Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Whilst he's a very very good boxer,he does not have the resume to be P4P, Absolutely not! And I believe Zab won their first fight and the Karmazin fight was close too. NO WAY p4p imo.
Well I am about to open up a complete title wave of controversy... But RING Magazine has Calzaghe #8 and Hatton #10
Cory has a better resume than both  ;)
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Lets just look at these facts here.
I know a lot of people don't like Cory Spinks, but I was just looking up his record and I noticed a few things.
He has taken a lot of risks that fighters these days and right now aren't taking, and won't take.  And is also very avoided.  I know a lot of people don't dig his style but check this out.
He fought this guy named pichirillo or something in his hole town of italy after being robbed in the first fight and took it.  And he won the title.
In his first title defense he fights Rocardo Mayorga who was THE HOTTEST THING in boxing at that moment and thought of as somewhat invincible and he took him on and he outboxed him and became the Undisputed Welterweight Champ.
For his FIRST defense of that belt he takes on Zab Judah who was coming off a first round win on the same card Spinks won that Undisputed title in. (granted it was against some journeyman but still impressive)
His fight with Judah was close with both of them hitting the deck, but he beat Zab Judah that night regardless.
Now Spinks won the fight in the eyes of some clearly enough that he didnt HAVE to rematch Zab Judah.  But he did it anyway(a risk most fighters don't seem to be taking nowadays)
And he fights him and he gets knocked out.
But as his comeback fight, he moves up to 154 to fight this Made in Hell guy who had just beat Kassim Ouma and knocked him down twice.
Spinks fights him after coming off a knockout loss and moving up in weight to face "arguably" the best 154 pounder up there(Ouma the exception, but he beat Ouma prior to that fight)
And Spinks in his first fight at 154 beats the BEST 154 pounder out there at the time. 
And now in his next fight, nobody at 154 wants to fight Spinks because he is very avoided(would have liked to see him face Kassim Ouma or Simms though)
But what does Spinks do? In his very next fight he moves up to 160 to face the Undisputed Middle Weight Champ in the champs backyard basically in his FIRST FIGHT at 160.
So lets look at Spinks last few opponents(discounting the easy one in between)
Pichirillo
Mayorga
Judah
Judah
Karmazin
Taylor
That's quite a resume and considering he has beaten everyone on that list at least once(Taylor the exception)  I think Spinks deserves a lot of credit, when you put up his last fights and the times he took them against some other ones today.
People say p4p is not only about who you fight but the risks you take, risk rewards.  And fans are always complaining that their fighters dont take the risks to be considered p4p.
Spinks has taken those huge risks and payed both ways because of it(the good and the bad) and he's still up there fighting bigger challenges and bigger risks.  if that isnt p4p I don't know what is.
Don't flame me here, but what do you think?
And Hulk I know you're lurking, say something other then "Mayorga got robbed" or "spinks runs like a girl" if you're going to respond ;)
Opinions anyone?
:coolclick:#353 Maj, I been fighting the  never ending Cory Spinks battle, I rate him very high, while most people are judgemental of his entrances and dramatic post fight emotional displays, instead of his talent and ability
he is currently top 5 easily in Boxing skill alone, not to mention heart and courage for willing to fight anybody anywere...
He clearly beat Mayorga, Judah the 1st time and Karmazin 1st shot at 154..... Cory has the goods and when he upsets Taylor to be the Linear Middleweight Champ he'll get his Official PFP ranking and people will be talking about his skill, like he just arrived even though he has been good all along ;)
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Whilst he's a very very good boxer,he does not have the resume to be P4P, Absolutely not! And I believe Zab won their first fight and the Karmazin fight was close too. NO WAY p4p imo.
Well I am about to open up a complete title wave of controversy... But RING Magazine has Calzaghe #8 and Hatton #10
Cory has a better resume than both ;)
I don't know bro,I like Spinks style although I've yet to see the Mayorga fight but JC's beaten some older former champs and a HUUUUUUUUGE % of people thought Jeff would dut him off easily. Hatton,again,some decent names like Maussa,Collazio,Urango who are as good as the ones on Spinks resume and add Tszyu too. And both JC and RH are undefeated. If Spinks beat Taylor,boy he would CERTAINLY be in my top 10. That would be an amazing win.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Whilst he's a very very good boxer,he does not have the resume to be P4P, Absolutely not! And I believe Zab won their first fight and the Karmazin fight was close too. NO WAY p4p imo.
