All Time: Heavies, Middles, Welters

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Originally Posted by tysonbruno

Big H can i ask why Hagler over Robinson jusr wondering

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Yes mate. Coz it's Middleweight. SRR is without doubt, imo, the greatest Welter of all time and the greatest P4P of all time, but I would think most people would have Hagler and Monzon above SRR at Middle. Yes he was 5 times champion, but he had to lose it to need to regain it, Hagler and Mozon were much more dominant at Midddleweight and held onto their belts

Ok..This will probably have changed from my past list's as they always do..
But also note i also include my liking of certain fighters along with they'res and others greatness!

Heavy's..

1. Joe Louis

2. Ali

3.Marciano

4. Dempsey

5. Foreman

6.Lewis

7. Tyson

8. Johnson

9. Foreman

10. Frazier


Middle's

1. Sugar Ray Robinson

2. Bernard Hopkins

3.Hagler

4.Jones Jr

5. Toney

6. Leonard

7. Lamotta

8.Winky wright.. Sure he is still fighting and at prime..But believe me he either is..Or is a dead cert to be here in the middleweight listings

9.Iran Barkley

10. I kinda want to mention Norris and jackson but norris was a light middle and jackson only a middle for a short period witha short title reign..So im gona cheat n stick em in here..


Welter.

1. Sugar ray Robinson

2.Sugar ray leonard

3.Felix Trinidad

4.Tommy hearns

5. Roberto Duran

6.Pernell Whittaker

7. Julio Cesar Chavez

8. Shane Mosely

9. Oscar De La Hoya

10. Floyd/ Gatti Floyd an excellent fighter/Gatti a great fighter who was huge for boxing...

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by tysonbruno

Big H can i ask why Hagler over Robinson jusr wondering

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Yes mate. Coz it's Middleweight. SRR is without doubt, imo, the greatest Welter of all time and the greatest P4P of all time, but I would think most people would have Hagler and Monzon above SRR at Middle. Yes he was 5 times champion, but he had to lose it to need to regain it, Hagler and Mozon were much more dominant at Midddleweight and held onto their belts

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I agree with that just wondered your reasons

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by tysonbruno

Big H can i ask why Hagler over Robinson jusr wondering

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Yes mate. Coz it's Middleweight. SRR is without doubt, imo, the greatest Welter of all time and the greatest P4P of all time, but I would think most people would have Hagler and Monzon above SRR at Middle. Yes he was 5 times champion, but he had to lose it to need to regain it, Hagler and Mozon were much more dominant at Midddleweight and held onto their belts

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I rate Robinson #2 ahead of both Hagler & Monzon. I agree the middleweight Robinson was not the welterweight Robinson. Slower, older & inconsistent. But he's still #2 in my eyes for several reasons:
1st the quality of his opponents, no other middleweight defeated so many Hall of Famers.
2nd at his best (which might have been the St Valentines Day Massacre fight) he could have beaten any other middleweight in history. Even @ middleweight he was one of the closest things to perfection in the ring.
3rd he was a star & a hugely popular champion. His fights with Basilio & Fullmer were huge events. Plus his stoppage of Fullmer in 57 is one of the most perfect knockouts ever recorded.

HEAVYWEIGHTS

1 Muhammad Ali
2 Joe Louis
3 Larry Holmes
4 Jack Johnson
5 Rocky Marciano
6 George Foreman
7 Gene Tunney
8 Jack Dempsey
9 Lennox Lewis
10 Evander Holyfield


Middleweights


1 Harry Greb
2 Marvin Hagler
3 Carlos Monzon
4 Sugar Ray Robinson
5 Charles Burley
6 Bernard Hopkins
7 Stanley Ketchel
8 Mickey Walker
9 Marcel Cerdan
10 Jake Lamotta


WELTERWEIGHTS


1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Sugar Ray Leonard
3 Thomas Hearns
4 Julio Cesar Chavez
5 Pernell Whitaker
6 Roberto Duran
7 Henry Armstrong
8 Felix Trinidad
9 Shane Mosley
10 Oscar Delahoya


Not happy with it i really struggled.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by LBSCFC

fair comment. thats why i have holmes at 4. to be honest it was the highest i could of put him really in my opinion

alis acheivements in and out of the ring says it all, guts,chin, charisma etc
louis - 25 title defences, tremendous short puncher
johnson - defensive genius, fought in an era of extreme prejudice, half a century ahead of his time

im with you on the rating holmes so highly but the 3 ive just mentioned just pip him in my opinion

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To be fair i've seen VERY LITTLE Jack Johnson footage, so I might be underrating him.

