Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.
That's perfect well said totally agree :coolclick:
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by warreng
i do agree he was overated but theres still no doubt he is one of the best heavyweights theres ever been but ice cold pointed out he had trouble with some fighters the main one being norton but if i remember rightly b4 when i said that louis could beat ali nd mentioned that ali struggled wid norton u said that dont mean nothing cos he was a difficult fighter so i dont no how u can use that aginst him now nd if it wasnt u sorry. cc for saying what many think
cc back mate yea i have studied Ali bit more recently and watched his fights and i do feel he is overrated.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
That saying the bigger they are the harder they fall. Theres another The Littler they are the further they go
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Fair enough nd i no its off the topic but who do u think the best ever hevyweight was? for me its joe louis which i no many of u wont agree but from wot ive seen of him nd other heavyweights in their prime i dont think ne1 could beat him nd even if they did he would beat them in the rematch.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by warreng
Fair enough nd i no its off the topic but who do u think the best ever hevyweight was? for me its joe louis which i no many of u wont agree but from wot ive seen of him nd other heavyweights in their prime i dont think ne1 could beat him nd even if they did he would beat them in the rematch.
Umm not sure Maybe Joe Louis but its debatable but i think Holmes would beat Louis.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.
That's perfect well said totally agree :coolclick:
No he fought his first fight in 53
So thats totally congruent with the 32 birth date,there is no evidence to support anything to the contrary,and there is evidence to support his given birthday
And the family census records for 1930 list no Charles,but it does list his siblings
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Ali wasn't unbeatable no one is. But he is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Fought the best, beat the best even when he was past his best.
He had trouble with Cooper early in his career, the split glove gave him an 11 second rest, and who's to say he couldn't have won that fight without the glove and salts?
Jones had just beat Zora Folley and was at his absolute best against a young Ali who was in between big fights. And Ali still won. And he was still 2 or 3 years from his prime.
IMO, he beat Norton twice, and one with a broken jaw.
But, those are minor footnotes of Ali's career. Honestly, that's nitpicking very much ICB. He fought in the strongest era of heavyweight history, gave some of the best fights of all time, and pretty well dominated.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by amat
Ali wasn't unbeatable no one is. But he is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Fought the best, beat the best even when he was past his best.
He had trouble with Cooper early in his career, the split glove gave him an 11 second rest, and who's to say he couldn't have won that fight without the glove and salts?
Jones had just beat Zora Folley and was at his absolute best against a young Ali who was in between big fights. And Ali still won. And he was still 2 or 3 years from his prime.
IMO, he beat Norton twice, and one with a broken jaw.
But, those are minor footnotes of Ali's career. Honestly, that's nitpicking very much ICB. He fought in the strongest era of heavyweight history, gave some of the best fights of all time, and pretty well dominated.
It's not nitpicking at all he got alot of gift decision and yes call me crazy but who knows what would of happened without smelling salts Ali was out of it and that woke him back up and they wernt even allowed so actually he should of been dq
And he struggled against boxers like Norton and Young made Ali look ordinary and should of got nod just say he would of lost 2 decision against Norton which i think he should have and decisions against Shavers and Young would he be greatest hw of all time still ??
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.
That's perfect well said totally agree :coolclick:
No he fought his first fight in 53
So thats totally congruent with the 32 birth date,there is no evidence to support anything to the contrary,and there is evidence to support his given birthday
And the family census records for 1930 list no Charles,but it does list his siblings
Dude, how can somebody who lives next door not know how old Liston was? They said he was around well before 1934, and that he was already a kid playing with their children by that time period?
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.
That's perfect well said totally agree :coolclick:
CC back, I know we've had a disagreements, and my paragraph there didn't make sense, but Ali was too unconventional, and keeping his hands that low would have caused him alot of problems against real boxers with or without his footwork because that can be timed especially when the opponent is dancing around it easier to for me at least to see when they come in.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Ask Ron Lyle if he was overrated
And dude,it was a goverment census that says he didnt exist,but his siblings did
So other then the goverment census records,and his prison records,and his boxing records we've got nothing right?
An elderly,illiterate sharecropers memory,asked years upon years later is much more accurate right?
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
