Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
prime lennox destorys all of them toooooooooooooooo big and skillful they would hhave never seen the likes of him
correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lewis get his a** sparked out 2 times?......Marciano would push his endurance farther than any fighter ever pushed him...and we know Lennox was susceptible to the occasional lazy streak....I personally don't see him beating Marciano at all...Marciano KO'd guys just as big as him....
Not same weight come on he took big bombs which would ko most hws from any era Marciano would be like 60 pounds smaller and 7 inches smaller Lewis would crush Marciano.
[/quote]Please.....Rocky hits harder than any HW currently fighting today......Even Ali told Rocky to let up...and Marciano wasn't throwing.....don't let weight fool you....Marciano used every ounce of his body weight when he hit you...every time!!!! Today's HW's don't have the heart to do that.....
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
that's all IMO...
Some of that I agree with, BUT PBF beating Duran and Leonard?! ;D ::** Hell Mosley would have a tuff time with both those guys and still lose.
mosley easily beats them..but i wasn't talking about SRL rather good ole benny...
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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
that's all IMO...
Perhaps in some cases your right..
But just for the sake of arguement
Hagler gives Jones , bernard and toney a great deal of trouble..Even though i love them all
Leonard ..I dont know that floyd beats him or not.. But to say they destroy the old timers is way off
prime lennox destorys all of them toooooooooooooooo big and skillful they would hhave never seen the likes of him
Lewis sucked
If it wasnt for his size,nobody would know his name.Plodding around the ring like a drunk.One step,two step,throw a couple of punches,think about it,one step two step,think about it,repeat as needed,unless a minor light midget takes your head off because you got cocky.
I couldnt stand Holyfield either,but at least his legs werent tree trunks just waiting to be planted
The whole reason the division sucks,its plodding lumbering beasts who suck at boxing,and puffed up cruiserweights
So you can either watch a guy,who cant knock out anyone,or you can wait until the one big punch opens up
I loathe Tyson,but in his prime he could do both
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
that's all IMO...
Your point is well taken but you saying all current fighters would roll through the old timers makes you sound as naive as people who say all old timers would roll through the current crop. In reality, it would be about half and half as to who would win (with the exception of the REALLY old timers like from the 20s and earlier, who's technique was absolute garbage). People who automatically assume the 4 greats of the 80s beat everyone of today's era are dumb, just as someone who says Floyd, Shane, Roy, and Hopkins beat all who came before them.
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
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Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
prime lennox destorys all of them toooooooooooooooo big and skillful they would hhave never seen the likes of him
correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Lewis get his a** sparked out 2 times?......Marciano would push his endurance farther than any fighter ever pushed him...and we know Lennox was susceptible to the occasional lazy streak....I personally don't see him beating Marciano at all...Marciano KO'd guys just as big as him....
Not same weight come on he took big bombs which would ko most hws from any era Marciano would be like 60 pounds smaller and 7 inches smaller Lewis would crush Marciano.
Please.....Rocky hits harder than any HW currently fighting today......Even Ali told Rocky to let up...and Marciano wasn't throwing.....don't let weight fool you....Marciano used every ounce of his body weight when he hit you...every time!!!! Today's HW's don't have the heart to do that.....
[/quote] Maybe he does maybe he doesn't but Lewis would still kill Marciano imo too big too strong.
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by Hulk
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
that's all IMO...
Some of that I agree with, BUT PBF beating Duran and Leonard?! ;D ::** Hell Mosley would have a tuff time with both those guys and still lose.
mosley easily beats them..but i wasn't talking about SRL rather good ole benny...
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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
that's all IMO...
Perhaps in some cases your right..
But just for the sake of arguement
Hagler gives Jones , bernard and toney a great deal of trouble..Even though i love them all
Leonard ..I dont know that floyd beats him or not.. But to say they destroy the old timers is way off
prime lennox destorys all of them toooooooooooooooo big and skillful they would hhave never seen the likes of him
Lewis sucked
If it wasnt for his size,nobody would know his name.Plodding around the ring like a drunk.One step,two step,throw a couple of punches,think about it,one step two step,think about it,repeat as needed,unless a minor light midget takes your head off because you got cocky.
I couldnt stand Holyfield either,but at least his legs werent tree trunks just waiting to be planted
The whole reason the division sucks,its plodding lumbering beasts who suck at boxing,and puffed up cruiserweights
So you can either watch a guy,who cant knock out anyone,or you can wait until the one big punch opens up
I loathe Tyson,but in his prime he could do both
::**
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
that's all IMO...
Some of that I agree with, BUT PBF beating Duran and Leonard?! ;D ::** Hell Mosley would have a tuff time with both those guys and still lose.
mosley easily beats them..but i wasn't talking about SRL rather good ole benny...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
that's all IMO...