Well I am about to open up a complete title wave of controversy... But RING Magazine has  Calzaghe #8 and Hatton #10
Cory has a better resume than both  ;)
I don't know bro,I like Spinks style although I've yet to see the Mayorga fight but JC's beaten some older former champs and a HUUUUUUUUGE % of people thought Jeff would dut him off easily. Hatton,again,some decent names like Maussa,Collazio,Urango who are as good as the ones on Spinks resume and add Tszyu too. And both JC and RH are undefeated. If Spinks beat Taylor,boy he would CERTAINLY be in my top 10. That would be an amazing win.
And believe me I'm not picking on Ricky, I am a big fan of his **** I LAUGH EVERYTIME I SAY THAT WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THUNK IT LET ALONE ME********** 8)  ;D  But Spinks gets no respect and I'll put his resume up against any of his contemporaries,   Joe Calzaghe has me a little tweeked these days, but Making a living off of Tszyu and Lacy dont get you PFP, when Spinks beat Mayorga, Judah, Karmazin. they were all the ducks nutz and at the top of their games when he defeated them  ;)
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
If Spinks beats Taylor (which is highly unlikely in my opinion simply because of the size advantage), he definitely deserves p4p status, no question. Not only does it strengthen an already-impressive resume, but it would make him an undisputed welterweight champion, a junior middleweight and a middleweight champion; being a 3 division champion is definitely decoration enough to be considered for a ranking amongst boxing's pound-for-pound elite, in my opinion.
Now if he had punching power...this guy would be incredible and might already top boxing's famed and intangible P4P list of fighters.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Whilst he's a very very good boxer,he does not have the resume to be P4P, Absolutely not! And I believe Zab won their first fight and the Karmazin fight was close too. NO WAY p4p imo.
Well I am about to open up a complete title wave of controversy... But RING Magazine has Calzaghe #8 and Hatton #10
Cory has a better resume than both ;)
I don't know bro,I like Spinks style although I've yet to see the Mayorga fight but JC's beaten some older former champs and a HUUUUUUUUGE % of people thought Jeff would dut him off easily. Hatton,again,some decent names like Maussa,Collazio,Urango who are as good as the ones on Spinks resume and add Tszyu too. And both JC and RH are undefeated. If Spinks beat Taylor,boy he would CERTAINLY be in my top 10. That would be an amazing win.
And believe me I'm not picking on Ricky, I am a big fan of his **** I LAUGH EVERYTIME I SAY THAT WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THUNK IT LET ALONE ME********** 8) ;D But Spinks gets no respect and I'll put his resume up against any of his contemporaries, Joe Calzaghe has be a little tweeked these days, but Making a living off of Tszyu and Lacy dont get you PFP, when Spinks beat Mayorga, Judah, Karmazin. they were all the ducks nutz and at the top of their games when he beat them ;)
dead on.
have your cc
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozensolid_702
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Whilst he's a very very good boxer,he does not have the resume to be P4P, Absolutely not! And I believe Zab won their first fight and the Karmazin fight was close too. NO WAY p4p imo.
Well I am about to open up a complete title wave of controversy... But RING Magazine has Calzaghe #8 and Hatton #10
Cory has a better resume than both ;)
I don't know bro,I like Spinks style although I've yet to see the Mayorga fight but JC's beaten some older former champs and a HUUUUUUUUGE % of people thought Jeff would dut him off easily. Hatton,again,some decent names like Maussa,Collazio,Urango who are as good as the ones on Spinks resume and add Tszyu too. And both JC and RH are undefeated. If Spinks beat Taylor,boy he would CERTAINLY be in my top 10. That would be an amazing win.
And believe me I'm not picking on Ricky, I am a big fan of his **** I LAUGH EVERYTIME I SAY THAT WHO WOULD HAVE EVER THUNK IT LET ALONE ME********** 8) ;D But Spinks gets no respect and I'll put his resume up against any of his contemporaries, Joe Calzaghe has be a little tweeked these days, but Making a living off of Tszyu and Lacy dont get you PFP, when Spinks beat Mayorga, Judah, Karmazin. they were all the ducks nutz and at the top of their games when he beat them ;)
dead on.
have your cc
Thanks :coolclick: #215
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
wow this thread is getting some amazing responses. And really showing the knowledge we have around this boxing forum :)
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Lets just look at these facts here.
I know a lot of people don't like Cory Spinks, but I was just looking up his record and I noticed a few things.
