Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Where would you put him top 10? It's just,I now have about 7 of his fights so am able to assess him properly.He's slow,methodical,but everything he did was thunderingly powerful! I mean his jab would knock most guys heads off!! IMO,he would annihilate Wlad! I think alot of guys were scared even before they got into the ring with Liston,that factor which Duran had and few others have managed to attain,beating a fighter before they get into the ring through fear.
i hate doing lists because i suck at them but i'll try and do one.
Heavyweights
1 Muhammad Ali
2 Joe Louis
3 Larry Holmes
4 Jack Johnson
5 Rocky Marciano
6 George Foreman
7 Lennox Lewis
8 Evander Holyfield
9 Mike Tyson
10 Joe Frazier
Sonny Liston would be 11 on my list i rated Frazier over Liston because of his victory over Ali Quarry and very tough Bonavena.
But his jab is one of the best i've seen he ahd very strong jab and he also taught Foreman everything he knows.
I don't mean to quibble with your list, and I know how subjective they are etc. but how can you not have Jack Dempsey or Gene Tunney on there?
Tunney i could of put him there i guess but im not all up to date on boxing that old only know about him vs Dempsey and Dempsey well i could of mentioned him maybe instead of Frazier i guess.
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Where would you put him top 10? It's just,I now have about 7 of his fights so am able to assess him properly.He's slow,methodical,but everything he did was thunderingly powerful! I mean his jab would knock most guys heads off!! IMO,he would annihilate Wlad! I think alot of guys were scared even before they got into the ring with Liston,that factor which Duran had and few others have managed to attain,beating a fighter before they get into the ring through fear.
i hate doing lists because i suck at them but i'll try and do one.
Heavyweights
1 Muhammad Ali
2 Joe Louis
3 Larry Holmes
4 Jack Johnson
5 Rocky Marciano
6 George Foreman
7 Lennox Lewis
8 Evander Holyfield
9 Mike Tyson
10 Joe Frazier
Sonny Liston would be 11 on my list i rated Frazier over Liston because of his victory over Ali Quarry and very tough Bonavena.
But his jab is one of the best i've seen he ahd very strong jab and he also taught Foreman everything he knows.
I don't mean to quibble with your list, and I know how subjective they are etc. but how can you not have Jack Dempsey or Gene Tunney on there?
Tunney i could of put him there i guess but im not all up to date on boxing that old only know about him vs Dempsey and Dempsey well i could of mentioned him maybe instead of Frazier i guess.
CC. I meant no disrespect, I was only curious. I don't know terribly much about boxing that old either, its just that almost everything I've read/heard has those guys in the top 10.
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Where would you put him top 10? It's just,I now have about 7 of his fights so am able to assess him properly.He's slow,methodical,but everything he did was thunderingly powerful! I mean his jab would knock most guys heads off!! IMO,he would annihilate Wlad! I think alot of guys were scared even before they got into the ring with Liston,that factor which Duran had and few others have managed to attain,beating a fighter before they get into the ring through fear.
i hate doing lists because i suck at them but i'll try and do one.
Heavyweights
1 Muhammad Ali
2 Joe Louis
3 Larry Holmes
4 Jack Johnson
5 Rocky Marciano
6 George Foreman
7 Lennox Lewis
8 Evander Holyfield
9 Mike Tyson
10 Joe Frazier
Sonny Liston would be 11 on my list i rated Frazier over Liston because of his victory over Ali Quarry and very tough Bonavena.
But his jab is one of the best i've seen he ahd very strong jab and he also taught Foreman everything he knows.
I don't mean to quibble with your list, and I know how subjective they are etc. but how can you not have Jack Dempsey or Gene Tunney on there?
Tunney i could of put him there i guess but im not all up to date on boxing that old only know about him vs Dempsey and Dempsey well i could of mentioned him maybe instead of Frazier i guess.
CC. I meant no disrespect, I was only curious. I don't know terribly much about boxing that old either, its just that almost everything I've read/heard has those guys in the top 10.
:coolclick: back i will have to read up on him and have look at his record but i just had a glance and i see he beat the great Harry Greb wow.
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
he beats all heavys of today. none of them could handle his power
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
Liston was everything I like in a fighter and he ranks above Tyson on my personal favorites list at number one.
If Liston fought today he would do just fine. He may mess his pants when Valuev came lurching down the aisle though...
Briggs, Maskaev and Chagaev would all taste defeat by Liston's hand. Klitschko is another matter but I'd like to think Sonny puts him down too.
Sam Peter would get dealt with
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
Nobody ever really saw the best Liston. He came into the sport quite late, he was one of the most avoided fighters there have ever been - on his way up, nobody wanted their fighter in the ring with Liston (they all claimed it was because of his undoubted mob connection - he even worked as a strike breaker for a while (he would go up to a picket line and simply beat everyone up until they called the strike off). When he got arrested it took 5 officers to do it.
