Re: What's more devistating....
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Yeah but being knocked out twice has permanently sealed Lennox Lewis' reputation as a glass jawed champion.
It's done the same for Wladimir.
If they would have been outboxed and beaten down but not stopped if anything it enhances their reputation. Sam Peter for example, a zero skill brawler but considered the toughest man in the heavyweight division.
Think about this Bilbo.....some guys get sparked....like Lewis and can comeback and be great, it's very hard for a guy who gets totally outboxed and dominated for 12 rounds to come back and be as good as they used to be or better.
Yeah looking back Tyson was due for a loss but still that loss took so much away from him and how scared other fighters were of him....it gave the BLUE PRINT to everyone....that's what is so damaging about it, other fighters look at the fight and take notes and try their had at their strategy
Re: What's more devistating....
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Originally Posted by hitmandonny
I believe a fighter can come back from a KO loss and forge a perfectly respectable and succesful career, for example Johnny Ruiz after Tua and Marco Antonio Barrerra after Junior Jones.
However, i feel it is much more difficult to come back from having ur skills revealed to be sub standard or jus insufficient. i.e. Trinidad will not b back after Wright, Tarver will never regain his rep. after Hopkins
I'd agree they probably have a better shot at coming back. I mean Jeff Lacy will unlikely be seen as a major force at 168 again but then I can't think of many fighters who get sparked out who then go onto achieve great things in their careers. Lewis and Nigel Benn are the only two recent exceptions that come immediately to hand.
A knockout loss early on isn't so bad, David Haye is an example of that but even with him his chin and stamina are always going to be seen as an issue and once a fighter has been knocked out the blueprint is there for it to happen again.
I mean it's interesting that a lot of these guys who got caught got caught more than once, Jones Jr, Lewis, W Klitschko, N Benn etc.
Re: What's more devistating....
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Originally Posted by Lyle
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Yeah but being knocked out twice has permanently sealed Lennox Lewis' reputation as a glass jawed champion.
It's done the same for Wladimir.
If they would have been outboxed and beaten down but not stopped if anything it enhances their reputation. Sam Peter for example, a zero skill brawler but considered the toughest man in the heavyweight division.
Think about this Bilbo.....some guys get sparked....like Lewis and can comeback and be great, it's very hard for a guy who gets totally outboxed and dominated for 12 rounds to come back and be as good as they used to be or better.
Yeah looking back Tyson was due for a loss but still that loss took so much away from him and how scared other fighters were of him....it gave the BLUE PRINT to everyone....that's what is so damaging about it, other fighters look at the fight and take notes and try their had at their strategy
I guess if you are talking of freak one punch knockouts where the better fighter was clearly on top until they got caught then yes, but how often have we ever seen that?
Lennox Lewis, Herol Graham, and I can't really think of any others. All the others were getting a beatdown as well.
Re: What's more devistating....
My vote goes to dominated in extended period, because a stoppage could be from a lucky punch but complete control of the rounds is somethin that is more than just sheer luck.
Re: What's more devistating....
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
I guess if you are talking of freak one punch knockouts where the better fighter was clearly on top until they got caught then yes, but how often have we ever seen that?
Lennox Lewis, Herol Graham, and I can't really think of any others. All the others were getting a beatdown as well.
I'm not talking "freak punch" well I guess it doesn't matter....I mean just as long as it ends with a guy getting sparked out early.
And I guess that has the same affect on SOME fighters, for example Golota: Lewis, Tyson, Brewster.....all early on punishment that really hurt him.
Re: What's more devistating....
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Originally Posted by Lyle
What made me think of this is thinking back to Mike Tyson-Buster Douglas and then thinking about Roy Jones Jr.-Antonio Tarver II.
What's more devistating to the fighter's aura and to you being a fan seeing your favorite fighter catch a beat down.
I think honestly seeing someone totally dominated is more taxing...Tyson's aura was just demolished...he had to start back at square one and he never came close to beating the calibre of opponents he beat before he lost to Douglas again.
I agree,to get caught is bad but to get outclassed is worst.
Re: What's more devistating....
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Originally Posted by USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS
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Originally Posted by Lyle
What made me think of this is thinking back to Mike Tyson-Buster Douglas and then thinking about Roy Jones Jr.-Antonio Tarver II.
