Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Ok, there may be a lot of things people don't like about Mayweather, but what is undeniable is that he's undefeated, he's beaten everyone who has been put in front of him, and he's one of the most flashy, impressive and dominant fighters ever to lace up a glove. There are SO many things I don't like about his character, and more recently his choice of opponents, but I can forgive him for the latter because it has become apparent that all things led to ODLH, his legacy, his achievements, and more importantly the man himself. His career his mirrored oscar's and if he can beat him then i think he has topped him as one of the greatest. And I hate the guy, but its the truth.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
I personally don't think ODLH is at the end of his career unless Mayweather ends it. He still has his speed, power, and chin with a great trainer... I could see ODLH going until he was late 30's early 40's if he so desired, and if he changed his style which he is doing(better defense, more well rounded).
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
floyd has talent but is soooo F****** overated...
he never has broken a strong chinned fighter,
pac has.
he has never whooped a master boxer,
pac has.
he never takes risk like pac and winky do.
pbf is a opportunist, he will take a win the easiest way he can and say his the best ever.
uhh. gatti chico castillo judah baldomir...those are his best oppenents...their average numbers of lost is about 4...pbf is a fruad damn most fans still marvel over this guys performance over inconsistent fighterss...and pac and winky whoops future h.o.f and legends
F*** his undefeated pampered record, he aint close to greatness at all...pac and winky is, its bullshyt why most people still argue his p4p king...his next fight is against odlh and if he wins people says he will cement his spot at p4p tops...hell no, odlh is his first legendary name...pac and winky already has atleast three...plus odlh is not suddenly the great oscar jst because he k.oed mayorga, remember oscar should of lost to sturm and got k.oed by bhop.
pbf has talents but lacks the hunger and heart of a true great p4p king should have.
I agree with you about Pac, but Floyd is not Pac. Floyd doesn't have a bunch of power past 140. He's basically a blown up light welter and he's fighting in the higher weight classes. No one gives Floyd any credit for that or for anything he does. When he fought Gatti, several people on here claimed that Floyd has never felt that type of power and would be knocked out, when he fought Judah, several people on here claimed that Floyd had made a big mistake and would be knocked out. It's all the same, everyone talks S***, but then when Floyd wins, no one gives him credit for anything.
You also have to look at the fact that Mayweather doesn't really have a lot of great competition either. Hatton hasn't wanted to fight Floyd since 2005, only now is Cotto emerging as a good contender at 147, Tony is just an average fighter who almost lost to Clottey. After these guys, there really is no one for Floyd to get glory fighting. If Floyd beats Hatton, half of you would be on here saying that you knew Floyd would win, and the other half would just jump on another bandwagon. If Floyd beats Cotto, half of you would say Cotto wasn't ready, and the other would just jump on another bandwagon. If Floyd beats Tony, half of you would say "Why is Floyd fighting bums? Tony who??" and the other half would just jump on another bandwagon.
Floyd isn't just racking up victories, he is simply dominating boxers. It's not Floyd's fault there aren't a bunch of elite level fighters at 140 or 147 to make fights with. Give the guy some credit. To say he doesn't have heart when everyone who follows boxing knows that nobody outside of Hatton trains as hard or harder than Floyd Mayweather is wrong. What should Floyd do??? Build a time machine so he could go fight SRL and Hearns? Floyd's doing the best with what's around him.
BTW, Manny has beat people at his best weight classes. Manny has been impressive but right now he just hasn't done enough in boxing as a whole. Manny is actually taller than Hatton and has a longer reach by a large margin. Until Manny moves up to 135 and possibly 140. I'm not moving him above Floyd on the pound for pound list. Floyd is a guy at less than two years ago we were wondering if he was a true light welterweight and now he's fighting for the junior middleweight championship. That's amazing. You can talk all the S*** you want about Floyd, but I'm gonna give the guy some credit.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by albsur2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
floyd has talent but is soooo F****** overated...
he never has broken a strong chinned fighter,
pac has.
he has never whooped a master boxer,
pac has.
he never takes risk like pac and winky do.
pbf is a opportunist, he will take a win the easiest way he can and say his the best ever.
uhh. gatti chico castillo judah baldomir...those are his best oppenents...their average numbers of lost is about 4...pbf is a fruad damn most fans still marvel over this guys performance over inconsistent fighterss...and pac and winky whoops future h.o.f and legends
F*** his undefeated pampered record, he aint close to greatness at all...pac and winky is, its bullshyt why most people still argue his p4p king...his next fight is against odlh and if he wins people says he will cement his spot at p4p tops...hell no, odlh is his first legendary name...pac and winky already has atleast three...plus odlh is not suddenly the great oscar jst because he k.oed mayorga, remember oscar should of lost to sturm and got k.oed by bhop.
pbf has talents but lacks the hunger and heart of a true great p4p king should have.
I agree with you about Pac, but Floyd is not Pac. Floyd doesn't have a bunch of power past 140. He's basically a blown up light welter and he's fighting in the higher weight classes. No one gives Floyd any credit for that or for anything he does. When he fought Gatti, several people on here claimed that Floyd has never felt that type of power and would be knocked out, when he fought Judah, several people on here claimed that Floyd had made a big mistake and would be knocked out. It's all the same, everyone talks S***, but then when Floyd wins, no one gives him credit for anything.
