Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by bilbo
Actually watching the clinic Barrera put on against Juarez on Saturday has me thinking the exact opposite.
If the two meet again, Barrera stays on the outside, boxes behind his jab and keeps Pacquio at bay to win a 12 round decision, kind of like the first Pacman Morales fight.
Disagree,Morales boxed beautifully but he also went to war ALOT,I don't think you can fight Manny and not go to war for the whole fight and that's when the question marks are raised about MAB,can he straighten Pac out with a few shots? Does he still have enough fire left? I'm not so sure but NO WAY does he beat Pac the way he did Juarez.
I didn't say he would beat him as easily as he beat Juarez but he could beat him the way Morales won the first fight.
Pacman is a handful no doubt, but if anyone can frustrate and tie him up it has to be Barrera. He did it to perfection against Naseem all those years ago and he did it brilliantly to Juarez on Staurday night, showing that he adapts to a fighter probably better than anyone since Suger Ray Leonard.
If they do meet again I fancy Barrera to have figured Pacman out and to box brilliantly as I said above to win a UD.
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
You wonder if Pacman had this many fan boys before he won the rematch with Morales.
Bunch of band Wagon Jumpers...
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Actually watching the clinic Barrera put on against Juarez on Saturday has me thinking the exact opposite.
If the two meet again, Barrera stays on the outside, boxes behind his jab and keeps Pacquio at bay to win a 12 round decision, kind of like the first Pacman Morales fight.
Disagree,Morales boxed beautifully but he also went to war ALOT,I don't think you can fight Manny and not go to war for the whole fight and that's when the question marks are raised about MAB,can he straighten Pac out with a few shots? Does he still have enough fire left? I'm not so sure but NO WAY does he beat Pac the way he did Juarez.
I didn't say he would beat him as easily as he beat Juarez but he could beat him the way Morales won the first fight.
Pacman is a handful no doubt, but if anyone can frustrate and tie him up it has to be Barrera. He did it to perfection against Naseem all those years ago and he did it brilliantly to Juarez on Staurday night, showing that he adapts to a fighter probably better than anyone since Suger Ray Leonard.
If they do meet again I fancy Barrera to have figured Pacman out and to box brilliantly as I said above to win a UD.
Naseem was way way to open and not as fast and furiosu as Manny. Juarez is no Pacman,I understand what you are saying and I will TOTALLY be cheering for MAB,but I don't think he has what it takes ,I think he will be boxing well but Manny will catch him and lay the wood on him. I think Morales,if he comes in 100% can and will beat Manny.
To beat Manny,you need boxing skills,great chin and defence and you HAVE HAVE HAVE to be able to go to war,like JMM and EM did,even though they controlled the action totaly,they didn't fend off Pac,there was always spurts of action,and I don't think MAB has it anymore. When did he even last go to war for prolonged periods?
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
I love how people are so enamored with Manny. Don't get me wrong, he is a tremendous athelete.....but people have always been way to quick to title a boxer "Unbeatable" because of his POWER. Pac has had ONE impressive win recently....against a worn out and strategically flawed Morales. He clearly lost his first match with Eric, had a draw with Marquez (who even if you disagree with the draw decision....made it a very close fight after 3 early knockdowns). He beat a C level fighter whose name I have already forgotten before the rematch with Morales. And before he eventually prevailed in front of his home country, he got wobbled by a fighter who was clearly not in his best weight division in Larios. Yet many people on this board make it seem like he will just walk over guys like Morales, Marquez, and Barrerra (not to mention anyone else he fights). But Manny is far from being a complete BOXER, not to mention the incredible amount of disctractions in his life. He relies primarily on his physical gifts and pretty much knows how to fight ONE way. Barrerra is a master boxer....and for those who don't think he has the streak in him to go to "war" with his opponents....you are clearly mistaken. He just isn't stupid to make that his entire gameplan. He is an incredibly smart, skilled, and when needed...a ferocious fighter. He knows how to prepare and adapt...while Manny doesn't. All this is not to say Barrerra, Morales, and Marquez WILL beat Manny....but they certainly can.