What's more devistating to the fighter's aura and to you being a fan seeing your favorite fighter catch a beat down.
I think honestly seeing someone totally dominated is more taxing...Tyson's aura was just demolished...he had to start back at square one and he never came close to beating the calibre of opponents he beat before he lost to Douglas again.
I agree,to get caught is bad but to get outclassed is worst.
Thinking about this some more I think it really depends on the fighter. For a boxer like Floyd or Lennox Lewis to be outboxed and dominated for 12 rounds it would be a disaster because that means they have been bettered at their own game.
However for fighters such as Julio Caser Chavez, Micky Ward, Arturo Gatti and those kind of guys getting battered and soaking up loads of punishment is normal and doesn't detract from them as they are brawlers not boxers. For those guys an early one punch knockout probably does their reputation more damage as their main strengths are seen as their mental and physical toughness rather than their boxing skills.
Re: What's more devistating....
this question is so hard to answer because it is simply to the degree at which they are dominated.. what calzaghe did to lacy will forever effect the mindset of lacy.. on the other hand when corrie sanders cracked klitchko i think he hit him harder than he thought was possible and obviously changed his career, same with zab and kosta, it depends on the fighter on how it affects them..
i heard on wed. night fights a couple weeks ago about a fighter who lost his first 4 fights before becoming one of the best fighters ever.. O0
Re: What's more devistating....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
What made me think of this is thinking back to Mike Tyson-Buster Douglas and then thinking about Roy Jones Jr.-Antonio Tarver II.
What's more devistating to the fighter's aura and to you being a fan seeing your favorite fighter catch a beat down.
I think honestly seeing someone totally dominated is more taxing...Tyson's aura was just demolished...he had to start back at square one and he never came close to beating the calibre of opponents he beat before he lost to Douglas again.
a beating throughout a long fight is much much worse physically and mentally on a fighter than being stopped with one punch I think. When Hagler and Hearns fought that war in 1985 they both diminished physically after that fight regardless that Hagler won. But they were so good in 1985 that they still had enough after to beat Mugabi (Hagler) and Hearns (who beat a big list of fighters). One punch knockouts do not hurt a man physically that much, and mentally he can just say he was caught with a lucky punch. But a beating like the one Lloyd Honeyghan took against Starling or Tyson against Buster Douglas seems to do permanent damage to a mans psyche. Then it gets easier and easier to beat that person until soon he is beaten by guys who wouldn't have sparred him years before-like in the case of Kevin McBride beating Tyson. Incidentally Holyfield has taken several beatings and has done better than most guys in staying sharp. But we still do not know if Holyfield is good still or fighting the right opposition.
Re: What's more devistating....
Ive voted totally dominated because a one punch KO doesnt take it out of you as much as been beat up for 10 or 11 rounds these type of fight shorten careers.
Re: What's more devistating....
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Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Ive voted totally dominated because a one punch KO doesnt take it out of you as much as been beat up for 10 or 11 rounds these type of fight shorten careers.
I don't know man I mean Tszyu pretty much destroyed Zabs career
Re: What's more devistating....
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Ive voted totally dominated because a one punch KO doesnt take it out of you as much as been beat up for 10 or 11 rounds these type of fight shorten careers.
I don't know man I mean Tszyu pretty much destroyed Zabs career
not really..i don't think that's what did it...zab is a street urchin..and street urchin rely on their ego...zab believed he was the toughest man on the planet...any kind of loss would have done the same thing to judah because he can't handle an ass-whooping..period....
Re: What's more devistating....
Hmmm...If we had seen Zab thoroughly outclassed and outpointed would it not have been more damaging?
Re: What's more devistating....
There's one thing that's more devastating than a ko loss, or a 12 round domination, and that's the spelling of this thread title. It's driving me crazy! Lyle we know about the southern hospitality, and thats all well and good, but southern typing, spelling and grammar ain't welcome here.
Re: What's more devistating....
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Originally Posted by yoitsdan
There's one thing that's more devastating than a ko loss, or a 12 round domination, and that's the spelling of this thread title. It's driving me crazy! Lyle we know about the southern hospitality, and thats all well and good, but southern typing, spelling and grammar ain't welcome here.
the irony....