He has taken a lot of risks that fighters these days and right now aren't taking, and won't take. And is also very avoided. I know a lot of people don't dig his style but check this out.
He fought this guy named pichirillo or something in his hole town of italy after being robbed in the first fight and took it. And he won the title.
In his first title defense he fights Rocardo Mayorga who was THE HOTTEST THING in boxing at that moment and thought of as somewhat invincible and he took him on and he outboxed him and became the Undisputed Welterweight Champ.
For his FIRST defense of that belt he takes on Zab Judah who was coming off a first round win on the same card Spinks won that Undisputed title in. (granted it was against some journeyman but still impressive)
His fight with Judah was close with both of them hitting the deck, but he beat Zab Judah that night regardless.
Now Spinks won the fight in the eyes of some clearly enough that he didnt HAVE to rematch Zab Judah. But he did it anyway(a risk most fighters don't seem to be taking nowadays)
And he fights him and he gets knocked out.
But as his comeback fight, he moves up to 154 to fight this Made in Hell guy who had just beat Kassim Ouma and knocked him down twice.
Spinks fights him after coming off a knockout loss and moving up in weight to face "arguably" the best 154 pounder up there(Ouma the exception, but he beat Ouma prior to that fight)
And Spinks in his first fight at 154 beats the BEST 154 pounder out there at the time.
And now in his next fight, nobody at 154 wants to fight Spinks because he is very avoided(would have liked to see him face Kassim Ouma or Simms though)
But what does Spinks do? In his very next fight he moves up to 160 to face the Undisputed Middle Weight Champ in the champs backyard basically in his FIRST FIGHT at 160.
So lets look at Spinks last few opponents(discounting the easy one in between)
Pichirillo
Mayorga
Judah
Judah
Karmazin
Taylor
That's quite a resume and considering he has beaten everyone on that list at least once(Taylor the exception) I think Spinks deserves a lot of credit, when you put up his last fights and the times he took them against some other ones today.
People say p4p is not only about who you fight but the risks you take, risk rewards. And fans are always complaining that their fighters dont take the risks to be considered p4p.
Spinks has taken those huge risks and payed both ways because of it(the good and the bad) and he's still up there fighting bigger challenges and bigger risks. if that isnt p4p I don't know what is.
Don't flame me here, but what do you think?
And Hulk I know you're lurking, say something other then "Mayorga got robbed" or "spinks runs like a girl" if you're going to respond ;)
Opinions anyone?
I have read your post for a while, your an educated member of the forum who knows better than to write something like this.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Lets just look at these facts here.
I know a lot of people don't like Cory Spinks, but I was just looking up his record and I noticed a few things.
He has taken a lot of risks that fighters these days and right now aren't taking, and won't take. And is also very avoided. I know a lot of people don't dig his style but check this out.
He fought this guy named pichirillo or something in his hole town of italy after being robbed in the first fight and took it. And he won the title.
In his first title defense he fights Rocardo Mayorga who was THE HOTTEST THING in boxing at that moment and thought of as somewhat invincible and he took him on and he outboxed him and became the Undisputed Welterweight Champ.
For his FIRST defense of that belt he takes on Zab Judah who was coming off a first round win on the same card Spinks won that Undisputed title in. (granted it was against some journeyman but still impressive)
His fight with Judah was close with both of them hitting the deck, but he beat Zab Judah that night regardless.
Now Spinks won the fight in the eyes of some clearly enough that he didnt HAVE to rematch Zab Judah. But he did it anyway(a risk most fighters don't seem to be taking nowadays)
And he fights him and he gets knocked out.
But as his comeback fight, he moves up to 154 to fight this Made in Hell guy who had just beat Kassim Ouma and knocked him down twice.
Spinks fights him after coming off a knockout loss and moving up in weight to face "arguably" the best 154 pounder up there(Ouma the exception, but he beat Ouma prior to that fight)
And Spinks in his first fight at 154 beats the BEST 154 pounder out there at the time.
And now in his next fight, nobody at 154 wants to fight Spinks because he is very avoided(would have liked to see him face Kassim Ouma or Simms though)
But what does Spinks do? In his very next fight he moves up to 160 to face the Undisputed Middle Weight Champ in the champs backyard basically in his FIRST FIGHT at 160.
