Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Mick,fill me in on Canto,what was he like? Record? And will you ever cease your HATRED for Wonjongkam! Has that guy EVER fought someone in the top 10? or even top 20,30? And he keeps racking up the records,I hope that in 40,50,60 years from now they remember that all he ever did was fight bums!
Miguel Angel Canto Solis (born January 30, 1948 in Mérida, Yucatán) is a former world boxing champion from Mexico.
Contrary to many Mexican boxers, Canto was not a "slam-bang" type of boxer ("Slam-Bang" is a term that is used to describe boxers whose fights are usually action-packed; Mexican boxers are usually stereotyped as "slam-bangers"). He enjoyed using boxing techniques and knowledge instead of trying to score knockouts in most of his fights. Prove of this is that he only won fifteen fights by knockout, out of more than seventy professional bouts.
Canto began his professional boxing career on February 5, 1969. He became one of those rare cases in boxing, like Alexis Arguello, Henry Armstrong, Bernard Hopkins, and Victor Luvi Callejas and Wilfredo Vazquez, where a boxer loses his first fight and goes on to become a world champion. He lost that day to Raul Hernandez, in Canto's hometown of Mérida, by a knockout in round three.
His first win came against Pedro Martinez, on May 5, 1969, by a four round decision, also at Merida. Canto lost his next fight, but a streak of seven undefeated fights (he went 5-0-2, with 2 knockouts during that streak), led him to fight Vicente Pool on May 27 of 1970, for the Yucatan state Flyweight title. Canto won his first professional belt when he outpointed Pool over twelve rounds. In his first defense, he retained the crown, with a twelve round decision over Jose Luis Cetina. After losing his next bout, a ten round, non title bout, on a decision, he went on to win 21 bouts in a row, including his first bout outside Merida (a two round knockout of Pedro Martinez in Cansahcab, Mexico), and a win over Constantino Garcia on January 22, 1972, by twelve round decision, to claim the Mexican Flyweight title. On January 31, 1973, he fought to a ten round draw (tie) against perennial contender Ignacio Espinal.
After a streak of twenty six fights without loss (including the tie against Espinal), he was given his first world title try, when he fought Betulio Gonzalez in Maracaibo, Venezuela, for the WBC world Flyweight title. In what was also his first fight abroad, he was outpointed by the equally legendary Gonzalez, considered by many to be Venezuela's greatest fighter of all time, on August 4 of 1973.
Canto won six more fights, including two Mexican title defenses, and on January 8, 1975, he became the WBC world Flyweight champion by defeating then champion Shoji Oguma by a fifteen round decision at Sendai, Japan. His dream of becoming a world champion finally realized, Canto was a busy champion, mixing several non-title bouts with his title defenses. He beat Espinal in a rematch by a ten round decision, and his first four title defenses (including a third fight with Espinal, in which Canto retained the title by a fifteen round decision) were made in Mexico, but he eventually became a travelling world champion.
For his fifth title defense, he returned to Venezuela for a rematch with Gonzalez. The second time around, he beat Gonzalez by a fifteen round decision. and, one month later, he retained the crown against Orlando Javierto, once again by fifteen round decision, in Los Angeles, California.
On April 24, 1977, he returned to Venezuela for a third time, retaining the title against Reyes Arnal by a fifteen round decision in Caracas. Two months later, he beat Kimio Furesawa by a fifteen round decision in Tokyo. Then, he and Martin Vargas fought the first of their two bouts: on September 17 1977, Canto outpointed Vargas in his hometown of Mérida.
It was Canto's turn to travel to Vargas' hometown of Santiago, Chile, for their rematch, held on November 30 of the same year. Canto once again retained the title with a fifteen round decision.
In 1978, Canto retained his title three times, including two rematches with Shoji Oguma, both of them held in Japan, and another fifteen round points win over Facomrom Vibonchai, in a fight held at Houston, Texas.
By this time, Canto's name had become a household name all over Latin America, thanks in part to The Ring En Espanol, which gave Canto's fights much coverage.
On February 10 of 1979, he retained the title against a future world champion, Antonio Avelar, by a fifteen round decision, but, on March 18, his reign came to an end, when he lost a fifteen round decision to Chan Hee Park in South Korea.
On September 9 of that same year, he tried to recover the title from Park, but, after fifteen rounds, the champion retained the title with a fifteen round tie.
Canto's career took a downward spiral after that. He went 4-4 in his last eight fights, including a loss and a win against future world champion Gabriel Bernal, a loss against Olympic Bronze medalist Orlando Maldonado of Puerto Rico and another loss against future world title challenger Candido Tellez.
After losing by knockout in round nine to Rodolfo Ortega on July 24, 1982, Canto retired from boxing for good. He had a record of 69 wins, 9 losses and 4 draws (ties), with 15 knockout wins.
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Mick,fill me in on Canto,what was he like? Record? And will you ever cease your HATRED for Wonjongkam! Has that guy EVER fought someone in the top 10? or even top 20,30? And he keeps racking up the records,I hope that in 40,50,60 years from now they remember that all he ever did was fight bums!
