Thoughts on Joe C.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Memphis

I think its inevitable that he will be labelled a what if. What more can he hope to get from the sport? An old (but still good) Hopkins, the shadow that Roy Jones Jr leaves behind, a hard working but limited Clinton Woods?

I cant see how Calzaghe propels himself to the next level.

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jermain taylor
bernard hopkins
clinton woods
glen johnson
roy jones
carl froch
mikkel kessler

pick any of these 3 for calzaghes next 3 fights and i can a sure you calzaghe will get about 10 times more respect even though hopkins is old he still very good he had good win over tarver and if he beats winky and then calzaghe beats hopkins calzaghe will get alot of respect and i think that would stop most of doubters even though hopkins is old you and i know he is sort of guy that peaked late in his age

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What on earth is Carl Froch doing among those other names????????

I would surely love for ANYONE to rid us of Froch. But no top fighter should get actual credit winning or taking the fight at all - considering Froch's nonexcistant resume.
Froch quite simply NEEDS better names on his record to be mentioned as a worthwhile opponent.

So while i would be thankfull of whoever beats Froch - I would not be able to respect the likes of Calzaghe of Kessler for taking such a fight. Not untill Froch has proven himself against significantly better opposition (doubt he will)

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Originally Posted by dumdane

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Memphis

I think its inevitable that he will be labelled a what if. What more can he hope to get from the sport? An old (but still good) Hopkins, the shadow that Roy Jones Jr leaves behind, a hard working but limited Clinton Woods?

I cant see how Calzaghe propels himself to the next level.

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jermain taylor
bernard hopkins
clinton woods
glen johnson
roy jones
carl froch
mikkel kessler

pick any of these 3 for calzaghes next 3 fights and i can a sure you calzaghe will get about 10 times more respect even though hopkins is old he still very good he had good win over tarver and if he beats winky and then calzaghe beats hopkins calzaghe will get alot of respect and i think that would stop most of doubters even though hopkins is old you and i know he is sort of guy that peaked late in his age

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What on earth is Carl Froch doing among those other names????????

I would surely love for ANYONE to rid us of Froch. But no top fighter should get actual credit winning or taking the fight at all - considering Froch's nonexcistant resume.
Froch quite simply NEEDS better names on his record to be mentioned as a worthwhile opponent.

So while i would be thankfull of whoever beats Froch - I would not be able to respect the likes of Calzaghe of Kessler for taking such a fight. Not untill Froch has proven himself against significantly better opposition (doubt he will)

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well froch would of been alot better than manfredo ::**

Would have given Kessler a far tougher fight than Beyer did too ;)

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Originally Posted by dumdane

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Memphis

I think its inevitable that he will be labelled a what if. What more can he hope to get from the sport? An old (but still good) Hopkins, the shadow that Roy Jones Jr leaves behind, a hard working but limited Clinton Woods?

I cant see how Calzaghe propels himself to the next level.

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jermain taylor
bernard hopkins
clinton woods
glen johnson
roy jones
carl froch
mikkel kessler

pick any of these 3 for calzaghes next 3 fights and i can a sure you calzaghe will get about 10 times more respect even though hopkins is old he still very good he had good win over tarver and if he beats winky and then calzaghe beats hopkins calzaghe will get alot of respect and i think that would stop most of doubters even though hopkins is old you and i know he is sort of guy that peaked late in his age

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What on earth is Carl Froch doing among those other names????????

I would surely love for ANYONE to rid us of Froch. But no top fighter should get actual credit winning or taking the fight at all - considering Froch's nonexcistant resume.
Froch quite simply NEEDS better names on his record to be mentioned as a worthwhile opponent.

So while i would be thankfull of whoever beats Froch - I would not be able to respect the likes of Calzaghe of Kessler for taking such a fight. Not untill Froch has proven himself against significantly better opposition (doubt he will)

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Igive froch a lot of shit, but i think the goes 12 with kessler and it is close, i don't see who wins tbh could depend on the night and the venue - you think the sunshines out of kesslers ass, nowt wrong with people thinking the same about froch is it?