So lets look at Spinks last few opponents(discounting the easy one in between)
Pichirillo
Mayorga
Judah
Judah
Karmazin
Taylor
That's quite a resume and considering he has beaten everyone on that list at least once(Taylor the exception) I think Spinks deserves a lot of credit, when you put up his last fights and the times he took them against some other ones today.
People say p4p is not only about who you fight but the risks you take, risk rewards. And fans are always complaining that their fighters dont take the risks to be considered p4p.
Spinks has taken those huge risks and payed both ways because of it(the good and the bad) and he's still up there fighting bigger challenges and bigger risks. if that isnt p4p I don't know what is.
Don't flame me here, but what do you think?
And Hulk I know you're lurking, say something other then "Mayorga got robbed" or "spinks runs like a girl" if you're going to respond ;)
Opinions anyone?
:coolclick:#353 Maj, I been fighting the never ending Cory Spinks battle, I rate him very high, while most people are judgemental of his entrances and dramatic post fight emotional displays, instead of his talent and ability
he is currently top 5 easily in Boxing skill alone, not to mention heart and courage for willing to fight anybody anywere...
He clearly beat Mayorga, Judah the 1st time and Karmazin 1st shot at 154..... Cory has the goods and when he upsets Taylor to be the Linear Middleweight Champ he'll get his Official PFP ranking and people will be talking about his skill, like he just arrived even though he has been good all along ;)
The thing is though JT that if you credit him with scoring a narrow points victory over Mayorga, then logically you'd have to put Oscar higher for emphatically destroying Mayorga. Plus Oscar has a better resume than Cory and came closer to beating Floyd than anyone in the past 3 years or so.
I'd say De La Hoya deserves to be higher than Cory.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
wow this thread is getting some amazing responses. And really showing the knowledge we have around this boxing forum :)
Yeah but even if people don't think Spinks is P4P,it doesnt mean they have less knowledge. Bil made an excellent point,it was a narrow win over Mayorga,narrow over Karmazin who's best win was over an unfocussed Kassim Ouma and a "win" over Judah,when alot of people thought Judah won the first fight. Judah also KTFO Spinks in the second fight.
He has skills but lets not get overexcited just yet. He's fought decent fighters,but he hasn't won any of his big fights convincingly. No way P4P imo,not yet and may be not ever.
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Lets just look at these facts here.
I know a lot of people don't like Cory Spinks, but I was just looking up his record and I noticed a few things.
He has taken a lot of risks that fighters these days and right now aren't taking, and won't take. And is also very avoided. I know a lot of people don't dig his style but check this out.
He fought this guy named pichirillo or something in his hole town of italy after being robbed in the first fight and took it. And he won the title.
In his first title defense he fights Rocardo Mayorga who was THE HOTTEST THING in boxing at that moment and thought of as somewhat invincible and he took him on and he outboxed him and became the Undisputed Welterweight Champ.
For his FIRST defense of that belt he takes on Zab Judah who was coming off a first round win on the same card Spinks won that Undisputed title in. (granted it was against some journeyman but still impressive)
His fight with Judah was close with both of them hitting the deck, but he beat Zab Judah that night regardless.
Now Spinks won the fight in the eyes of some clearly enough that he didnt HAVE to rematch Zab Judah. But he did it anyway(a risk most fighters don't seem to be taking nowadays)
And he fights him and he gets knocked out.
But as his comeback fight, he moves up to 154 to fight this Made in Hell guy who had just beat Kassim Ouma and knocked him down twice.
Spinks fights him after coming off a knockout loss and moving up in weight to face "arguably" the best 154 pounder up there(Ouma the exception, but he beat Ouma prior to that fight)
And Spinks in his first fight at 154 beats the BEST 154 pounder out there at the time.
And now in his next fight, nobody at 154 wants to fight Spinks because he is very avoided(would have liked to see him face Kassim Ouma or Simms though)
But what does Spinks do? In his very next fight he moves up to 160 to face the Undisputed Middle Weight Champ in the champs backyard basically in his FIRST FIGHT at 160.
So lets look at Spinks last few opponents(discounting the easy one in between)
Pichirillo
Mayorga
Judah
Judah
Karmazin
Taylor
That's quite a resume and considering he has beaten everyone on that list at least once(Taylor the exception) I think Spinks deserves a lot of credit, when you put up his last fights and the times he took them against some other ones today.
People say p4p is not only about who you fight but the risks you take, risk rewards. And fans are always complaining that their fighters dont take the risks to be considered p4p.