You also have to look at the fact that Mayweather doesn't really have a lot of great competition either. Hatton hasn't wanted to fight Floyd since 2005, only now is Cotto emerging as a good contender at 147, Tony is just an average fighter who almost lost to Clottey. After these guys, there really is no one for Floyd to get glory fighting. If Floyd beats Hatton, half of you would be on here saying that you knew Floyd would win, and the other half would just jump on another bandwagon. If Floyd beats Cotto, half of you would say Cotto wasn't ready, and the other would just jump on another bandwagon. If Floyd beats Tony, half of you would say "Why is Floyd fighting bums? Tony who??" and the other half would just jump on another bandwagon.
Floyd isn't just racking up victories, he is simply dominating boxers. It's not Floyd's fault there aren't a bunch of elite level fighters at 140 or 147 to make fights with. Give the guy some credit. To say he doesn't have heart when everyone who follows boxing knows that nobody outside of Hatton trains as hard or harder than Floyd Mayweather is wrong. What should Floyd do??? Build a time machine so he could go fight SRL and Hearns? Floyd's doing the best with what's around him.
BTW, Manny has beat people at his best weight classes. Manny has been impressive but right now he just hasn't done enough in boxing as a whole. Manny is actually taller than Hatton and has a longer reach by a large margin. Until Manny moves up to 135 and possibly 140. I'm not moving him above Floyd on the pound for pound list. Floyd is a guy at less than two years ago we were wondering if he was a true light welterweight and now he's fighting for the junior middleweight championship. That's amazing. You can talk all the S*** you want about Floyd, but I'm gonna give the guy some credit.
you sound like your trying to be fair for pbf. but your missing a few point, yes true there aren't any true elite in welterweight unlike pac, pac has mab em and jmm. and pac fought them consecutively, pbf don't have great around him but the problem is we know hatton cotto tony aren't as good so why don't pbf stop at welterweight and whoop them...why don't he run his mouth the right way and call out everyone and accept every challenge like pac does...yes give him credit he started at 130 now his up to 154 but on his way up he has left countless of names he should of fought instead of taking out guys like mitchell or gatti, I don't know about you but I never heard anyone say gatti would knock him out, hell even gattis camp told gatti not to fight pbf because clearly gatti thought he was better then he actually is. if pbf takes out hatton and cotto and ends there undefeated record then I will give pbf credit, but he keeps saying his an all time great but continues to fight inconsistent fighters with lost average of 3 or 4, I will bash him more and more because he deserves it.
about pac, he started at about 105, his now at 130. I don't think he needs to move up to 135 specially up to 140 because he already has k.o mab and em like no other fighter in the world can.plus right when he step up at 126 he whoop mab and at 130 he took on em and keeps taking on anybody he thinks is great, something pbf should do, hell he should have it easier then pac because he doesn't have a mab or jmm or em around his division so why not take on every single hype name like hatton cotto tony williams, nope he rathers jump weights pick easiest opppenent vulnerable to his style...a win over oscar is nothing, bhop k.o him and sturm beat him before that so pbf should win and win easy. at 154 pbf will have it even easier if there was no elite at welter there is defenitly noun at 154 besides past prime oscar if he still is an elite now.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Floyd's undefeated in 37 fights. Floyd has 24 knockouts. Floyd has either battered or humiliated everyone that he's fought. Floyd has defeated Castillo, Hernandez, Corrales, Manfredy, Juuko, & N'dou when they were still on the upswing of their careers. Those are all names & were names of merit before being dispatched. In the years to follow in Floyd's selective match making that he is so ruthlessly criticized...but be that as it may...he again dispatched & humiliated Corley, Judah, Gatti, & Baldomir.
He is next set to face Oscar...who many are now saying is old...washed up...or at the end of his road...blah blah blah.
Manny Pacquiao in 48 fights has 3 losses & 2 draws. Manny has knocked out 34 men. He has beaten Morales, Larios, Barrera, Hussein, & a handul of no hopers & that is that.
He was up until recent date lacking of a full array of punches & still an open book. He has only recently begun to get acclaim for his abilities due to his knockout over Barrera & Morales.
The same Morales that no one gave a shot in hell of beating Pac...due to the fact that he was shot...the same Morales that beat him from pillar to post, corner to corner. The same washed up Morales that he knocked out later.
I'm sorry...but it's you who seems to be missing the point here true p4p king. Fair is fair when you want to pick apart people's favorite fighters.
One could say that Barrera was at the end of the road, one could say that Morales was truely washed up, one could say Pac was so one dimensional that he couldn't stop Marquez whom he had dropped 3 times, one could say many things in trying to tear apart Manny Pacquiao...just like you always do with Mayweather...but that would make one seem...a bit haterish.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
PBF-awesomely talented but over rated himself,hence the harsh critics. Great fighter but resume leaves alot to be desired imo. Beat good fighters at the beginning of his career,but Oscar aside,has not fought someone who is really dangerous in a while. Like I said,I am in awe of his talents but guys like Sharmba,Judah,Baldo,Gatti,Brusseles are not what all time great resumes are made up of. That's just my opinion.