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

The more posts I read both for and against this guy, and the more I look into his record and the people that were around for him to fight, the more I realize that the guy never had anybody to fight. RJJ and Toney had already moved on before Joe as a serious champion then there wasnt anybody left that would have been considered a NAME for him to fight. From what I have seen of his fights Joe is a good champion but we will never know how great he could have been since he didnt have the greatest opposition to go against.

I feel that a better claim could be made about his opposition if he had moved up to lightheavy as there was/is better quality opposition there as opposed to the current and past SMW division.

I know I have been aske to name a NAME that Joe should have fought but didnt, and I cant. The only names there was were names outside of his division. So I put the test to all of the knowledgeable posters out there in Saddo land to come up with the name(s) that Joe should have fought. Name somebody that IF Joe would have fought them, would have the boxing world thinking differently about Joe.

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gunna give you a :coolclick: for that post; i asked you to anme whom he could of/should of fought and you actualy took a look into it and made your own mind up - gotta respect that when you got drones on this forum who just go along with the crowd watching one or 2 matches and then thinking the have a good knowing of a fighter and his career.

I think now for the first time in joes career after the manfredo fight the excuses need to stop and its time to cement his legacy. He needs to go into this fight put ona hell of a show, and from it land fights with , Hopkins, Taylor, wright, kessler or miranda, i would say 3 of them 2 if he mvoes up to take on dawson or woods... if he does that i think he would answer alot of questions and shut alot of doubters up.

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

The more posts I read both for and against this guy, and the more I look into his record and the people that were around for him to fight, the more I realize that the guy never had anybody to fight. RJJ and Toney had already moved on before Joe as a serious champion then there wasnt anybody left that would have been considered a NAME for him to fight. From what I have seen of his fights Joe is a good champion but we will never know how great he could have been since he didnt have the greatest opposition to go against.

I feel that a better claim could be made about his opposition if he had moved up to lightheavy as there was/is better quality opposition there as opposed to the current and past SMW division.

I know I have been aske to name a NAME that Joe should have fought but didnt, and I cant. The only names there was were names outside of his division. So I put the test to all of the knowledgeable posters out there in Saddo land to come up with the name(s) that Joe should have fought. Name somebody that IF Joe would have fought them, would have the boxing world thinking differently about Joe.

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gunna give you a :coolclick: for that post; i asked you to anme whom he could of/should of fought and you actualy took a look into it and made your own mind up - gotta respect that when you got drones on this forum who just go along with the crowd watching one or 2 matches and then thinking the have a good knowing of a fighter and his career.

I think now for the first time in joes career after the manfredo fight the excuses need to stop and its time to cement his legacy. He needs to go into this fight put ona hell of a show, and from it land fights with , Hopkins, Taylor, wright, kessler or miranda, i would say 3 of them 2 if he mvoes up to take on dawson or woods... if he does that i think he would answer alot of questions and shut alot of doubters up.

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I try not to be a drone or idiot poster (still happens on occasion) I know there is at least two sides to every story, so I try to hear them all and make my own decision....so cc back.

For me the excuses should have stopped once he announced he was only going to fight a handfull more times. That should have been the start of finishing his legacy, not the start of starting his legacy. Either way his last 3 fights have to be big or he will go down as a very big WHAT IF. At this I dont know if he can do enough to shut up his doubters.

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

The more posts I read both for and against this guy, and the more I look into his record and the people that were around for him to fight, the more I realize that the guy never had anybody to fight. RJJ and Toney had already moved on before Joe as a serious champion then there wasnt anybody left that would have been considered a NAME for him to fight. From what I have seen of his fights Joe is a good champion but we will never know how great he could have been since he didnt have the greatest opposition to go against.

I feel that a better claim could be made about his opposition if he had moved up to lightheavy as there was/is better quality opposition there as opposed to the current and past SMW division.