Spinks has taken those huge risks and payed both ways because of it(the good and the bad) and he's still up there fighting bigger challenges and bigger risks. if that isnt p4p I don't know what is.
Don't flame me here, but what do you think?
And Hulk I know you're lurking, say something other then "Mayorga got robbed" or "spinks runs like a girl" if you're going to respond ;)
Opinions anyone?
:coolclick:#353 Maj, I been fighting the never ending Cory Spinks battle, I rate him very high, while most people are judgemental of his entrances and dramatic post fight emotional displays, instead of his talent and ability
he is currently top 5 easily in Boxing skill alone, not to mention heart and courage for willing to fight anybody anywere...
He clearly beat Mayorga, Judah the 1st time and Karmazin 1st shot at 154..... Cory has the goods and when he upsets Taylor to be the Linear Middleweight Champ he'll get his Official PFP ranking and people will be talking about his skill, like he just arrived even though he has been good all along ;)
The thing is though JT that if you credit him with scoring a narrow points victory over Mayorga, then logically you'd have to put Oscar higher for emphatically destroying Mayorga. Plus Oscar has a better resume than Cory and came closer to beating Floyd than anyone in the past 3 years or so.
I'd say De La Hoya deserves to be higher than Cory.
Then you could say that Oscar fought Mayorga at 154 after Trinidad had already mopped the floor with him at 160 and that Spinks fought a prime Mayorga at 147 during the time that he was the hottest thing in boxing couldn't you?
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
you'd have to put Oscar higher for emphatically destroying Mayorga. Plus Oscar has a better resume than Cory and came closer to beating Floyd than anyone in the past 3 years or so.
I'd say De La Hoya deserves to be higher than Cory.
Not at all........
Spinks beat a Prime Mayorga
Delahoya beat a "Ruined by Tito" Mayorga
Since 03 Delahoya is 2 wins-3 losses
Since 03 Spinks is 6 wins-1 loss won... Went to Piccirillo backyard in Italy and won the IBF Welterweight belt, Unified against the Unstopppable Mayorga and became Undisputed Linear Welterweight Champ....Also moved up to 154 and fought the dangerous Roman Karmazin and became IBF light middleweight Champ, Pretty good if you ask me... Like I said I'll put up Spinks resume against any of his contemporaries...
Re: Should Spinks be p4p? (hear me out here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
you'd have to put Oscar higher for emphatically destroying Mayorga. Plus Oscar has a better resume than Cory and came closer to beating Floyd than anyone in the past 3 years or so.
I'd say De La Hoya deserves to be higher than Cory.
Not at all........
Spinks beat a Prime Mayorga
Delahoya beat a "Ruined by Tito" Mayorga
Since 03 Delahoya is 2 wins-3 losses
Since 03 Spinks is 6 wins-1 loss won... Went to Piccirillo backyard in Italy and won the IBF Welterweight belt, Unified against the Unstopppable Mayorga and became Undisputed Linear Welterweight Champ....Also moved up to 154 and fought the dangerous Roman Karmazin and became IBF light middleweight Champ, Pretty good if you ask me... Like I said I'll put up Spinks resume against any of his contemporaries...
It's all too easy to say a fighter is 'ruined' after a big loss but you certainly can't say for certain that even a 'prime' (lmao) Mayorga would have posed a bigger challenge for De La Hoya. Oscar was just technically a far superior fighter and having a solid chin and the ability to handle sustained pressure (something Vernon Forrest seemed to not be able to handle) allowed him to bully and beat down the woefully inferior fighter in a few brutal rounds.
Likewise Oscar's losses came at higher weights to p4p greats. Losing to Mosely twice with the second fight most people seeing him the winner was certainly no worse than Spinks going 1-1 with the talented but notoriously underachieving Zab Judah.
And losing to all time great and then undisputed Bernard Hopkins is certainly no worse than should Cory get knocked out by Jermain Taylor, as and let's be honest here, is virtually gauranteed to happen.
I'm not disrespecting Spinks here at all, all I'm saying is that in a p4p top 20, where I think both these guys figure, I'd probably be favouring Oscar as being slightly above Cory.
Of course this can all change tomorrow, but personally I expect Spinks to be knocked out inside 8 rounds and then this won't even be a debate. Oscar will be above Spinks, probably around 12 or 13 p4p with Spinks being just in the top 20.
In fact if Spinks does get stopped by Taylor, you could even argue that he would be below Kasim Ouma, but let's not go there just yet :P