I agree with you there but do you not sometimes think that maybe there is not enough 'good to great' fighters out there at the moment? He gets slated for not fighting Margarito, yet if he beat him folk would complain that Margarito is slow and predictable. If he beat Hatton or Cotto folk would just say 'well i told you both of them were over hyped'. Now if he beats Oscar folk are going to put it down to old age and ring inactivity on Oscar's part.
As no fighter around today seems to be close to perfect, their most obvious flaw(s) seems to get picked upon as soon as a possibly great fighter beats them (mayweather for example). Therefore a fighter like Mayweather will struggle to be recognised as a great in the present time.
In years to come will any of the fighters of this current generation be remembered as greats? Because if Mayweather isn't, then i cannot think of any other fighter that will be.
No,but if Mayweather could beat Margarito,Hatton and Cotto plus one other name then NO ONE could say anything,he would be defeating his nearest rivals and threats. These would be fights against guys who are not old/on the slide/mentally weak etc whoch would describe PBF's opponents' for the last few years.
Castillo,Hernandez,Chavez,Ndou,Gatti,Corrales,etc a few good names there but ALL Time Great? Hell no..add Hatton,Cotto and Margarito and it looks 20 times better already.
He has missed out on fighting Spadafora,Tszyu,Casamayor etc etc for one reason or another and at 140 and 147,no one on the planet can say he fought the best in those divisions,no way. He's too guilty of handpicking opponents.
I'm sorry but for me,he's wasting his talent. If I had that much talent,I 'd fight Cotto,Hatton,Margarito etc shut up the critics and earn $$$$$$$$$ in the process+ a greater legacy than he has now..
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
pac does have 3 lost 2 draws, pbf has nothing but wins,
but look are you still gonna rate pbf p4p king if he does lose to oscar come may 07, compare pacs 3 lost and 2 draws to pbfs 1 lost, your not getting it, if pbf lose once his out of the picture, pac gets top spot even though he has 3 lost 2 draws, think about it, think hard why is it pac a fighter who has more lost and more draws rank higher then pbf who only has one lost, because the difference is in level of oppenent and room for growth, despite pacs lost and draw to em and jmm he remained near the top just like mab even after pac beat him he went from third to just 5th. if pbf lose to oscar clearly he will drop atleast to third giving pac first and winky second...
how can I be missing the point if I'm the one with a point plus I'm open to facts, yes pac was one demensional but he has room for growth and in the process he is testing elite levels, and now this very day pac is and has set a new elite level, he was battered and bruce and consecutively took on the best and now even with 3 lost 2 draws he has a case for being p4p king, meaning his lost and draws don't mean any thing now because how clear it is that the pac of today is a whole new level and would of crush every past oppenent worst and the fighters who he lost or drew too...
see p4p ranking is not all about a fighters whole career, it is about how good he is now. so you can just look at their record.
as for pbf, how good is he really? I mean is he really that good, its not like he really just runs over oppenents, he look a little slower then usual against baldomir a guy that is very very slow compare to pbf...and in the first half of the fight with zab, pbf wasn't looking that talented, he was nearly drop and got beat to the punch a few times til zab gas out...and willaims did take out mitchell quicker then pbf did,..I mean why is it that pbf is our p4p but in his division guys like cotto hatton williams are getting hype and are undefeated too.
difference is pbf has talent but still leaves doubts because he doesn't take on only the best.and he never had that defining fight that gives him such an honorable spot, facts is he got top spot in the first place only because roy and bhop lost, is that deserving only because he has stayed undefeated, against inconsistent fighters recently
talk about no hope fighters, em and mab had more hope against pac then guys pbf has fought recently, names like mitchell gatti baldomir those are true no hope losers against pbf, so yup case close.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
No,but if Mayweather could beat Margarito,Hatton and Cotto plus one other name then NO ONE could say anything,he would be defeating his nearest rivals and threats. These would be fights against guys who are not old/on the slide/mentally weak etc whoch would describe PBF's opponents' for the last few years.
Castillo,Hernandez,Chavez,Ndou,Gatti,Corrales,etc a few good names there but ALL Time Great? Hell no..add Hatton,Cotto and Margarito and it looks 20 times better already.
He has missed out on fighting Spadafora,Tszyu,Casamayor etc etc for one reason or another and at 140 and 147,no one on the planet can say he fought the best in those divisions,no way. He's too guilty of handpicking opponents.
I'm sorry but for me,he's wasting his talent. If I had that much talent,I 'd fight Cotto,Hatton,Margarito etc shut up the critics and earn $$$$$$$$$ in the process+ a greater legacy than he has now..
The thing is...Cotto, Hatton, Margarito would add no more worth to Mayweather's name once a new batch came along.
It was the same thing with Corrales, then Chavez, & then Castillo back in the day when he blew them out.
Nothing Floyd can ever do will be enough. He's worked his ass off his entire career to get to the point that he is now...& finally he's got the one fight that he's always talked about wanting...Oscar...but now that he's here...all of a sudden...you got a buncha chumps rippin Oscar apart like he was dog meat...but the funny thing is...those same people that are hammering Oscar now...back up to their original posts & listen to what they were saying after he stomped Mayorga's ass.