Excellent skills, you wanna talk about ring generalship 'The Teacher' had it....
Hes along the lines of Pernell and 'Finito' Lopez.... Very seasoned and moved well in the ring I've only seen 2 of his fights and highlights on tv of him.....
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Pancho Villa was good.....gotta love Jimmy Wilde though
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
I think there are probably four guys in the coversation
Jimmy Wilde-Perhaps the greatest p4p puncher the sport has ever known, The division was more or less created for him. Tiny even for a flyweight. Arguably one of the ten greatest fighters in history.
Pancho Villa-A whirling dervish. Wilde's successor. Defeated Wilde but Wilde was long past it. Dead at 24 with 90+ wins IIRC
Pascual Perez-1950's champ. Ten defenses. Under 5' tall, an attacking machine. Another 80-90 win guy
Miguel Canto-Unlike the other three was not a huge puncher. An excellent boxer and he had something like 14-15 defenses.
In my view the best answer is Wilde. Had Villa lived longer he certainly had a chance to pass him because in the early-mid 1920's the 112's got absolutely loaded with guys like LaBarba and Genaro and Panama Al Brown (how does a 5'11 flyweight grab ya?). Pancho would really have been tested but he could also have rolled up some awfully big wins.
Here's one other thought. By the time Finito Lopez rolled around men were getting weighed in the day before. On a same day weigh-in basis? Finito probably belongs in the discussion. He was taller and longer than anybody I've mentioned except Al Brown.
Nice question BTW!
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
I'd argue the scores for the top four are effectively a tie.
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
My top Fly's Canto, Gonzalez, Laciar & Oguma.
Gotta mention Masao & Zapata when talking about the small guys.
"Chava" Sanchez & Masao lived a mirrored life... For those interested I did some research on this years ago and posted this.
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ntertwine.html
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
I do not want Shane to win because it would ruin the Pac v Floyd fight totally.
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
I think there are probably four guys in the coversation
Jimmy Wilde-Perhaps the greatest p4p puncher the sport has ever known, The division was more or less created for him. Tiny even for a flyweight. Arguably one of the ten greatest fighters in history.
Pancho Villa-A whirling dervish. Wilde's successor. Defeated Wilde but Wilde was long past it. Dead at 24 with 90+ wins IIRC
Pascual Perez-1950's champ. Ten defenses. Under 5' tall, an attacking machine. Another 80-90 win guy
Miguel Canto-Unlike the other three was not a huge puncher. An excellent boxer and he had something like 14-15 defenses.
In my view the best answer is Wilde. Had Villa lived longer he certainly had a chance to pass him because in the early-mid 1920's the 112's got absolutely loaded with guys like LaBarba and Genaro and Panama Al Brown (how does a 5'11 flyweight grab ya?). Pancho would really have been tested but he could also have rolled up some awfully big wins.
Here's one other thought. By the time Finito Lopez rolled around men were getting weighed in the day before. On a same day weigh-in basis? Finito probably belongs in the discussion. He was taller and longer than anybody I've mentioned except Al Brown.
Nice question BTW!
I'll go with Finito Lopez.
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Jimmy Wilde v Ricardo Lopez would have decided the best of all time , and its a pick em fight for me.
Before u say Lopez fought at a lower weight , so did Jimmy , these are the best of any one time.
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I do not want Shane to win because it would ruin the Pac v Floyd fight totally.
Drinking again????
LOL I swear I posted this on another thread. :p
Jimmy Wilde is the best but the one I have seen would be Chitlada.
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Jimmy Wilde v Ricardo Lopez would have decided the best of all time , and its a pick em fight for me.
Before u say Lopez fought at a lower weight , so did Jimmy , these are the best of any one time.
Wilde ususally fought in double digits and you can bet when he weighed in over 105 he was fully clothed including shoes. He probably gave up more size in more fights than anyone in history.
Re: Who is the greatest flyweight of all time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
I think there are probably four guys in the coversation
Jimmy Wilde-Perhaps the greatest p4p puncher the sport has ever known, The division was more or less created for him. Tiny even for a flyweight. Arguably one of the ten greatest fighters in history.
Pancho Villa-A whirling dervish. Wilde's successor. Defeated Wilde but Wilde was long past it. Dead at 24 with 90+ wins IIRC
Pascual Perez-1950's champ. Ten defenses. Under 5' tall, an attacking machine. Another 80-90 win guy
Miguel Canto-Unlike the other three was not a huge puncher. An excellent boxer and he had something like 14-15 defenses.
In my view the best answer is Wilde. Had Villa lived longer he certainly had a chance to pass him because in the early-mid 1920's the 112's got absolutely loaded with guys like LaBarba and Genaro and Panama Al Brown (how does a 5'11 flyweight grab ya?). Pancho would really have been tested but he could also have rolled up some awfully big wins.
Here's one other thought. By the time Finito Lopez rolled around men were getting weighed in the day before. On a same day weigh-in basis? Finito probably belongs in the discussion. He was taller and longer than anybody I've mentioned except Al Brown.
Nice question BTW!
I'll go with Finito Lopez.
Are you aware Lopez had ZERO flyweight bouts?