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
First of all I am not enamored of pac he at times relies on nothing more than a quick 1-2 but he did impress me in the morales rematch he fought a more multi dimensional fight, (oh and pacdog name has nothing to do with me liking pacquio) also I think barrera is a great fighter but to me a legend tag has always been a bit of a stretch. Pac basically hit him with the same combination all night long, for all of the talk of barreras great boxing ability and defense he got hit time and time again with the same combo, you beat a subpar fighter like that not a great one. Pac has decent upper body movement ala a poor mans mike tyson, this is why he makes most mexican fighters look bad, mexican fighters in general are tough as hell, usuall hit hard and break you down, pac has good side to side movement not even great and he makes mexican fighters look bad.
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
Barrerra was no where near 100% in that fight. I am not one to normally buy into excuses for a loss....but with all the things that happened to Marco going into that fight...I can see why he din't fight the way he normally does. Pac was relentless in that fight...to his credit. Let's see him do that again to a fit, undistracted, and focused Barrerra...and I will give him his due. You say he "makes mexican fighters look bad".....I guess we are watching different fights. He LOST against Morales in their first match, had a DRAW against Marquez, and beat a subpar Barrerra. Morales can beat him again if he isn't completely shot from all of his wars and fights smart, Marquez deserves a rematch, and Barrera is much too good of a fighter to not have a chance.
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
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Originally Posted by GAME
I think if you look at their careers ( Mab , pac and morales ) youl see that Barrera gets it right second time round , Juarez 1 was an off night but he got it right in the return , he beat Morales twice over and deserved to get the decision against Jones.
Morales has been in decline for a while . At 80 % he had what it took to beat Pac but after a beating from Raheem he had nothing left against Pac the 2nd time . His only chance in the rubber match is if Pac adopts the wrong tactics and tries to outbox him like he did with Larios .
Pac is receiving alot of credit based on that 1 win over a washed up Morales but look at his career . He has had mixed results recently , draw with Marquez , loss to Erik Nc with Sanchez and earlier on his carrer hes been k.o'd a couple times by nobodies . In his last fight he was wobbled by a featherfisted superbantam and couldnt put him away . Hes by no means this unbeatable monster people make out
Putting it into context Barrera should have the tools to prove the last Pac fight was an off night for him and for those who dont believe it , go and bet big on Pac
finally, some one with some GAME!!!! Pac is not superman!! He might get KTFO!!! if it happened once it could happen again....
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
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Originally Posted by pacdog
Barrera is going to have to fight pac like he did rocky juarez just to survive, hes got no shot in a rematch, none
:coolclick: Agreed.
Pac beats Barrera like my granny used to beat that old rug that she hung out to dry on the cloth's line.
You gotdam right I lives in the south!! ;D
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
Mabey I kind of phrased that bad, he doesnt make mexican fighter look bad but he gives them problems because his style is unusual at that weight, great mexcian fighters usually overwhel there opponents with strength toughness and punching power, either another mexican fighter beats them or possibly a great boxer. Pac has great power but has decent head movement upper body movemnet, kind of like a stripped down little mike tyson. Mexican fighters dont possess those skills in huge abundance, you dont see fighters like that at those weights, hes not unbeatable thats not what im saying he possess skills different than what mexican fighters are used to, did you ever see barrerea dominated like that? Pacstood right there but barrera missed alot, hell latino fighters in general, I always said if tito trinidad had head movement like mike tyson hed be awesome,
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
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Originally Posted by pacdog
Barrera is going to have to fight pac like he did rocky juarez just to survive, hes got no shot in a rematch, none
:coolclick: Agreed.
Pac beats Barrera like my granny used to beat that old rug that she hung out to dry on the cloth's line.
You gotdam right I lives in the south!! ;D
that's a pretty bold statement.....I know...comin from on the BOLDEST guys out there...but bold nonetheless....
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
In days of old knights were bold and did there load in the middle of the road and walked away contented ;D
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
Pacdog, you might be referring to how Mexican fighter have fought in the past. And many years ago Marco also fought in the classic brawling style of many mexican fighters. But he changed, as have many other Mexican fighters, in recent years. Barrerra, Marquez, etc.....are brilliant technical fighters and they are also able to mix it up. Manny can't. He relies on his strength and while he has decent head and upper body movement....he is no where near the class of guys like Barrerra and Marquez when it comes to overall skill. You keep saying how he dominated Barrerra....and I counter by saying that Barrerra was not himself that night...hence why he fought so poorly and decided to just exchange with a big puncher like Pac. He WILL NOT make that same mistake twice. He has PROVEN he can adapt and make adjustments....while with Pac that is no certainty. But in general...for people just to say it will be an easy fight for Manny....is ridiculous. You never discount great champions who still have something left in the tank....and Marco has certainly showed he has something left. I guess we will find out IF Pac beats Morales.