It's a bit ridiculous, IWO.
Let me say this...& stop & think about it.
Floyd fights Cotto in a month or two & utterly shames him...the chumps come out in full force with statements such as "Cotto had beaten nobody & was nothing more than a hard hitter."
Floyd fight Hatton in a month or two & utterly shames him...the chumps come out in full force with statements such as "He beat a washed up Kostya & 40 other bums & was a protected Warren stable paper champ that had that one good night. If Floyd wants to impress me...fight Collazo...he beat Hatton anyway."
Floyd fight Margarito in a month or two & utterly shames him...the chumps come out in full force with statements such as "Margarito was nothing more than a one dimensional mexican fighter who already had 4 losses to some no namers too."
and so on & so on & so on down the line. That's the way it goes...that's the way it went back in the day with Floyd's career earlier on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
pac does have 3 lost 2 draws, pbf has nothing but wins,
but look are you still gonna rate pbf p4p king if he does lose to oscar come may 07, compare pacs 3 lost and 2 draws to pbfs 1 lost, your not getting it, if pbf lose once his out of the picture, pac gets top spot even though he has 3 lost 2 draws, think about it, think hard why is it pac a fighter who has more lost and more draws rank higher then pbf who only has one lost, because the difference is in level of oppenent and room for growth, despite pacs lost and draw to em and jmm he remained near the top just like mab even after pac beat him he went from third to just 5th. if pbf lose to oscar clearly he will drop atleast to third giving pac first and winky second...
Look true P4P king...that's a stupid question that shouldn't have even been asked.
If Floyd loses to Oscar...& he very well could...then no he would not be the P4P #1 fighter...common sense would dictate...but for some reason...that does not apply with you.
The difference in the level of opponent? Are you missing something upstairs...because honestly...I'm not the only one casting votes here on this P4P deal...so don't be such a sore loser over the fact...you can be blind to the facts all you want...but don't cry over them continously like this.
Pacquiao just lost to Morales...you keep forgetting that. He came back & defeated him & soundly so...but he did still lose. Mayweather is undefeated & has fought better opposition & win, lose, or draw against Oscar...he will still have fought the better opposition up to that time. Don't go trying to fool yourself by thinking that MAB, JMM, & Morales are better fighters than Oscar...because you will be sadly mistaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
how can I be missing the point if I'm the one with a point plus I'm open to facts, yes pac was one demensional but he has room for growth and in the process he is testing elite levels, and now this very day pac is and has set a new elite level, he was battered and bruce and consecutively took on the best and now even with 3 lost 2 draws he has a case for being p4p king, meaning his lost and draws don't mean any thing now because how clear it is that the pac of today is a whole new level and would of crush every past oppenent worst and the fighters who he lost or drew too...
Listen...you can harp on this all day long...but it's not going to change the fact of what I think.
You Pac fans are (with the exception of a handful of few thinkers) all like this.
I can say that Floyd could be beaten...I can say that if & when he is bested...ofcourse he would drop a spot...but I will not turn around full speed & dump on him like you constantly do now. It's silly...it shows lack of knowledge & lack of respect. What you say is not fact...you just run it so far into the ground that you begin to believe it is rightly so.
Mayweather's dossier reads just as well as Pac's, Wright's, or Hatton's...why because he has taken on game fighters & he is still undefeated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
see p4p ranking is not all about a fighters whole career, it is about how good he is now. so you can just look at their record.
Why is that...because you say it is so? To me...that's ridiculous. Really. If that is the case...then yes...look at how good Floyd is now...he's still undefeated...& even in his last 5 fights. Pacquiao is not...so as you are so fond of saying...CASE CLOSED!
But I'm not like that...everything has room for discussion...except with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
as for pbf, how good is he really? I mean is he really that good, its not like he really just runs over oppenents, he look a little slower then usual against baldomir a guy that is very very slow compare to pbf...and in the first half of the fight with zab, pbf wasn't looking that talented, he was nearly drop and got beat to the punch a few times til zab gas out...and willaims did take out mitchell quicker then pbf did,..I mean why is it that pbf is our p4p but in his division guys like cotto hatton williams are getting hype and are undefeated too.
If you have to ask how good Floyd is...then your'e blinded by your own spite & hate for the man.
It's quite amusing that you mention these things about Zab & Baldo. The thing is...if a man comes tearing across the mat & throwing punches one after the other...he's got your love...if he boxes & works out a gameplan...he's coming apart at the seams or not looking good.
Short sightedness.
As far as why he's P4P on the list...again...you seem to be missing the point...I didn't place on votes babe...so ask your fellow forum goers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
difference is pbf has talent but still leaves doubts because he doesn't take on only the best.and he never had that defining fight that gives him such an honorable spot, facts is he got top spot in the first place only because roy and bhop lost, is that deserving only because he has stayed undefeated, against inconsistent fighters recently
That is funny. That right does close the case with you for me. Never had a definging fight? He's had many defining moments...apparently...you just haven't watched all of Floyd's fights. Ofcourse he would pick up the mantle after the top P4P man lost...he was coming up. You really REALLY don't understand things to well do you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
talk about no hope fighters, em and mab had more hope against pac then guys pbf has fought recently, names like mitchell gatti baldomir those are true no hope losers against pbf, so yup case close.