By the time he won the title, he was already well past his best (the dispute over is age was actually because Sonny did not know how old he was - one of 25 children) I think he may well have been 36 or 37 when he fought Clay. Later, he did train with a young Foreman and George always says that Liston taught him to fight.
He was 6'1", which is not massive by todays standards, but he was HUGE. His knuckle circumference was 15 inches. This was a big man - like Tyson is a big 5'10".
His power was enormous - he literally knocked people out with his jab. Huge left hook, as he was probably a converted southpaw. Great chin and - despite what people say - a big heart (he fought 7 rounds with Marty Marshall with a broken jaw.
He would cut a swathe though today's heavyweights like a Sherman tank through a cornfield, This was one seriously tough guy. I really do not think anyone today could stand in front of him and he woud crush people like Wlad and Briggs very quickly. Ironically, someone like Chris Byrd would give him the most problems as he sometimes struggled to pin down 'runners'.
He had a dry sense of humour too - after leaving Chuck Wepner needeing 68 stitches he was asked whether Wepner was the bravest man he had ever met, Liston quipped "Nope, but his manager sure is"
His tragedy is not that he is so underrated in the ring, it is the fact that he never ever had a chance in life.
Grinding poverty, a violent and abusive father, drifting into petty and then serious crime. Prison turned him into a career criminal, his mob bosses and managers who screwed him, being avoided as a fighter, meeting Clay, being avoided again afterwards, back to poverty and then his very mysterious death. As someone said "Sonny Liston died the day he was born"
Rest in Peace, Sonny.
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
I think he is a little too small for his style nowadays especially in the 90's he would still do quite well though be in the top 5 at least.
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
He was definitely a swatter.I say he would hold one of the four belts.
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Where would you put him top 10? It's just,I now have about 7 of his fights so am able to assess him properly.He's slow,methodical,but everything he did was thunderingly powerful! I mean his jab would knock most guys heads off!! IMO,he would annihilate Wlad! I think alot of guys were scared even before they got into the ring with Liston,that factor which Duran had and few others have managed to attain,beating a fighter before they get into the ring through fear.
i hate doing lists because i suck at them but i'll try and do one.
Heavyweights
1 Muhammad Ali
2 Joe Louis
3 Larry Holmes
4 Jack Johnson
5 Rocky Marciano
6 George Foreman
7 Lennox Lewis
8 Evander Holyfield
9 Mike Tyson
10 Joe Frazier
Sonny Liston would be 11 on my list i rated Frazier over Liston because of his victory over Ali Quarry and very tough Bonavena.
But his jab is one of the best i've seen he ahd very strong jab and he also taught Foreman everything he knows.
I don't mean to quibble with your list, and I know how subjective they are etc. but how can you not have Jack Dempsey or Gene Tunney on there?
dempey was good and i love him, very ferocious but lacked defence, he would get his a$$ handed to him by ali, louis, tyson, foreman etc
and tunney? what has he done except outpoint dempsey?
ps...ice colds list is opne of the better lists ive seen cc to u :D
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
Thanks mate :coolclick: back.
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
if ali had never come along he would be in the top 10--he was fearless and nobody was gonna beat him. because of ali he is thought of as only a villian and is completely overshadowed
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
I disagree to a point with Game... I think that both Tunney and Johnson would have been too clever for Liston... those are exactly the type of fighters he would have struggled against. Dempsey would have been a brutal fight... my money would be on Dempsey (although Listons size may have been a deciding factor). If Liston were at his peak today I don't think there is much doubt that he would totally dominate the heavyweight scene.
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
Liston like foreman would have done alot more if not for clay/ali
Liston would do ok even with todays massive heavies
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
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Originally Posted by Dav
I disagree to a point with Game... I think that both Tunney and Johnson would have been too clever for Liston... those are exactly the type of fighters he would have struggled against. Dempsey would have been a brutal fight... my money would be on Dempsey (although Listons size may have been a deciding factor). If Liston were at his peak today I don't think there is much doubt that he would totally dominate the heavyweight scene.
Quite possibly. I suppose theres no point in debating too much cuz we will never know but I just think guys that small wouldnt be able to absorb the power from a guy like Liston even if they could keep him off for a few rounds.
I agree if Sonny was around today he would rule things . Wvlad would be his toughest challenge based on his physical advantages but judging on the guys who have knocked out Wvald , I think Liston could aswel .
Re: Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?
u have to remember that back then they had big heavyweights who were 250 pounds and over 6'7, but they were journey men! 6'1 is average for a heavyweight and he was a big 6'1, had massive hands and feet and was deadly powerful! some of you guys are talking too much about 'they would have been too small for todays heavyweights'....lemme get one thing straight, todays heavyweights are pussies. they cant fight like dempsey or liston for shit. size is overatted. i mean dempsey would have droppped guys like wlad and peters no problem. and the guy that said dempsey had a crap defense....he needs to watch more dempsey fights.
i have liston in my top 5. a very underrated fighter!