Perhaps in some cases your right..
But just for the sake of arguement
Hagler gives Jones , bernard and toney a great deal of trouble..Even though i love them all
Leonard ..I dont know that floyd beats him or not.. But to say they destroy the old timers is way off
prime lennox destorys all of them toooooooooooooooo big and skillful they would hhave never seen the likes of him
Lewis sucked
If it wasnt for his size,nobody would know his name.Plodding around the ring like a drunk.One step,two step,throw a couple of punches,think about it,one step two step,think about it,repeat as needed,unless a minor light midget takes your head off because you got cocky.
I couldnt stand Holyfield either,but at least his legs werent tree trunks just waiting to be planted
The whole reason the division sucks,its plodding lumbering beasts who suck at boxing,and puffed up cruiserweights
So you can either watch a guy,who cant knock out anyone,or you can wait until the one big punch opens up
I loathe Tyson,but in his prime he could do both
::**
In all honesty the division has sucked for quite awhile
The last guy who looked really interesting was Bowe,and he ate himself/crazied himself out of it.
Its boring,its either slow and plodding,or fast,with no hope of a knockout
The super heavy weights like Lewis cant get up on their bicycle
The puffed up cruiserweights cant knock out anyone
Cmon Valuev and Briggs got titles,I can go to the bathroom,pee,wash my hands and get back to my seat in the time it takes for one of their punches to land
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
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Originally Posted by skyler
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
that's all IMO...
Your point is well taken but you saying all current fighters would roll through the old timers makes you sound as naive as people who say all old timers would roll through the current crop. In reality, it would be about half and half as to who would win (with the exception of the REALLY old timers like from the 20s and earlier, who's technique was absolute garbage). People who automatically assume the 4 greats of the 80s beat everyone of today's era are dumb, just as someone who says Floyd, Shane, Roy, and Hopkins beat all who came before them.
nah i'm not saying its automatic..i'm saying that everyone usually gives the older guys the nod...i think shane mosley would beat duran by late stoppage..and i think roy crushes all of them not meaning he kayos them..the ones that survive like hagler, would lose a one sided decision same as crush IMO...
see its funny like someone mentioned that marciano, hits harder than lewis...marciano was good but he'd be crushed by lewis..lennox was too big and had skills he was just a guy in there moving around he had a real jab...but i agree with whoever ssays that holmes would have beaten him..i think larry had the best jab ever...
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
Mosley would beat Duran by late round stoppage ?
Are you still going to AA ?
Mosley doesn''t have enough power to take out Manos de Piedra
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
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Originally Posted by DarkDestroyer
Mosley would beat Duran by late round stoppage ?
Are you still going to AA ?
Mosley doesn''t have enough power to take out Manos de Piedra
i guess that's why he stopped 32 out of 34 opponents at that weight
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
Name me one outstanding fighter he KO ed at LW or Jnr welter ?
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
morrales, molina, rivera, leija,
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
Oh yeah, all time greats, no doubt about it
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
so who were these ATGs that duran beat at lightweight?
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
that's all IMO...
You have got to stop sniffing the Ajax!
;D
Re: Why do old era fighters get an automatic pass?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Every time i see lists of atgs and hypothetical match-ups between new and old era fighters a lot of people automatically give the older fighter all of these passes..like oh he had a great chin, he could punch, he was a warrior, etc etc and say that well the new guys don't posess any of these attributes and give the old guy the nod...
Well IF they were they were. Videos don't lie theirs footage on these fighters and if someone feels they had better attributes then a current fighter that's just how THEY see it.
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, would all be beaten easily by lewis and holfield
Heres my issue your choice of words here.
EASILY...... I'm willing to bet you EVERYTHING I own in my life that neither LEwis or Holy would beat any of those guys EASILY.
Now can they beat them? Sure they can anythings possible.
But you gotta undesrtand those old school fighters not only did they fight their opponents they fought entire countries.
Ali vs. White America in some ways.
Louis vs. Gemrmany
Johnson vs. USA
In the words of Tyson 'They cut from a different cloth'
For what it's worth I think Lewis had a better chin then Johnson & Demspey.
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
foster,moore,spinks would all be crushed by RJJ
Again choice of words (but's your opinion)
Crushed.... I think RJJ beats all those 3 on any given day.
Moore & Foster would give him the most trouble.
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
monzon,hagler,ketchel,fullmer, would all be beaten by hopkins,jones and toney
I think Hopkins best chances would be against Fullmer & Ketchel.
Monzon he would be too much for ANYONE at Middle.
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
ortiz, leonard and duran would be beaten by PBF and mosley
PBF and Mosley could possibly beat SRL.
Duran & Ortiz would be whole different story.