I know I have been aske to name a NAME that Joe should have fought but didnt, and I cant. The only names there was were names outside of his division. So I put the test to all of the knowledgeable posters out there in Saddo land to come up with the name(s) that Joe should have fought. Name somebody that IF Joe would have fought them, would have the boxing world thinking differently about Joe.

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gunna give you a :coolclick: for that post; i asked you to anme whom he could of/should of fought and you actualy took a look into it and made your own mind up - gotta respect that when you got drones on this forum who just go along with the crowd watching one or 2 matches and then thinking the have a good knowing of a fighter and his career.

I think now for the first time in joes career after the manfredo fight the excuses need to stop and its time to cement his legacy. He needs to go into this fight put ona hell of a show, and from it land fights with , Hopkins, Taylor, wright, kessler or miranda, i would say 3 of them 2 if he mvoes up to take on dawson or woods... if he does that i think he would answer alot of questions and shut alot of doubters up.

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I try not to be a drone or idiot poster (still happens on occasion) I know there is at least two sides to every story, so I try to hear them all and make my own decision....so cc back.

For me the excuses should have stopped once he announced he was only going to fight a handfull more times. That should have been the start of finishing his legacy, not the start of starting his legacy. Either way his last 3 fights have to be big or he will go down as a very big WHAT IF. At this I dont know if he can do enough to shut up his doubters.

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i can see your point, and not saying you are wrong, but i disagree, i like to wait a couple of matches and see how this turns outs... Take mayweather, the amount of hate he got when not fighting toni was crazy, the hate crew were out in their numbers, and i really disslike mayweather but i said in a post then, why jump the gun now, wait and see how this turns out, he goes on to beat the liner WW champ and now facing the golden boy, no 1 seems tog ive a fuck that he didn't fight toni now...

Same goes for calzaghe, he said he is fighting manfredo coz hbo want him to fight a big american name... should he follow this up with hopkins taylor/wright/kessler alot of people will have egg on their face.. sure question the fight etc, but the haters throwing names around just look like idiots if the fighter does the right thing - ofc if he does go out fighting bums he deserves the shit, i just don't get people who take shots the first chance they get.

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

The more posts I read both for and against this guy, and the more I look into his record and the people that were around for him to fight, the more I realize that the guy never had anybody to fight. RJJ and Toney had already moved on before Joe as a serious champion then there wasnt anybody left that would have been considered a NAME for him to fight. From what I have seen of his fights Joe is a good champion but we will never know how great he could have been since he didnt have the greatest opposition to go against.

I feel that a better claim could be made about his opposition if he had moved up to lightheavy as there was/is better quality opposition there as opposed to the current and past SMW division.

I know I have been aske to name a NAME that Joe should have fought but didnt, and I cant. The only names there was were names outside of his division. So I put the test to all of the knowledgeable posters out there in Saddo land to come up with the name(s) that Joe should have fought. Name somebody that IF Joe would have fought them, would have the boxing world thinking differently about Joe.

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gunna give you a :coolclick: for that post; i asked you to anme whom he could of/should of fought and you actualy took a look into it and made your own mind up - gotta respect that when you got drones on this forum who just go along with the crowd watching one or 2 matches and then thinking the have a good knowing of a fighter and his career.

I think now for the first time in joes career after the manfredo fight the excuses need to stop and its time to cement his legacy. He needs to go into this fight put ona hell of a show, and from it land fights with , Hopkins, Taylor, wright, kessler or miranda, i would say 3 of them 2 if he mvoes up to take on dawson or woods... if he does that i think he would answer alot of questions and shut alot of doubters up.

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I try not to be a drone or idiot poster (still happens on occasion) I know there is at least two sides to every story, so I try to hear them all and make my own decision....so cc back.

For me the excuses should have stopped once he announced he was only going to fight a handfull more times. That should have been the start of finishing his legacy, not the start of starting his legacy. Either way his last 3 fights have to be big or he will go down as a very big WHAT IF. At this I dont know if he can do enough to shut up his doubters.