Yup...case closed. Floyd has made it to the top...he's gotten the biggest fight that can be gotten...& pretty much everyone else on the planet recognizes that fact...everyone...but you...you truely are p4pking.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
I'm one of the biggest Floyd defenders, and normally I love weighing in on these debates, but Wacko has already said it all.
For all the Floyd bashers who love to criticize his list of opponents, I'd love to see one of you put together a list of fighters who you think Floyd has avoided and who you think could compete with Floyd. And whatever you do, don't even think about building your argument around Antonio Margarito! Floyd would wipe the canvas with Margarito.
Floyd is the unquestioned PFP king until someone gets the better of him. And history tells us that the great mid-weight speed/defense fighters do not lose until they reach an advanced age and start see their speed and reflexes depreciate. So don't look for Floyd to lose anytime soon.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
PBF-awesomely talented but over rated himself,hence the harsh critics. Great fighter but resume leaves alot to be desired imo. Beat good fighters at the beginning of his career,but Oscar aside,has not fought someone who is really dangerous in a while. Like I said,I am in awe of his talents but guys like Sharmba,Judah,Baldo,Gatti,Brusseles are not what all time great resumes are made up of. That's just my opinion.
I agree with you there but do you not sometimes think that maybe there is not enough 'good to great' fighters out there at the moment? He gets slated for not fighting Margarito, yet if he beat him folk would complain that Margarito is slow and predictable. If he beat Hatton or Cotto folk would just say 'well i told you both of them were over hyped'. Now if he beats Oscar folk are going to put it down to old age and ring inactivity on Oscar's part.
As no fighter around today seems to be close to perfect, their most obvious flaw(s) seems to get picked upon as soon as a possibly great fighter beats them (mayweather for example). Therefore a fighter like Mayweather will struggle to be recognised as a great in the present time.
In years to come will any of the fighters of this current generation be remembered as greats? Because if Mayweather isn't, then i cannot think of any other fighter that will be.
No,but if Mayweather could beat Margarito,Hatton and Cotto plus one other name then NO ONE could say anything,he would be defeating his nearest rivals and threats. These would be fights against guys who are not old/on the slide/mentally weak etc whoch would describe PBF's opponents' for the last few years.
Castillo,Hernandez,Chavez,Ndou,Gatti,Corrales,etc a few good names there but ALL Time Great? Hell no..add Hatton,Cotto and Margarito and it looks 20 times better already.
He has missed out on fighting Spadafora,Tszyu,Casamayor etc etc for one reason or another and at 140 and 147,no one on the planet can say he fought the best in those divisions,no way. He's too guilty of handpicking opponents.
I'm sorry but for me,he's wasting his talent. If I had that much talent,I 'd fight Cotto,Hatton,Margarito etc shut up the critics and earn $$$$$$$$$ in the process+ a greater legacy than he has now..
Look, please get the facts straight.
Everyone knows Floyd wanted to fight Tszyu after Gatti, but Hatton got to Kosta first.
Floyd fought the best of the best at 135, so please stop. If Floyd fought Casamayor and didn't fight Corrales, you would just say "why didn't Floyd fight Corrales." You're saying JLC and Corrales were good names but not all-time greats, but neither were Spafadora and Casamayor. So Floyd wouldn't have gained any more respect by fighting them. You would just find other boxers to say Floyd ducked.
For the last time, HATTON HAS NOT WANTED TO FIGHT FLOYD YET!!! Hatton himself knows that he's in for the toughest night of his life against Floyd and he even said because of that knowledge he's not ready yet. HATTON HAS SAID THIS!!! So please stop making it seem like Mayweather is running because it's exactly the opposite.
Tony obviously is an average boxer. The guy showed up and was completely OUTCLASSED for four rounds until Clottey screwed his hands up. I mean, it wasn't even competitive, Clottey was killing Tony. I'll give credit for Tony winning the fight, it's not his fault that Clottey hurt his hands. But everyone watching could tell there was a difference in talent when Clottey was healthy. Tony was getting tattooed. At first he was the big bad boogeyman, and now his own promoter has moved onto another bandwagon after his performance. And you people will say "why doesn't Floyd just fight him if Tony sucks so bad??" Because Tony would just be another opponent that people would take and say Floyd hasn't fought anybody still. Once Tony is dispatched, people will forget the hype, and will look at his record, and people will say "who had Tony fought anyway?" and he will fall amongst the ranks of Corley and Gatti on Floyd's record.
Cotto has only now come to 147. When Floyd was at 140, Cotto was a lil pup still at 140. There's no way Arum would have put Cotto in with Floyd and they were still both being promoted by Top Rank at the time. Cotto has now made a little noise at 147, he's still fairly new to the division. It's Arum's job to build up the hype, it's your job to not fall into it. If Floyd beats ODLH and Cotto beats Tony, then the fight will probably be made.
