you do that...again...I bring into play Oscar. Lost his previous fight to Hopkins...lost to Sturm (IWO)...lost to Mosley...all great fighters...but then went on to destroy Mayorga...who many said was a dangerous task to a man that was outside the ring for 2 years fwockin off & promoting...but Oscar did indeed destroy him...many say that was calculated...as many bring up of other things in boxing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ender

And what about the names you didn't mention ? Robert Allen 3 times is not impressive . IF you can't beat Allen's a** bad enough the first or second time , what is the problem ? O0

---

What about the names I didn't mention? Allen was a safe bet to secure the Oscar fight. The first fight was a no contest because Hopkins was pushed out of the ring by Mills Lane.

There's no problem wonder why the rematch. Allen was a tough guy...you might not see it that way...but sorry he was.

The rubber match...again...safe bet...but mission accomplished. Hopkins ko'd a never before ko'd Oscar & he beat the piss out of Tarver...something that the great Roy Jones Jr could not do...those are facts that can't be scrutinized under any opinions...yours, mine, or any others.

Allen was a safe bet but how about Hopkins Echols 3?

But what did those men accomplish at Lt Heavy and Middle other than lose to Hop and other champs they faced ?

Look, I don't want to get into a debate about Hops opposition. There were tough guys there and I agree most just weren't following the division BUT , after Tito , he should have secured his defense status like he did ( though Carl Daniels was a dubiosu choice IMO . Funny hopw the fans jumped all over Taylor for wantiung a hometown defense instead of Winky but Hop gets to have Daniels no questions asked ) .

Tito and Oscar started at 140 and 130 resepctively . They were threats in hype only . Tito moreso but it was evident in teh ring that his power alone would not work against the bigger , natural middle /lt hvy Hopkins .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

Allen was a safe bet but how about Hopkins Echols 3?

---

There wasn't one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ender

But what did those men accomplish at Lt Heavy and Middle other than lose to Hop and other champs they faced ?

---

They were either on their way up or they were top men until Hopkins got them.

Kind of like what you said about Joppy...losing his credibility after getting beaten by Tito.

I don't follow the lines like that because they curve to suit a bit too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ender

Look, I don't want to get into a debate about Hops opposition. There were tough guys there and I agree most just weren't following the division BUT , after Tito , he should have secured his defense status like he did ( though Carl Daniels was a dubiosu choice IMO . Funny hopw the fans jumped all over Taylor for wantiung a hometown defense instead of Winky but Hop gets to have Daniels no questions asked ) .

---

The debate of Hopkins opp is always subject to opinion...but he still beat those men & he still did something that no one else has or probably will in the nest 10-15 years.

The thing is...you say that you don't want to debate about his opp...but you do...throwing in Carl Daniels...but you push out the fact of beating Tito & Oscar below.

That's trying to discredit his oppostion.

Nothing wrong with Taylor wanting a hometown defense...I have no problem with that as I kind of believed in Taylor before seeing him fight actual opposition...but we really shouldn't go into to Taylor's opposition before Bernard...you'd see more than 2 men on the way up with Taylor in 24 fights wouldn't you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ender

Tito and Oscar started at 140 and 130 resepctively . They were threats in hype only . Tito moreso but it was evident in teh ring that his power alone would not work against the bigger , natural middle /lt hvy Hopkins .

---

Oscar & Tito were more than just hype but if you measure Hopkins career only by those two...no offense...but I have to lump you into the group of people that didn't follow the 160lb division that Hopkins fought...again...no offense.

Tito broke down on power against Hopkins...but he faltered just like he did against Oscar & Wright...fighters that had a game plan & a good defensive craft.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

Allen was a safe bet but how about Hopkins Echols 3?

---

There wasn't one.

---

I was asking you why didn't they go with that one instead?

i think yes he should of. he could of fought fighters like roy jones and lacy who he would of defeated.

Im not sure if he should of becuase i think he was doing brilliantly at middle as a king. Im more then happy with how Bernards career has panned out other then the Taylor fights obviously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Im not sure if he should of becuase i think he was doing brilliantly at middle as a king. Im more then happy with how Bernards career has panned out other then the Taylor fights obviously.

---

:coolclick: Well said.

I don't understand how some people here still cant give B-HOP credit and respect. He accomplished a lot and IMO he is great fighter and future HOF. He could of move up in weight long time ago but didn't so what??? Big deal i don't think so,he moved for his last fight and destroyed Tarver the best man in LHW and doing that he kill two birds with one stone like Wack posted. Again nobody know what would of happen if RJJ fought B-HOP second time,fight never happened so we could only predict like I would post B-HOP would of won or someone like RJJ fan would easy win for RJJ. Anyway he should stay retired he doesn't need to prove anything he is already HOF. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majesty

Allen was a safe bet but how about Hopkins Echols 3?

---

There wasn't one.

---

I was asking you why didn't they go with that one instead?

---

My mistake.

Did you see either one of the fights? Hopkins beat him...even with the throw down manuever he beat him soundly over 12 & then dropped him in 10 the second time. No use in that & the fact that Echols got his ass handed to him twice in the meantime, once by Mundine & then he got TKO'd by Ikeke, pretty much ruled him out completely.

Hopkins & Echols had a serious hate on for each other & I seriously doubt that Bernard wanted to help Echols earn another cent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sillent killer

I don't understand how some people here still cant give B-HOP credit and respect. He accomplished a lot and IMO he is great fighter and future HOF. He could of move up in weight long time ago but didn't so what??? Big deal i don't think so,he moved for his last fight and destroyed Tarver the best man in LHW and doing that he kill two birds with one stone like Wack posted. Again nobody know what would of happen if RJJ fought B-HOP second time,fight never happened so we could only predict like I would post B-HOP would of won or someone like RJJ fan would easy win for RJJ. Anyway he should stay retired he doesn't need to prove anything he is already HOF. ;)

---

:coolclick: Well said.

Agreed on the RJJ BHop rematch...no one knows what would have happened...but had Hopkins got up for Jones in the rematch like he did against Tarver this go round...Jones would have been stopped...I really do believe that.

I was very surprised that Tarver wasn't stopped. God knows he should have been...looking at his face.

Ooooooooooooooooooooh man damn!

B-Hop should have at least gone up to 168 to fight Toney or Calzaghe but he had a defense streak going so I don't mind him staying at 160 but he fought some attrocious boxers there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

B-Hop should have at least gone up to 168 to fight Toney or Calzaghe but he had a defense streak going so I don't mind him staying at 160 but he fought some attrocious boxers there

---

as well as some really good ones......you can't rule a division for over 10 years with 20 title defences and just get by by fighting hacks......I wish B-HOP would have stepped up and fought Joe C.....but B-HOP wanted to follow the career of his favorite fighter and go for the LTHW belt instead.....he left behind a HOF legacy.......

Hopkins traveled a near perfect career. I think his timing for moving to light heavyweight was perfect.