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i can see your point, and not saying you are wrong, but i disagree, i like to wait a couple of matches and see how this turns outs... Take mayweather, the amount of hate he got when not fighting toni was crazy, the hate crew were out in their numbers, and i really disslike mayweather but i said in a post then, why jump the gun now, wait and see how this turns out, he goes on to beat the liner WW champ and now facing the golden boy, no 1 seems tog ive a F*** that he didn't fight toni now...

Same goes for calzaghe, he said he is fighting manfredo coz hbo want him to fight a big american name... should he follow this up with hopkins taylor/wright/kessler alot of people will have egg on their face.. sure question the fight etc, but the haters throwing names around just look like idiots if the fighter does the right thing - ofc if he does go out fighting bums he deserves the S***, i just don't get people who take shots the first chance they get.

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good point, guess he cant just wait around to a great fight materilizes before him, got to try to stay busy. I just wonder thou when somebody says that they are only going to fight X number of times then fights Bika and Manfredo. I could understand the fights if they werent back to back. If there had been a big fight inbetween there would be less of an uproar. Then again if there was a big fight inbetween we wouldnt be having this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Preme

Igive froch a lot of S***, but i think the goes 12 with kessler and it is close, i don't see who wins tbh could depend on the night and the venue - you think the sunshines out of kesslers a**, nowt wrong with people thinking the same about froch is it?

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Ppl can see sunshine comming out of whomevers a*** they like - Be it Froch, Calzaghe or Kessler.
But in the case of Froch, the credit some ppl wants to bestove him is totally unwarranted given his lack of accomplishments (and IMO promise).

Compare to Kessler who was cut absolutely no slack before becomming a champ. Still as a champ most refused to believe there could be anything noteworthy in a guy from Denmark, untill at least he'd gotten his second belt. A lot of ppl reached those conclussions without ever having seen Kessler.

Then up comes a brit with a big mouth and nothing much else to show - at a time when Calzaghe is nearing retirement.
Obviously he MUST be the second comming, since otherwise the british outlook for SMW in years to come looks bleak indeed. And he SAID so, so it must be true - right? ::**

He has not even fought a single top-10 opponent. His last opponent was not top-100. And some ppl thinks he should be considered one of the top guys in the division already.
His style may look exciting but it also looks hugely risky - especially since he has yet to try it against anyone good. - and we are to assume he'll just cruise through a higher level of opposition?

Just try to imagine if me and other danes had been talking about Kessler in the same way BEFORE he'd even fought a single top-10 opponent. I think ppl remained fairly reserved for a long time even after he became a champ - and in most cases without even bothering to check out what Kessler is about. Now I've only posted here since after Kessler became a champ. But even then it was apparently NOT come-il-faut to suggest Kessler might be on the same level as Calzaghe and Lacy.
But when it's brits doing it - with far less to show - I suppose I should just consider it charming.
I guess it has something to do with eloquence or something else I'm oblivious to.

Apart from all that I just can't stand Froch because of his big mouth. Think you'd have to be british to appreciate him for it.

im very dissappointed that Calzaghe is fighting a Manfredo at this stage of his career, but I'll wait like preme to see what materialises with his final fights.

I agree with the original poster though, there just haven't been the fighters in his division that could have cemented him as an all time great. The only legend he could have fought was Jones, which, unfortunately for both, didn't happen.

Granted there are names on Joe's record that are pretty shit, but the guys that have been mentioned here wouldn't have added much. He was down to fight Tate, but Tate actually pulled out of that one, hence Tocker Pudwill landed on his record. Glen Johnson was a journeyman that had one good year at light Heavyweight. Clinton Woods and Carl Froch are good British fighters, but I can't see how their names would add much to joes record, he beat the likes of Reid and Woodhall years ago, who were at the time at least the same level as what Carl and Clinton are at now.