You're a hater.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Yo Albsur,stop talking nonsense. This is why I only like talking to specific Floyd fans,just because I make points about Floyd,I'm a hater.....blah blah etc etc. All those points you made don't mean anything to me because like I said,the fights were not made for one reason or another,I did not say it was Floyd's fault first and second, Margarito,Cotto,Hatton etc are MUCH better names than Gatti,Baldo etc etc
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
I'm one of the biggest Floyd defenders, and normally I love weighing in on these debates, but Wacko has already said it all.
For all the Floyd bashers who love to criticize his list of opponents, I'd love to see one of you put together a list of fighters who you think Floyd has avoided and who you think could compete with Floyd. And whatever you do, don't even think about building your argument around Antonio Margarito! Floyd would wipe the canvas with Margarito.
Floyd is the unquestioned PFP king until someone gets the better of him. And history tells us that the great mid-weight speed/defense fighters do not lose until they reach an advanced age and start see their speed and reflexes depreciate. So don't look for Floyd to lose anytime soon.
:coolclick: Sweet Pea.
Here's the thing...everyone man is beatable & I acknowledge that...but I do not see Margarito as the man to beat Floyd nor do I really even view him as a fight that should happen. A fighter can not fight every other fighter on the planet much less every fighter that a clump of fans want the other fighter to fight.
Floyd's on a path that he's been on for many many years now & the road is now coming to it's end...that road is Oscar. Fight fans wanted that fight...it was a hard fight to make...& not just on Floyd's account.
It's fight that has been made...& now that is...people are screaming for more would be dispatchers?
Please.
It's Floyd's career & it's been & is & will be or was a brilliant one...no matter the outcome.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by albsur2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
PBF-awesomely talented but over rated himself,hence the harsh critics. Great fighter but resume leaves alot to be desired imo. Beat good fighters at the beginning of his career,but Oscar aside,has not fought someone who is really dangerous in a while. Like I said,I am in awe of his talents but guys like Sharmba,Judah,Baldo,Gatti,Brusseles are not what all time great resumes are made up of. That's just my opinion.
I agree with you there but do you not sometimes think that maybe there is not enough 'good to great' fighters out there at the moment? He gets slated for not fighting Margarito, yet if he beat him folk would complain that Margarito is slow and predictable. If he beat Hatton or Cotto folk would just say 'well i told you both of them were over hyped'. Now if he beats Oscar folk are going to put it down to old age and ring inactivity on Oscar's part.
As no fighter around today seems to be close to perfect, their most obvious flaw(s) seems to get picked upon as soon as a possibly great fighter beats them (mayweather for example). Therefore a fighter like Mayweather will struggle to be recognised as a great in the present time.
In years to come will any of the fighters of this current generation be remembered as greats? Because if Mayweather isn't, then i cannot think of any other fighter that will be.
No,but if Mayweather could beat Margarito,Hatton and Cotto plus one other name then NO ONE could say anything,he would be defeating his nearest rivals and threats. These would be fights against guys who are not old/on the slide/mentally weak etc whoch would describe PBF's opponents' for the last few years.
Castillo,Hernandez,Chavez,Ndou,Gatti,Corrales,etc a few good names there but ALL Time Great? Hell no..add Hatton,Cotto and Margarito and it looks 20 times better already.
He has missed out on fighting Spadafora,Tszyu,Casamayor etc etc for one reason or another and at 140 and 147,no one on the planet can say he fought the best in those divisions,no way. He's too guilty of handpicking opponents.
I'm sorry but for me,he's wasting his talent. If I had that much talent,I 'd fight Cotto,Hatton,Margarito etc shut up the critics and earn $$$$$$$$$ in the process+ a greater legacy than he has now..
Look, please get the facts straight.
Everyone knows Floyd wanted to fight Tszyu after Gatti, but Hatton got to Kosta first.
Floyd fought the best of the best at 135, so please stop. If Floyd fought Casamayor and didn't fight Corrales, you would just say "why didn't Floyd fight Corrales." You're saying JLC and Corrales were good names but not all-time greats, but neither were Spafadora and Casamayor. So Floyd wouldn't have gained any more respect by fighting them. You would just find other boxers to say Floyd ducked.
For the last time, HATTON HAS NOT WANTED TO FIGHT FLOYD YET!!! Hatton himself knows that he's in for the toughest night of his life against Floyd and he even said because of that knowledge he's not ready yet. HATTON HAS SAID THIS!!! So please stop making it seem like Mayweather is running because it's exactly the opposite.
Tony obviously is an average boxer. The guy showed up and was completely OUTCLASSED for four rounds until Clottey screwed his hands up. I mean, it wasn't even competitive, Clottey was killing Tony. I'll give credit for Tony winning the fight, it's not his fault that Clottey hurt his hands. But everyone watching could tell there was a difference in talent when Clottey was healthy. Tony was getting tattooed. At first he was the big bad boogeyman, and now his own promoter has moved onto another bandwagon after his performance. And you people will say "why doesn't Floyd just fight him if Tony sucks so bad??" Because Tony would just be another opponent that people would take and say Floyd hasn't fought anybody still. Once Tony is dispatched, people will forget the hype, and will look at his record, and people will say "who had Tony fought anyway?" and he will fall amongst the ranks of Corley and Gatti on Floyd's record.