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
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Originally Posted by zhubin
I love how people are so enamored with Manny. Don't get me wrong, he is a tremendous athelete.....but people have always been way to quick to title a boxer "Unbeatable" because of his POWER. Pac has had ONE impressive win recently....against a worn out and strategically flawed Morales. He clearly lost his first match with Eric, had a draw with Marquez (who even if you disagree with the draw decision....made it a very close fight after 3 early knockdowns). He beat a C level fighter whose name I have already forgotten before the rematch with Morales. And before he eventually prevailed in front of his home country, he got wobbled by a fighter who was clearly not in his best weight division in Larios. Yet many people on this board make it seem like he will just walk over guys like Morales, Marquez, and Barrerra (not to mention anyone else he fights). But Manny is far from being a complete BOXER, not to mention the incredible amount of disctractions in his life. He relies primarily on his physical gifts and pretty much knows how to fight ONE way. Barrerra is a master boxer....and for those who don't think he has the streak in him to go to "war" with his opponents....you are clearly mistaken. He just isn't stupid to make that his entire gameplan. He is an incredibly smart, skilled, and when needed...a ferocious fighter. He knows how to prepare and adapt...while Manny doesn't. All this is not to say Barrerra, Morales, and Marquez WILL beat Manny....but they certainly can.
Agree with alot of your points, well put 8)
For many of the points mentioned, i go for Barrera in this one ( if it happens, as how can you rule out EM in any bout! ). If you want an example of MAB's heart and desire, ya just got to look at his trilogy with EM ( granted a few years ago now ). MABs wants this sooo bad it hurts, ya could tell that from his post fight interview last saturday imo 8)
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
I have to disagree with you when say marquez and barrera have better skill. Manny has side to side upper body head movement, I have not seen a mexican ever with good head movement, manny doesnt box he fights attacking but not like a mexican fighter, more like mike tyson he is elusive while attacking, most mexican fighters come at you straight up, quite honestly most are not used to a high level of skill in head movement Manny thought he would overwhelm marquez and to me it looked like he had something wrong, I think you can credit marquez for that to some degree. I understand what you guys are saying about barrera being 100 percent, but in qll honesty i think pac has improved, I when everyone was saying how great pac was thought he strictly shot in with a quick 1-2, he in the victory over morales showed a bit more and was impressed, however barrera got hit with that same 1-2 all night, you dont beat a great fighter with a 1-2, he fought tatically the wrong fight, barrera gets frustrated when he gets tagged and wants to fight, he boxes in recent years but fights when pressured, hes gonna throw punches with pac because hes not good enough to strictly outbox him like he did juarez who hits hard but has no speeed at all.
Re: pacman will devastate barrera worse next time
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Originally Posted by pacdog
I have to disagree with you when say marquez and barrera have better skill. Manny has side to side upper body head movement, I have not seen a mexican ever with good head movement, manny doesnt box he fights attacking but not like a mexican fighter, more like mike tyson he is elusive while attacking, most mexican fighters come at you straight up, quite honestly most are not used to a high level of skill in head movement Manny thought he would overwhelm marquez and to me it looked like he had something wrong, I think you can credit marquez for that to some degree. I understand what you guys are saying about barrera being 100 percent, but in qll honesty i think pac has improved, I when everyone was saying how great pac was thought he strictly shot in with a quick 1-2, he in the victory over morales showed a bit more and was impressed, however barrera got hit with that same 1-2 all night, you dont beat a great fighter with a 1-2, he fought tatically the wrong fight, barrera gets frustrated when he gets tagged and wants to fight, he boxes in recent years but fights when pressured, hes gonna throw punches with pac because hes not good enough to strictly outbox him like he did juarez who hits hard but has no speeed at all.
Totally agree. Barrera was at his best and was too proud to admit that he lost to a better fighter.His silence about his fight with Pacquaio is a silent testimony of his "fear" to fight Pac again. I believe he still does not know how to win over Pacman and is afraid of losing again that's why his group will not even mention rematch with Pac.
He was too humiliated when his corner forced him to stop the fight. But what was more humiliating was "IT WAS HIM WHO SUGGESTED TO HIS CORNER TO STOP THE FIGHT".It was too much already for him. He was like a punching bag waiting to burst.