As for future opponents, someone mentioned Miranda which Joe has nothing to gain from since, if he shuts him out, he'll just be labelled a 1 dimensional opponent like Lacy. Kessler would be a good fight, but again there's an argument that he's untested at the very top. The only conceivable fighters IMO that would add something to his record now are Taylor and Hopkins, if he fights either or both I wouldn't be too dissappointed with Joe's career, so Im going to see what happens.

Summarisng, IMO there could have been a few better fighters on Joe's record than the likes of Mcyntire and Sobot, but only Roy Jones would have greatly increased his resume.

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Originally Posted by tysonbruno

The only good names out of 19 defences are as i have said before a weight drained Eubank at a weeks notice an unlucky Robin Reid SD12,an old Charles Brewer,Omar Sheika,Byron Mitchell and Jeff lacey.

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That's why he's boxings most overrated champion. Can he fight? Yes he can. Is he talented? Very much so. Has he proven anything? Hell no.

Who is the current horde of Calzaghe fans will be here when Calzaghe looses to Kessler?

I can think of quite a few that will not ;D

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Originally Posted by jangeorg

Who is the current horde of Calzaghe fans will be here when Calzaghe looses to Kessler?

I can think of quite a few that will not ;D

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I guarantee you I'll be here when that day comes

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

The more posts I read both for and against this guy, and the more I look into his record and the people that were around for him to fight, the more I realize that the guy never had anybody to fight. RJJ and Toney had already moved on before Joe as a serious champion then there wasnt anybody left that would have been considered a NAME for him to fight. From what I have seen of his fights Joe is a good champion but we will never know how great he could have been since he didnt have the greatest opposition to go against.

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Good post. :coolclick:

Here's the thing...Calzaghe was often punished for what American fighters got away with...fighting in his own backyard. Jones did it...Hopkins did it...Toney did it...Floyd does it...Oscar...all the biggies & they get applauded for it.

It never made any sense to me because a great fighter is a great fighter...& that is what Joe is...a great fighter.

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

I feel that a better claim could be made about his opposition if he had moved up to lightheavy as there was/is better quality opposition there as opposed to the current and past SMW division.

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I'm glad that he stayed where he was...I like the title run...it's not his fault for fighting at home...he's the champ...they should have come to him & taken what he earned. A lot of the fighters were fantastic opponents...others were not...thing is...he handled them all & well.

Joe deserves respect.

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

I know I have been aske to name a NAME that Joe should have fought but didnt, and I cant. The only names there was were names outside of his division. So I put the test to all of the knowledgeable posters out there in Saddo land to come up with the name(s) that Joe should have fought. Name somebody that IF Joe would have fought them, would have the boxing world thinking differently about Joe.

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Hands down had he fought Jones & blasted him out...& I think for sure that he would have...the world would spin on their heels.

Truthfully...I would have been satisfied with him anyone that Toney or Jones fought during the prime time. Any name stateside would have sparked interest...personally...I think that Joe was just handled & managed improperly.

He's a hell of a fighter & honestly...there aint anyone out there that's really like the man. He's something to marvel at when on point.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

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Originally Posted by TyBuff

The more posts I read both for and against this guy, and the more I look into his record and the people that were around for him to fight, the more I realize that the guy never had anybody to fight. RJJ and Toney had already moved on before Joe as a serious champion then there wasnt anybody left that would have been considered a NAME for him to fight. From what I have seen of his fights Joe is a good champion but we will never know how great he could have been since he didnt have the greatest opposition to go against.

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Good post. :coolclick:

Here's the thing...Calzaghe was often punished for what American fighters got away with...fighting in his own backyard. Jones did it...Hopkins did it...Toney did it...Floyd does it...Oscar...all the biggies & they get applauded for it.

It never made any sense to me because a great fighter is a great fighter...& that is what Joe is...a great fighter.

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I think the difference is that when RJJ, Bhop, Toney, Floyd, ODLH fight in their backyards the quality of opposition is better for the most part. There was still some questionable fights in there for them but enough of them were quality enough that they are not questioned like Joe is.

cc back at ya.