Cotto has only now come to 147. When Floyd was at 140, Cotto was a lil pup still at 140. There's no way Arum would have put Cotto in with Floyd and they were still both being promoted by Top Rank at the time. Cotto has now made a little noise at 147, he's still fairly new to the division. It's Arum's job to build up the hype, it's your job to not fall into it. If Floyd beats ODLH and Cotto beats Tony, then the fight will probably be made.
You're a hater.
Ummmmm...nope. Your'e wrong there. He's surely not.
He's just a discusser...which is what this forum is all about.
He see's it from both ends & starts a debate. That aint a hater.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Yo Albsur,stop talking nonsense. This is why I only like talking to specific Floyd fans,just because I make points about Floyd,I'm a hater.....blah blah etc etc. All those points you made don't mean anything to me because like I said,the fights were not made for one reason or another,I did not say it was Floyd's fault first and second, Margarito,Cotto,Hatton etc are MUCH better names than Gatti,Baldo etc etc
Well said...& that's the point that needs to be made also.
Just because all these fights were not made...it's not Mayweather's fault that the fights weren't all made.
Careful deduction will show most that a lot of this stems from the fans, Arum's bitterness, & a lot of would be contenders pulling out here & there.
#1: Margarito wasn't a factor until Floyd left Arum...think back to when that was & you'll see that truth.
#2: Cotto...he already said he wasn't ready...then he was. When he was...that changed over the course of an 8 round blowout & youv'e never heard peep from him again due to the fact that Cotto watched ringside as Floyd systematically humiliated Miquel's sparring partner Bruseles...& that was that.
#3: Hatton by his own admission...wasn't ready...then he was...then he wasn't...then came Collazo & now he's back @ 140lbs...
Reminds me of a little Dave Chappelle skit...When Keepin It Real Goes Wrong. ;D
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Yo Albsur,stop talking nonsense. This is why I only like talking to specific Floyd fans,just because I make points about Floyd,I'm a hater.....blah blah etc etc. All those points you made don't mean anything to me because like I said,the fights were not made for one reason or another,I did not say it was Floyd's fault first and second, Margarito,Cotto,Hatton etc are MUCH better names than Gatti,Baldo etc etc
I understand what you are trying to say but if Floyd beat Tony, how much credit would you actually give him? You'd still come out here and say, "well, he hasn't beat Cotto or Hatton yet. He's so overrated." You're already basically giving Floyd no credit for anything he has done and that's absurd.
Re: Mayweather.... Give me your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Quote:
Originally Posted by albsur2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
PBF-awesomely talented but over rated himself,hence the harsh critics. Great fighter but resume leaves alot to be desired imo. Beat good fighters at the beginning of his career,but Oscar aside,has not fought someone who is really dangerous in a while. Like I said,I am in awe of his talents but guys like Sharmba,Judah,Baldo,Gatti,Brusseles are not what all time great resumes are made up of. That's just my opinion.
I agree with you there but do you not sometimes think that maybe there is not enough 'good to great' fighters out there at the moment? He gets slated for not fighting Margarito, yet if he beat him folk would complain that Margarito is slow and predictable. If he beat Hatton or Cotto folk would just say 'well i told you both of them were over hyped'. Now if he beats Oscar folk are going to put it down to old age and ring inactivity on Oscar's part.
As no fighter around today seems to be close to perfect, their most obvious flaw(s) seems to get picked upon as soon as a possibly great fighter beats them (mayweather for example). Therefore a fighter like Mayweather will struggle to be recognised as a great in the present time.
In years to come will any of the fighters of this current generation be remembered as greats? Because if Mayweather isn't, then i cannot think of any other fighter that will be.
No,but if Mayweather could beat Margarito,Hatton and Cotto plus one other name then NO ONE could say anything,he would be defeating his nearest rivals and threats. These would be fights against guys who are not old/on the slide/mentally weak etc whoch would describe PBF's opponents' for the last few years.
Castillo,Hernandez,Chavez,Ndou,Gatti,Corrales,etc a few good names there but ALL Time Great? Hell no..add Hatton,Cotto and Margarito and it looks 20 times better already.
He has missed out on fighting Spadafora,Tszyu,Casamayor etc etc for one reason or another and at 140 and 147,no one on the planet can say he fought the best in those divisions,no way. He's too guilty of handpicking opponents.
I'm sorry but for me,he's wasting his talent. If I had that much talent,I 'd fight Cotto,Hatton,Margarito etc shut up the critics and earn $$$$$$$$$ in the process+ a greater legacy than he has now..
Look, please get the facts straight.
Everyone knows Floyd wanted to fight Tszyu after Gatti, but Hatton got to Kosta first.
Floyd fought the best of the best at 135, so please stop. If Floyd fought Casamayor and didn't fight Corrales, you would just say "why didn't Floyd fight Corrales." You're saying JLC and Corrales were good names but not all-time greats, but neither were Spafadora and Casamayor. So Floyd wouldn't have gained any more respect by fighting them. You would just find other boxers to say Floyd ducked.
For the last time, HATTON HAS NOT WANTED TO FIGHT FLOYD YET!!! Hatton himself knows that he's in for the toughest night of his life against Floyd and he even said because of that knowledge he's not ready yet. HATTON HAS SAID THIS!!! So please stop making it seem like Mayweather is running because it's exactly the opposite.