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Your not alone mate. From what Ive seen I would stop short of calling what Jack Johnson did genius too ;)

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Originally Posted by galaxy76

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by tysonbruno

Big H can i ask why Hagler over Robinson jusr wondering

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Yes mate. Coz it's Middleweight. SRR is without doubt, imo, the greatest Welter of all time and the greatest P4P of all time, but I would think most people would have Hagler and Monzon above SRR at Middle. Yes he was 5 times champion, but he had to lose it to need to regain it, Hagler and Mozon were much more dominant at Midddleweight and held onto their belts

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I rate Robinson #2 ahead of both Hagler & Monzon. I agree the middleweight Robinson was not the welterweight Robinson. Slower, older & inconsistent. But he's still #2 in my eyes for several reasons:
1st the quality of his opponents, no other middleweight defeated so many Hall of Famers.
2nd at his best (which might have been the St Valentines Day Massacre fight) he could have beaten any other middleweight in history. Even @ middleweight he was one of the closest things to perfection in the ring.
3rd he was a star & a hugely popular champion. His fights with Basilio & Fullmer were huge events. Plus his stoppage of Fullmer in 57 is one of the most perfect knockouts ever recorded.

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My favourite punch of all time ;)

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

For the record I have a VERY high opinon of Larry Holmes, and I feel that if he and Ali were to fight while both in their primes, Holmes would beat him. But Ali just has too many incredible achievements not to be #1, so Holmes gets my #2

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Agreed

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i agree also Holmes wins on points over Ali
but i think Johnson and guys like that were good in there era but wud not have beaten Lennox Lewis or Holyfield for that matter

Ali
Holmes
Louis
Marceano
foreman
dempsey
tyson
frazier
liston
lewis

Burley was never more than a welter !52 top, he always weighed in with added poundage on him should really be rated at welter

My Lists

Heavweights:

1. Muhammed Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Sam Langford
4. Gene Tunney
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Larry Holmes
8. Jack Johnson
9. George Foreman
10. Joe Frazier

Middleweights:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Harry Greb
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Michael Cerdan
6. Stanley Ketchal
7. Bernard Hopkins
8. Mickey Walker
9. Jake LaMotta
10. Tony Zale

Welterweights:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Pernell Whitaker
4. Sugar Ray Leonard
5. Roberto Duran
6. Julio Ceaser Chavez
7. Tommy Hearns
8. Charley Burley
9. Felix Trinidad
10. Oscar De La Hoya

Something thats always puzzeled me, why is Lamotta rated so high he never beat a good fighter other than Robinson. Cerdans shoulder went early other than that nobody.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Something thats always puzzeled me, why is Lamotta rated so high he never beat a good fighter other than Robinson. Cerdans shoulder went early other than that nobody.

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Interesting , you got a point there !

:o

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Something thats always puzzeled me, why is Lamotta rated so high he never beat a good fighter other than Robinson. Cerdans shoulder went early other than that nobody.

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Interesting , you got a point there !

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LaMotta fought Robinson down to the wire 6 times, plus handed him his 1st lose. That was the best Robinson there was & LaMotta whipped him. He beat ever good middleweight contender out there, hall of famer Zivic who Jake beat 3 times, Jackie Wilson, Tommy Bell, George Costner, Jose Basora, Holman Williams. If all you know about LaMotta came from the movie then these names don't mean much but they were top flight contenters during a stacked period in middleweight history.
If he hadn't got Frozen out by the mob he'd have been champ for years.
In the St. Valentines Day massacre Lamotta lead on 2 cards after 8 rds but he was all dried out from making 160 & had nothing left once Robinson started teeing off. But he took everything the best fighter in history could give him & at the end was still looking him in the eye.
Theres no doubt in my mind LaMotta was a great fighter!!!