if foreman unretired to fight valuev...

Mate...it's Jameel McCline. The guy who lost to Zuri Lawrence.

You know, if Valuev was out beating the Klitschkos and Toneys of the world I would see how the argument could be made. But he's getting gift decisions over Ruiz and Donald. Now...if you honestly think that Ruiz and Donald were in the ring with Foreman in the 70's that they would even survive 3 rounds....you're wrong. Plain and simple. Heavyweights haven't evolved nearly as much as the lower weights. And boxing evolves nowhere near as fast as any other sport because it's not a sport that is almost solely reliant on conditioning.

Ok here's your chance to say I'm on crack.
I think that a boxer like Chris Byrd today is twice the master boxer of Ali in his prime. Larry Donald is a very good boxer and probably Ali's equal in overall physical ability,speed,jab,ring generalship etc. The thing of course that sets individuals apart is character,which some guys,like McCline are lacking in. Ruiz is a frustrating fighter whose style i personally hate but has proven himself against the top guys for a long time,much to my dismay. Guys like Joe Frazier if he fought todays fighters wouldn't make the top 20.
Please keep a look out for my

"Valuev's record is better than Rocky Marciano's, post"
with accompanying opinion poll.

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Originally Posted by yoitsdan

:( foreman is really old, Valuev is in his prime, this thread is really irrelevant!

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Agreed

landmine you defended valuev on the other thread now there is nothing wrong with that but this is getting bit silly now  :-\ 90s foreman would beat valuev the foreman now would probably have a heart attack enuff said or maybe cook valuev some hamburgers :)

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Its very common for people to talk about the old days...in any sport.
The fact is that old atheletes could not compete with modern atheletes period. In any quantitative sport it is obvious. 100 yard dash,weight lifting etc. There is no question. It is resonable to assume that the same would hold true for other athletic events such as boxing.
I thought my argument was well expressed. Foreman was great against 5'10 frazier. Foreman was "big" at 217 pounds. He would be destroyed today. Maskaev,Rahman etc are all 245+ and much better all around boxers. Athletes are better conditioned,trained etc and there is a 1000 times larger pool of athletes competing for spots in professional sports. I think every top 10 fighter today would beat any fighter from the 60's. Thats why i dont usually get into these type of discussions. In the javalin throw in track and field they had to re-design the javalin because the athletes were throwing it so far it was landing in the stands! They would have had to make it a seperate event held outside of the stadiums! To say that some javelin gold medalist from 1940 would beat the best in the world today is ridiculous. The numbers dont lie. I like to see current fighters getting the credit and recognision that they deserve. I laugh when people snort at minor belts like NABF or something. Try and win one, see how easy it is. Hey I may be wrong. But teh more i defend Valuev...the more I like him! Hope he proves me right agains Jameel Mcline!

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athletics is totally different they train hard and they have steroids :) hws today dont train at all and there all fat name me one hw now thats in really good shape ??

athletics is totally different they train hard and they have steroids hws today dont train at all and there all fat
name me one hw now thats in really good shape ??


Shannon briggs
Rocky
James Toney
see their pics below

George still hits hard and im pretty sure he's one good shot away from becoming the oldest heavyweight champion again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Ok here's your chance to say I'm on crack.
I think that a boxer like Chris Byrd today is twice the master boxer of Ali in his prime. Larry Donald is a very good boxer and probably Ali's equal in overall physical ability,speed,jab,ring generalship etc. The thing of course that sets individuals apart is character,which some guys,like McCline are lacking in. Ruiz is a frustrating fighter whose style i personally hate but has proven himself against the top guys for a long time,much to my dismay. Guys like Joe Frazier if he fought todays fighters wouldn't make the top 20.
Please keep a look out for my

"Valuev's record is better than Rocky Marciano's, post"
with accompanying opinion poll.

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:sadclick:

WTF are you on!? Byrd a better fighter than ali? (In the words of the little nicky rendition of hitler in hell) Are you Snirious!? Byrd has gotten man handled in the ring b4. He is a two time world champion for the following reasons: 1st time: Vitali quit and that is the only way byrd wins that fight because he was dominated on points and couldn't ko vitali if vitali let him have 12 rounds of unblocked shots. 2nd time: he out boxed an old holyfield who is probably a beter fighter today than he was back when he lost to byrd. Ali avenged all of his losses and was the first three time world champion when the title was unified meaning he beat the best to get the belt. The only thing Larry Donald was equal to with ali is skin color and nation of birth and that is it.

Joe frazier in his prime would whoop ruiz's boring ass. In fact frazier would be a very high ranked fighter today maybe not undisputed champ but close. He was actually in good shape, had a mean left hook, and went to the body alot. You say frustrating, i say ruiz just grabs onto people until they lose interest in putting up a fight.

Comparing valuev to marciano isn't even a valid argument from any possible view. Marciano while he lacked in technical greatness made up for it with great power. Valuev while he lacks in technical greatness makes up for it with his guaranteed induction into a museum as the only living proof of the existance of a yeti.

jimmy young is better fight than chris byrd atleast he beat foreman got draw with shavers and gave ali and norton two tough fights with both decision could of gone his way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by landmine950

athletics is totally different they train hard and they have steroids hws today dont train at all and there all fat
name me one hw now thats in really good shape ??


Shannon briggs
Rocky
James Toney
see their pics below

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that pic of briggs looks like its 10 years old this is him now

http://www.13thround.com/siteimages/briggs04.jpg

bit of difference now wouldnt you say :-\

Wha about RJJ?

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Originally Posted by yoitsdan

Wha about RJJ?

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you mean hw in shape ?? if you do mate he doesnt really class as hw he only fought there once

I think every top 10 fighter today would beat any fighter from the 60's. Thats why i dont usually get into these type of discussions.Same here mate

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Originally Posted by Kel

I think every top 10 fighter today would beat any fighter from the 60's. Thats why i dont usually get into these type of discussions.Same here mate

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you gotta be kidding so shannon briggs valuev and wlad would beat joe fraizer cassius clay and sonny liston ??

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kel

I think every top 10 fighter today would beat any fighter from the 60's. Thats why i dont usually get into these type of discussions.Same here mate

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you gotta be kidding so shannon briggs valuev andwlad would beat joe fraizer cassius clay and sonny liston ??

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In my opinion it wouldn't even be a contest. Only Ali because of his style would have any chance of not looking pathetic against even the smaller heavies today.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kel

I think every top 10 fighter today would beat any fighter from the 60's. Thats why i dont usually get into these type of discussions.Same here mate

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you gotta be kidding so shannon briggs valuev andwlad would beat joe fraizer cassius clay and sonny liston ??

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In my opinion it wouldn't even be a contest. Only Ali because of his style would have any chance of not looking pathetic against even the smaller heavies today.

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lol muhammad ali is one of the most gifted boxers ever he fought best opp and he would wipe the floor with the hopeless hws today