Tony obviously is an average boxer. The guy showed up and was completely OUTCLASSED for four rounds until Clottey screwed his hands up. I mean, it wasn't even competitive, Clottey was killing Tony. I'll give credit for Tony winning the fight, it's not his fault that Clottey hurt his hands. But everyone watching could tell there was a difference in talent when Clottey was healthy. Tony was getting tattooed. At first he was the big bad boogeyman, and now his own promoter has moved onto another bandwagon after his performance. And you people will say "why doesn't Floyd just fight him if Tony sucks so bad??" Because Tony would just be another opponent that people would take and say Floyd hasn't fought anybody still. Once Tony is dispatched, people will forget the hype, and will look at his record, and people will say "who had Tony fought anyway?" and he will fall amongst the ranks of Corley and Gatti on Floyd's record.
Cotto has only now come to 147. When Floyd was at 140, Cotto was a lil pup still at 140. There's no way Arum would have put Cotto in with Floyd and they were still both being promoted by Top Rank at the time. Cotto has now made a little noise at 147, he's still fairly new to the division. It's Arum's job to build up the hype, it's your job to not fall into it. If Floyd beats ODLH and Cotto beats Tony, then the fight will probably be made.
You're a hater.
Ummmmm...nope. Your'e wrong there. He's surely not.
He's just a discusser...which is what this forum is all about.
He see's it from both ends & starts a debate. That aint a hater.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Yo Albsur,stop talking nonsense. This is why I only like talking to specific Floyd fans,just because I make points about Floyd,I'm a hater.....blah blah etc etc. All those points you made don't mean anything to me because like I said,the fights were not made for one reason or another,I did not say it was Floyd's fault first and second, Margarito,Cotto,Hatton etc are MUCH better names than Gatti,Baldo etc etc
Well said...& that's the point that needs to be made also.
Just because all these fights were not made...it's not Mayweather's fault that the fights weren't all made.
Careful deduction will show most that a lot of this stems from the fans, Arum's bitterness, & a lot of would be contenders pulling out here & there.
#1: Margarito wasn't a factor until Floyd left Arum...think back to when that was & you'll see that truth.
#2: Cotto...he already said he wasn't ready...then he was. When he was...that changed over the course of an 8 round blowout & youv'e never heard peep from him again due to the fact that Cotto watched ringside as Floyd systematically humiliated Miquel's sparring partner Bruseles...& that was that.
#3: Hatton by his own admission...wasn't ready...then he was...then he wasn't...then came Collazo & now he's back @ 140lbs...
Reminds me of a little Dave Chappelle skit...When Keepin It Real Goes Wrong. ;D
I'm glad you recognise Wack,I've known you on here long enough for you to know,I'm not the type to start hating on a fighter,I'm just discussing and believe,I think PBF is one of the most talented fighters i have EVER seen BUT he's wasting the talent by not beating the danger guys.
Regardless for whatever reason,those fights were not made,they should have been as they enhanced PBF's resume,they are fights where he would not be hot hot fave to win,and would be dangerous fights,agains YOUNG,HUNGRY fighters.
That's my major gripe,his best wins,Castillo,Corrales and Chavez are good fighters but I'd much rather see Hatton,Cotto,and Margarito there instead. I mean the guys he has fought at 140 and 147 and C grade fighters imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albsur2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Yo Albsur,stop talking nonsense. This is why I only like talking to specific Floyd fans,just because I make points about Floyd,I'm a hater.....blah blah etc etc. All those points you made don't mean anything to me because like I said,the fights were not made for one reason or another,I did not say it was Floyd's fault first and second, Margarito,Cotto,Hatton etc are MUCH better names than Gatti,Baldo etc etc
I understand what you are trying to say but if Floyd beat Tony, how much credit would you actually give him? You'd still come out here and say, "well, he hasn't beat Cotto or Hatton yet. He's so overrated." You're already basically giving Floyd no credit for anything he has done and that's absurd.
Absolutely NOT.No way,if he beat Tony,he would be beating RING/ESPN etc number 2 WW,a guy that has been unbeaten at WW for like 7 years and is a tough and rugged fighter.
You think Ray BOOM BOOM Mancini,when asked who he thought could beat Floyd,would say Tony for no reason?
Do you think James Toney would say Tony would give PBF his toughest fight for no reason?
Bro,do you think Steve kim and Doug Fishcer(who has been a boxing fan for 25 years and gets nearly EVERY prediction for a big fight right) would like Tony if he was not a dangerous fighter?
All these guys know their shit,so if Floyd took the fight and won,I could not care less what ANYONE said,he would have earnt my respect just as in the same way,Manny Pacman earned my respect by destroying 2 of my fave boxers and drawing with another of my faves. You earn respect by fighting the best,by fighting the threats and the dangermen,not by handpicking opponents etc etc...
My point is,these are the types of fights Floyd needs to make..I'm just NOT IMPRESSED at all with Gatti,Mitchell,Judah,Baldo etc,I could care less what title it was for,he's about to vacate that title no anwaya so could not have mean that much to him!
Sorry if I sounded rude in the previous post though.
